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Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Mongo1958
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Para 3 Dark Blue G10 S110V (First Spyderco), PM2 Black G10 S45VN, Manix 2 LW Translucent Blue BD1N, Sage 5 LW S30V, Shaman G10 S30V, Tenacious C122BK SE LW, Native 5 LW SE S35VN, P4SE K390, Delica 4SE K390, Endela SE K390, Caribbean SE LC200N, Dragonfly 2 S30V (wife's first Spydie), Autonomy 2 Black LC200N DLC SE.
****John3:16****
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary?
Para 3 Dark Blue G10 S110V (First Spyderco), PM2 Black G10 S45VN, Manix 2 LW Translucent Blue BD1N, Sage 5 LW S30V, Shaman G10 S30V, Tenacious C122BK SE LW, Native 5 LW SE S35VN, P4SE K390, Delica 4SE K390, Endela SE K390, Caribbean SE LC200N, Dragonfly 2 S30V (wife's first Spydie), Autonomy 2 Black LC200N DLC SE.
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Im a big fan of the Manix G10 and LW. I bought the 15V version after waiting a few days after the drop. Seems like it wasnt to hard to get. I also like the PM2 but I decided to pass on the 15V and could have bought it many times. To me it seems there was more PM2's made than the Manix.
Im all in for the Shaman and I hope they made as many or more than the PM2
Im all in for the Shaman and I hope they made as many or more than the PM2
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
I personally prefer the Manix 2 LW over either the G10 Manix 2 or PM2.
For me, an even better Manix 2 would be a Sage 6 lightweight with caged ball bearing lock.
For me, an even better Manix 2 would be a Sage 6 lightweight with caged ball bearing lock.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
What's wild is when I bought my first one, the street price was something like $80 and I don't think that was much more than 10 years ago and has almost doubled in price. I remember reading that the Manix 2 was something of an experiment to sell a knife at a lower cost and higher volume, and I guess it still is about $30 cheaper than a Para 2. I wonder if that experiment is still ongoing or if it's actually cheaper to make a Manix 2, I would guess it's not about manufacturing cost because the Manix has so many more pieces to make and is significantly more finicky to assemble.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
Evil D wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:23 amWhat's wild is when I bought my first one, the street price was something like $80 and I don't think that was much more than 10 years ago and has almost doubled in price. I remember reading that the Manix 2 was something of an experiment to sell a knife at a lower cost and higher volume, and I guess it still is about $30 cheaper than a Para 2. I wonder if that experiment is still ongoing or if it's actually cheaper to make a Manix 2, I would guess it's not about manufacturing cost because the Manix has so many more pieces to make and is significantly more finicky to assemble.
I too have been curious on why Manix2 S30V & G-10 at $151.20 is $34.30 less than ParaMilitary2 S45VN & G-10 at $185.50. Is the price of the Manix2 artificially held down (to get more sales, etc.)? I figure ParaMilitary2 models far outsell the Manix2 models?
- I welcome dialog, as long as it remains cordial, constructive and is conducted in a civilized manner. - Titanic: Blood & Steel
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
RamZar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:43 amEvil D wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:23 amWhat's wild is when I bought my first one, the street price was something like $80 and I don't think that was much more than 10 years ago and has almost doubled in price. I remember reading that the Manix 2 was something of an experiment to sell a knife at a lower cost and higher volume, and I guess it still is about $30 cheaper than a Para 2. I wonder if that experiment is still ongoing or if it's actually cheaper to make a Manix 2, I would guess it's not about manufacturing cost because the Manix has so many more pieces to make and is significantly more finicky to assemble.
I too have been curious on why Manix2 S30V & G-10 at $151.20 is $34.30 less than ParaMilitary2 S45VN & G-10 at $185.50. Is the price of the Manix2 artificially held down (to get more sales, etc.)? I figure ParaMilitary2 models far outsell the Manix2 models?
Unless I'm misremembering it I believe there was a deliberate choice to keep the Manix 2 MSRP low, you might have to do some deep searching but I'm sure it's still here on the forum, probably around 10 years old.
All SE all the time since 2017
~David
~David
- WilliamMunny
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
The Manix has always just seemed like the best bang for the buck. Just look at the 15V run:Evil D wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:47 amRamZar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:43 amEvil D wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:23 amWhat's wild is when I bought my first one, the street price was something like $80 and I don't think that was much more than 10 years ago and has almost doubled in price. I remember reading that the Manix 2 was something of an experiment to sell a knife at a lower cost and higher volume, and I guess it still is about $30 cheaper than a Para 2. I wonder if that experiment is still ongoing or if it's actually cheaper to make a Manix 2, I would guess it's not about manufacturing cost because the Manix has so many more pieces to make and is significantly more finicky to assemble.
I too have been curious on why Manix2 S30V & G-10 at $151.20 is $34.30 less than ParaMilitary2 S45VN & G-10 at $185.50. Is the price of the Manix2 artificially held down (to get more sales, etc.)? I figure ParaMilitary2 models far outsell the Manix2 models?
Unless I'm misremembering it I believe there was a deliberate choice to keep the Manix 2 MSRP low, you might have to do some deep searching but I'm sure it's still here on the forum, probably around 10 years old.
Manix 2 - $225
PM2 - $292
Shaman - $387
Same size knife, same G-10, same steel but that’s a pretty significant price difference.
Endura AUS-8, Manix 2 S30V, Alcyone BD1N, PM2 Micarta Cruwear, Native 5 Maxamet (2nd), Para 3 Maxamet (2nd), Magnacut Mule, Z-Wear Mule, BBB 15V Manix 2, REC PM3 10V Satin, Dragonfly Salt 2, GB2 M4.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
WilliamMunny wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 5:19 amThe Manix has always just seemed like the best bang for the buck. Just look at the 15V run:Evil D wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:47 amRamZar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:43 amEvil D wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:23 amWhat's wild is when I bought my first one, the street price was something like $80 and I don't think that was much more than 10 years ago and has almost doubled in price. I remember reading that the Manix 2 was something of an experiment to sell a knife at a lower cost and higher volume, and I guess it still is about $30 cheaper than a Para 2. I wonder if that experiment is still ongoing or if it's actually cheaper to make a Manix 2, I would guess it's not about manufacturing cost because the Manix has so many more pieces to make and is significantly more finicky to assemble.
I too have been curious on why Manix2 S30V & G-10 at $151.20 is $34.30 less than ParaMilitary2 S45VN & G-10 at $185.50. Is the price of the Manix2 artificially held down (to get more sales, etc.)? I figure ParaMilitary2 models far outsell the Manix2 models?
Unless I'm misremembering it I believe there was a deliberate choice to keep the Manix 2 MSRP low, you might have to do some deep searching but I'm sure it's still here on the forum, probably around 10 years old.
Manix 2 - $225
PM2 - $292
Shaman - $387
Same size knife, same G-10, same steel but that’s a pretty significant price difference.
It is. However, some of that is offset by the fact that the Manix2 BBB 15V came out in December 2022 for a street price of $157.50 before US street prices went up about 10% in January 2023 and the PM2 BBB 15V having a street price of $204.40. Anyway, it seems like Spyderco is willing to have a lower profit margin for Manix2.
- I welcome dialog, as long as it remains cordial, constructive and is conducted in a civilized manner. - Titanic: Blood & Steel
- You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. - Abraham Lincoln
- salimoneus
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
IMO it boils down to the PM2 having these two "advantages" as to why it is more popular:
1) relatively lightweight for the overall blade size
2) fidget factor (one finger close)
1) relatively lightweight for the overall blade size
2) fidget factor (one finger close)
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
As a gram weenie, between these two knives I go with the Manix LW due to Blade/Weight ratio. For backpacking, you get a lotta knife with a Manix for only 2.9 oz. If there were a LW Paramilitary, that might change things. Neither knife will win any awards for being compact, but when out in the boonies, it's the desired functionality per weight, and dependability, that counts the most.
A new look at the ideal Spyderco folding backpack knife will be required, when the LW Native Chief appears!
A new look at the ideal Spyderco folding backpack knife will be required, when the LW Native Chief appears!
Last edited by Bolster on Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Steel novice who self-identifies as a steel expert. Proud M.N.O.S.D. member 0003. Spydie Steels: 4V, 15V, 20CV, AEB-L, AUS6, Cru-Wear, HAP40, K294, K390, M4, Magnacut, S110V, S30V, S35VN, S45VN, SPY27, SRS13, T15, VG10, XHP, ZWear, ZDP189
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
salimoneus wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:55 amIMO it boils down to the PM2 having these two "advantages" as to why it is more popular:
1) relatively lightweight for the overall blade size
2) fidget factor (one finger close)
The Manix also has a "one finger close", for those who find that important, right? (Though admittedly some find it hard to operate the CBBL "one fingered")
Top three going by pocket-time (update March 24):
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
- EDC: Endura thin red line ffg combo edge (VG10); Wayne Goddard PE (4V), Endela SE (VG10)
-Mountains/outdoors: Pac.Salt 1 SE (H1), Salt 2 SE (LC200N), and also Wayne Goddard PE (4V)
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
I meant to ask...is Spyderco sales data available? Evil D, how did you come by the sales figures you reference? Do you know Spyderco sales figures (whether relative or absolute) for other models as well?
Steel novice who self-identifies as a steel expert. Proud M.N.O.S.D. member 0003. Spydie Steels: 4V, 15V, 20CV, AEB-L, AUS6, Cru-Wear, HAP40, K294, K390, M4, Magnacut, S110V, S30V, S35VN, S45VN, SPY27, SRS13, T15, VG10, XHP, ZWear, ZDP189
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
I'm definitely assuming, but I do remember it being really popular, it's probably a safe assumption since it was popular enough to get an updated 2 version.
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~David
~David
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
pm2 is awesome...........period manix 2 for me is sh1te............
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
When I came back to the Spyderco brand in 2021 after a couple decades in the wilderness, the Paramilitary was the only Spyderco I had even heard of beyond what I knew from circa 2000. It was unavoidable if you read any magazines about firearms, survival, or the outdoors in general. So I guess you could say it was popular.
I decided I had to have one, and was immediately disappointed with the comp lock and blocky handle. I learned of the Manix, bought the base model LW, and was immediately amazed by the CBBL and the comfortable, ergonomic handle. As stated in a previous post, I have since come to enjoy both knives a lot.
I decided I had to have one, and was immediately disappointed with the comp lock and blocky handle. I learned of the Manix, bought the base model LW, and was immediately amazed by the CBBL and the comfortable, ergonomic handle. As stated in a previous post, I have since come to enjoy both knives a lot.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
I’m not a fan of the ball bearing lock. Maybe if you were talking about the back lock Manix…
There’s just something special about the PM2. It’s almost boring it’s so good. Subjectively perfect size, handle, blade, lock.
There’s just something special about the PM2. It’s almost boring it’s so good. Subjectively perfect size, handle, blade, lock.
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
I prefer the Manix, but there are a couple places where the PM2 is definitely better:
- The PM2 is a lot easier to maintain. The open back makes it easier to wash out and it's easy to disassemble for maintenance. The lock on the Manix is hard to wash out and it's very fiddly to reassemble.
- The lock on the PM2 is easier and more fun to use. The Manix cage design makes it hard to put downward pressure on it so you need to squeeze it to get enough grip. The back of the Manix is also not jimped so it can be tricky to operate with a slippery palm.
- The detent gives the PM2 a better action, IMO
- Tip down carry
- General ergonomics
- Partially closed back (removes a hot spot)
- Full liners (the inside of the G10 on the para series is sharp)
- The lock is really hard to accidentally disengage
- The manix lock is nicer to use left-handed or with gloves after I learned how to use it effectively.
- Chamfered G10 scales
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Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
The Manix and the pm2 are totally different family's and few people are fans of both.
The pm2 is a great design but it fails to impress me time and time again when i use them. It does not feel so good in my hand.
Not such a big fan of the blade style.
The size to weight is bad for me. ( yes you read this sentence correctly and do not let me start about the pm3 LW oh dear lord that feels as a toy )
So yes i am a fan of the Manix 2.
But honestly i am not such a big fan of those as i am from the original lockbacks.
Now those are truly high performance knives.
Build to last a lifetime and more.
Those big mean cutting machines feel perfect in hand, zero hot spots perfect weight and those blades cut like a dream (and i stand by it old s30v is better then the new in edge retention) and then those locks ooh boy that bankvault click gives me shivers of joy everytime i hear it!
When i have my old c95 or my mini Manix in my pocket i feel that i can do anything anywhere and it will never fail me what ever the job is that needs to be done. And they let me feel like its done with ease and comfort.
Neither the pm2 or the Manix 2 gives me that feeling so strongly.
The only one that gives me that feeling that is now in the line up is the Shaman.
That is for me Sal's greatest design.
Its like the old mini manix had a baby with the pm2 but the genes of the Manix stayed on top. Top notch Sal thank you!
The pm2 is a great design but it fails to impress me time and time again when i use them. It does not feel so good in my hand.
Not such a big fan of the blade style.
The size to weight is bad for me. ( yes you read this sentence correctly and do not let me start about the pm3 LW oh dear lord that feels as a toy )
So yes i am a fan of the Manix 2.
But honestly i am not such a big fan of those as i am from the original lockbacks.
Now those are truly high performance knives.
Build to last a lifetime and more.
Those big mean cutting machines feel perfect in hand, zero hot spots perfect weight and those blades cut like a dream (and i stand by it old s30v is better then the new in edge retention) and then those locks ooh boy that bankvault click gives me shivers of joy everytime i hear it!
When i have my old c95 or my mini Manix in my pocket i feel that i can do anything anywhere and it will never fail me what ever the job is that needs to be done. And they let me feel like its done with ease and comfort.
Neither the pm2 or the Manix 2 gives me that feeling so strongly.
The only one that gives me that feeling that is now in the line up is the Shaman.
That is for me Sal's greatest design.
Its like the old mini manix had a baby with the pm2 but the genes of the Manix stayed on top. Top notch Sal thank you!
Re: Why is the PM2 more popular when the Manix 2 is objectively better?
I like the PM2 lock better than the Manix 2 lock. My first Manix 2 was the G10 model and I liked it well enough, it seemed like a very solid knife. I liked the PM2 for it being trimmer and lighter than the Manix 2. Years after that I ended with a couple of LW Manix 2 and I like them best overall. They do take up more room in my pocket than the PM2 and I don't like that part of it. I like both knives and if I could have only one I could be happy with either one.