H-2 vs. H-1

[Scandi Grind]

I may start a run on H1 knives by posting this, but it is my calculation that if H1 isn't going to be produced anymore, that any knife made of H1 is going to have huge collector value down the road. I mean, essentially once they run out of the steel, it Will. Not. Exist!!! On any future knives anyway. At that point H1 kinda becomes gold. Seems like just a good investment.

[cabfrank]

The thing that sticks out to me is that H1 absolutely does not need to be improved with regard to corrosion resistance. It is already the best there is, for all practical purposes, impervious. The other differences remain to be seen.

[TkoK83Spy]

This just seems weird to me too. I'm not big on these kinds of steels, but I read enough. It's been my understanding that LC200N was the greatest thing in this category? So a newer blend of a steel that's already been out, and not to LC200N's standard, had just magically appeared for some reason?

[metaphoricalsimile]

The thing that sticks out to me is that H1 absolutely does not need to be improved with regard to corrosion resistance. It is already the best there is, for all practical purposes, impervious. The other differences remain to be seen.

Spyderco needed to capture the under-sea-volcanic-vent-diver market probably

[Soanso McMasters]

The Spyderbyte insinuated the change was because H2 is easier to manufacture.

[Doc Dan]

If it is a different manufacturer and they didn't have the expertise for H1, but had the expertise for H2, then it makes sense that it would be easier to make.

I really have no idea what all of this means because the way it is worded it brings up all sorts of inconsistencies and questions.

[James Y]

We'll simply have to wait and see how H2 performs once it comes out, before jumping the gun and deciding that it's better or worse than H1.

Jim

[ZrowsN1s]

We can't assume that just because the manufacturer is no longer making H-1 that they would give their blessing to someone else using their formula. Changes may have been necessary.

And even if they weren't.....

We can't assume there's going to be some big trade off in wear resistance or edge retention for the extra corrosion resistance. What if there isn't? What if it's just better?

Im excited to try this when it comes out, if my price for optimism is future disappointment so be it.

[Evil D]

We can't assume that just because the manufacturer is no longer making H-1 that they would give their blessing to someone else using their formula. Changes may have been necessary.

And even if they weren't.....

We can't assume there's going to be some big trade off in wear resistance or edge retention for the extra corrosion resistance. What if there isn't? What if it's just better?

Im excited to try this when it comes out, if my price for optimism is future disappointment so be it.

There really is quite a lot of doom and gloom over a steel that most people could care less about anyway. It's a case of suddenly wanting something because you're told you can't have it anymore. I know there are definitely some loyalists here for H1 (I'm one of them) but even if H2 performance just matches H1 I don't think the knife world will lose any sleep over it, and if they do there's still LC200N, and MagnaCut is more than enough corrosion resistance for 99% of the knife world and will likely outpace all three of these steels in edge retention.


I'm getting some strong New Coke vibes from all of this

[mikey177]

I would like to try H2, as long as it doesn't form hydrogen peroxide when exposed to pure oxygen

[vivi]

We can't assume that just because the manufacturer is no longer making H-1 that they would give their blessing to someone else using their formula. Changes may have been necessary.

And even if they weren't.....

We can't assume there's going to be some big trade off in wear resistance or edge retention for the extra corrosion resistance. What if there isn't? What if it's just better?

Im excited to try this when it comes out, if my price for optimism is future disappointment so be it.

There really is quite a lot of doom and gloom over a steel that most people could care less about anyway. It's a case of suddenly wanting something because you're told you can't have it anymore. I know there are definitely some loyalists here for H1 (I'm one of them) but even if H2 performance just matches H1 I don't think the knife world will lose any sleep over it.....

[Gtscotty]

We can't assume that just because the manufacturer is no longer making H-1 that they would give their blessing to someone else using their formula. Changes may have been necessary.

And even if they weren't.....

We can't assume there's going to be some big trade off in wear resistance or edge retention for the extra corrosion resistance. What if there isn't? What if it's just better?

Im excited to try this when it comes out, if my price for optimism is future disappointment so be it.

There really is quite a lot of doom and gloom over a steel that most people could care less about anyway. It's a case of suddenly wanting something because you're told you can't have it anymore. I know there are definitely some loyalists here for H1 (I'm one of them) but even if H2 performance just matches H1 I don't think the knife world will lose any sleep over it, and if they do there's still LC200N, and MagnaCut is more than enough corrosion resistance for 99% of the knife world and will likely outpace all three of these steels in edge retention.


I'm getting some strong New Coke vibes from all of this

Yeah, it'd be nice if H2 improved on H1's edge retention, but the Byte itself makes it pretty clear that filling that market space for higher edge retention PE Salts was the reason for releasing LC200N and Magna... Which is fine with me, I like both of those better anyway.

It seems that the main benefit brought up for H2 in the Byte is that it can be procured, unlike H1 (obviously an important factor), also, maybe better corrosion resistance, but IME that is not where H1 needed help.

Anywho, agree that there's not much cause for concern here, the world didn't end when Benchmade dropped H1. If you liked H1 because it was tough and very corrosion resistant it seems likely that H2 will deliver on at least those traits.

[Cowboyfromhell]

Im skeptical.....time will tell.

[Matus]

As Evid D said, as long as the H2 roughly matches H1, then all is fine. If it betters it in some regards - that would be a nice bonus.

As long as Spyderco keeps this line with the hollow grind, then I am good. I have learned to appreciate it lately and hope it will remain as a part of the line-up.

[Brock O Lee]

...
A bit hard to make judgment just from the composition, as a layman.

I like LC200N for my "salt" knives anyway so I'll pretty much be watching this debate from the peanut gallery.

Same here, LC200N and hopefully Magnacut soon.

[Sonorum]

We can't assume that just because the manufacturer is no longer making H-1 that they would give their blessing to someone else using their formula. Changes may have been necessary.

And even if they weren't.....

We can't assume there's going to be some big trade off in wear resistance or edge retention for the extra corrosion resistance. What if there isn't? What if it's just better?

Im excited to try this when it comes out, if my price for optimism is future disappointment so be it.

There really is quite a lot of doom and gloom over a steel that most people could care less about anyway. It's a case of suddenly wanting something because you're told you can't have it anymore. I know there are definitely some loyalists here for H1 (I'm one of them) but even if H2 performance just matches H1 I don't think the knife world will lose any sleep over it, and if they do there's still LC200N, and MagnaCut is more than enough corrosion resistance for 99% of the knife world and will likely outpace all three of these steels in edge retention.


I'm getting some strong New Coke vibes from all of this

These were my thoughts exactly reading through this thread. I haven't seen this level of H1 defense before, and I've read most of what vivi has written

[cjk]

Do the H1 fans have anything against LC200N? It seems like a vast improvement over H1 to me. I was thinking that demand for H1 would eventually taper off and die out. I am surprised that it's getting a replacement at all.

[cjk]

to my non-metallurgist brain, the composition of H-2 seems pretty different from H-1. It might just be the presentation format, but it seemed "more different" than the differences between S30V, S35VN, and S45VN.

[Takuan]

I find it interesting that the amount of nitrogen is being reduced from 0.10% (H1) to 0.06% (H2) and the amount of chromium is being reduced from 14.00-16.00% (H1) to 13.73% (H2). I suppose the increase in molybdenum from 0.50-1.50% (H1) to 2.24% (H2) will be responsible for the improved corrosion/pitting resistance. I wonder how much molybdenum contributes to edge retention.

Knife Steel Nerds has an excellent article on corrosion resistance: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14 ... e-testing/. It states, “Molybdenum and nitrogen are known to help with “pitting resistance” and can support the chromium oxide layer. Chromium, molybdenum, and nitrogen can form carbides or nitrides which leads to less of the alloying element available for contributing to corrosion resistance,” and, “ There was a strong effect of both chromium and molybdenum on corrosion resistance. Whether there is an effect of nitrogen is somewhat less clear.” I’d be interested to hear Dr. Thomas’ opinions about what the changes to the amounts of nitrogen, chromium, and molybdenum will do for edge retention and corrosion resistance.

Overall, I think this change is a good thing because it gives me an excuse to buy a bunch of new knives in the name of science. My wife and I are both professors, so saying that a purchase is for “research purposes” goes a long way.

[James Y]

It's kind of interesting how, in some instances, this news causes some to want to panic buy H1 knives. It's reminiscent of (for example) back when Johnny Cash and Michael Jackson died, and all of a sudden, "everyone" was buying up all their records and CDs. More people (including people who probably weren't even fans) were buying their music right after their deaths than had cared about them in years.

As far as why does anybody still care about H1 or H2 when there's LC200N, different people like different things. H1 (and H2) are more corrosion resistant than LC200N, and possibly a little tougher as well. Some people may push both steels enough to detect the differences that I myself, or many others, may not notice.

What is interesting is that even if H2 were identical to H1 in all respects, except that it has even better corrosion resistance, there will still be people saying, "Why do I need it to be even
more corrosion resistant? I want it to stay the way it is!"

Jim