Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
Up front is my newly-arrived Lil’Temperance2 (C69GP2) with its distinctive milled-G10 in a green that pleases me. A Lil’Temperance3 stands just behind it.
Gotta say, finding a Spydie built two decades earlier and still in mint condition, as my Dyad and Lil’Temp2 are, has been quite a rush (not unlike my finding a test-fired-only SIG P226 built in West Germany during 1994).
The Lil’Temps’ juxtaposition and the rearward one of a C82 D’Allara2 (nearer) and D’Allara3 (farther) represent a new urge in my attraction to Spyderco.
If you think you’re close to knowing about Spyderco, find a recent model, then, if you like it, find an earlier version and ponder what Sal was thinking. Lots to chew on, yet not to know, if design and variations on a design are your thing.
So, here are some impressions about the Lil’Temp2 to join the ones that were added to the Forum in real time way back when.
The handle is very thick, thicker than the Lil’Temp3, but surprisingly not as thick as the similarly stout M4 Shaman I’ve been carrying recently. Because of the latter’s contouring, the Lil’Temp2 feels very much thicker, and is indeed blocky (I can like blocky); perfect, I imagine, for its intended self-defense application.
The handle has just enough real estate for the saber grip of my largish hand; it’s marginally shorter than the Shaman’s (when its finger-choil remains ungripped), but the Lil’Temp2’s rearward handle-grooves do keep my ring and pinkie fingers fully and comfortably in place. Oddly, the grooveless (and thinner) Lil’Temp3 handle seems just as secure, but perhaps it would not be quite as secure as the Lil’Temp2 in an unpredictable mêlée. In a defensive outward-reverse grip, my index and middle finger are super-glued right into the rearward grooves with my thumb pressing down on the handle’s butt.
The Lil’Temp2’s thumb-ramp, somewhat reminiscent of the earlier C60 Ayoob’s, is almost entirely sandwiched between the handle’s two scales and thus offers a thumb-rest that is both larger and more comfortable than my C70 ATR2’s screwed-on cobra-hood (and in the outward-reverse grip, the edge of the palm is nicely supported). Speaking of the Ayoob, the Lil’Temp2, though FFG, has a vaguely smushed-in Ayoob vibe.
I have resisted the trailing-point blade-shape for a long time (my first Spyderco one came unavoidably as part of the earlier C44 Dyad) but with the Lil’Temp2, I think I now “get it”. A trailing-point can offer as much edge-length in a shorter blade as a longer one (and thus be permitted in more jurisdictions). And the acute point it offers at the stabbing angle is mostly the edge’s apex, the spine coming in behind the point and apex (MJ’s Yojimbo relies on the spine’s flat, after penetration, to press the point and apex in and down).
Measured to the tip from the handle (where the handle would intersect a line imagined between pivot and tip), the blade-length on both Lil’Temps is nearly equal (with a nod to the Lil’Temp2) but the edge-length on the Lil’Temp2 is maybe a half-inch longer. Perhaps more interestingly, compared to the Shaman’s blade-length, the Lil’Temp2’s is a half-inch shorter, but its edge-length is actually a tad longer. And the distal taper of the Lil’Temp and Shaman, each 3 mm thick at the Spydiehole, is way more pronounced on the former.
As I have asserted in other threads, all hand-filling folders can be used in self-defense, if not as well as ones designed for that purpose. What interests me is how SD folders can find more daily uses.
Because of its pronounced belly and distal taper, the Lil’Temp2 (with even more belly than the Lil’Temp3) can be rocked back and forth into matter needing separation, and even redirected as on a dime, each relatively easily. And it has less blade than the leaf-shaped Lil’Temp3 to get stuck; it barely sticks on the Australian-made hard-cheddar cheese that has my dogs’ interest at the moment.
The Lil’Temp2 shares with several other older Spydie models a peculiar feature not usually seen in more modern ones. L to R, Lil’Temp2 (2001-2004), D’Allara2 (2006-2007), SuperLeaf (2010-2012), and Lil’Temp3 (2017-2018), this last the least extreme.
When these knives are closed, they have a fugly protrusion; when opened, this “eyesore” forms part of a very comfortable thumb-ramp. Form follows function.
All for now.
EDIT TO ADD: Forgot to mention that now-rare (easy to add, hard to remove) sharpening choils occur on the Lil’Temp2 and D’Allara2.
Last edited by wrdwrght on Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
-Marc (pocketing a Cruwear Military2 today)
“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
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Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
Green Rhino Lil Temp is best Lil Temp, congrats on that NOS treasure. I found a leaf version a few years back at a gun store in town. The clip was why I sold it but have regretted it to the point of asking the forum Member I sold it to my f it was still around. I wish the Lil Temp 2 could have a retro run
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Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
Thank you great review . I especially enjoyed the comparison shot . It has definitely given me some food for thought . Much appreciated, Dan
MNOSD 0002 / Do more than is required of you . Patton
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Nothing makes earth so spacious as to have friends at a distance; they make the latitudes and longitudes.
Henry David Thoreau
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Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
I like it a lot.
Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
Hi Wrdwrght,
Thanx much for your post and especially your interest in the history and development of a model.
Talkin' Story:
I'd been interested in knives all of my life. I've always paid attention to the use of a knife as a potential weapon. In 2000, I spent some time with Mr. James Keating.
Like Michael Janich and a few others, I think that the skill that they develop is art form carried by artists across centuries of teacher/student learning. Much like Martial Art styles, Kendo, Escrima and other Marital Blade styles, they are well thought out, practiced and taught. Michael has way more knowledge on this. He's a Master, in my opinion.
For me, James Keating's Riddle of Steel was a new and special experience. James is a good teacher and I learned a great deal. A bunch of knife afi's jump into jet boats and cruise up the Snake River to a camp. Rooms, food, and days of MBC. I met some great people and it was through those people that Mike and I met.
The Lil' Temperance trailing point (Rhino) was designed to fit James Keating "style" of trapping, and keep within a 3.0" blade limit. Designed for Forward grip edge down, the clip-holes and dimples on the handle were for rotation to Reverse Grip Edge Out. We also made a Leaf blade for more general use.
That was before I learned about P'Kal and Mike's style. The new model is an evolution of the original design, designed to be able to use the other grips. (all 4) FRN, bi-dectional grippy texture, 3" (The pro's say best to be around 3" blade length) thicker stout blade, leaf shape only (at this time). Full Flat grind. Don't know about trainers of other variations. It's just an evolved form of a blade concept for useful tough every day carry with a strong bend towards MBC. If there is interest, we can, with the FRN handle, create a variety of variations. If I had to name it. I would call it a "Man Tooth".
For Michael's styles's, I would say go Yojimbo (or YoJumbo). His design works better for his style. It's a very refined style. I'm watching his designs develop and refine as well. It's an interesting design evolution. I'm looking forward to his new Micro, and anything he comes up with.
Just some inside info.
sal
Thanx much for your post and especially your interest in the history and development of a model.
Talkin' Story:
I'd been interested in knives all of my life. I've always paid attention to the use of a knife as a potential weapon. In 2000, I spent some time with Mr. James Keating.
Like Michael Janich and a few others, I think that the skill that they develop is art form carried by artists across centuries of teacher/student learning. Much like Martial Art styles, Kendo, Escrima and other Marital Blade styles, they are well thought out, practiced and taught. Michael has way more knowledge on this. He's a Master, in my opinion.
For me, James Keating's Riddle of Steel was a new and special experience. James is a good teacher and I learned a great deal. A bunch of knife afi's jump into jet boats and cruise up the Snake River to a camp. Rooms, food, and days of MBC. I met some great people and it was through those people that Mike and I met.
The Lil' Temperance trailing point (Rhino) was designed to fit James Keating "style" of trapping, and keep within a 3.0" blade limit. Designed for Forward grip edge down, the clip-holes and dimples on the handle were for rotation to Reverse Grip Edge Out. We also made a Leaf blade for more general use.
That was before I learned about P'Kal and Mike's style. The new model is an evolution of the original design, designed to be able to use the other grips. (all 4) FRN, bi-dectional grippy texture, 3" (The pro's say best to be around 3" blade length) thicker stout blade, leaf shape only (at this time). Full Flat grind. Don't know about trainers of other variations. It's just an evolved form of a blade concept for useful tough every day carry with a strong bend towards MBC. If there is interest, we can, with the FRN handle, create a variety of variations. If I had to name it. I would call it a "Man Tooth".
For Michael's styles's, I would say go Yojimbo (or YoJumbo). His design works better for his style. It's a very refined style. I'm watching his designs develop and refine as well. It's an interesting design evolution. I'm looking forward to his new Micro, and anything he comes up with.
Just some inside info.
sal
Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
Wrdwrght, thanks for taking the time to write your thoughts on these models. It’s given me a different perspective on the Lil’ Temp series. And Sal thanks for the talkin’ story that fills in the background.
The ‘Rhino’ incarnation has always caught my eye and has now caught my imagination.
Hopefully we will see a version made available once the FRN Lil’ Temp is released.
The ‘Rhino’ incarnation has always caught my eye and has now caught my imagination.
Hopefully we will see a version made available once the FRN Lil’ Temp is released.
'The future is already here;it's just not evenly distributed'
William Gibson
William Gibson
Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
One of my most treasured spydies.
Marius
" A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it "
( Rabindranath Tagore )
Proud member of the old school spyderedge nation
" A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it "
( Rabindranath Tagore )
Proud member of the old school spyderedge nation
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Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
What a cool story. I would love the Rhino reboot in the LT FRN, although I favor your leaf shape almost exclusively. That Rhino LT2 was a show stoppersal wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:05 amHi Wrdwrght,
Thanx much for your post and especially your interest in the history and development of a model.
Talkin' Story:
I'd been interested in knives all of my life. I've always paid attention to the use of a knife as a potential weapon. In 2000, I spent some time with Mr. James Keating.
Like Michael Janich and a few others, I think that the skill that they develop is art form carried by artists across centuries of teacher/student learning. Much like Martial Art styles, Kendo, Escrima and other Marital Blade styles, they are well thought out, practiced and taught. Michael has way more knowledge on this. He's a Master, in my opinion.
For me, James Keating's Riddle of Steel was a new and special experience. James is a good teacher and I learned a great deal. A bunch of knife afi's jump into jet boats and cruise up the Snake River to a camp. Rooms, food, and days of MBC. I met some great people and it was through those people that Mike and I met.
The Lil' Temperance trailing point (Rhino) was designed to fit James Keating "style" of trapping, and keep within a 3.0" blade limit. Designed for Forward grip edge down, the clip-holes and dimples on the handle were for rotation to Reverse Grip Edge Out. We also made a Leaf blade for more general use.
That was before I learned about P'Kal and Mike's style. The new model is an evolution of the original design, designed to be able to use the other grips. (all 4) FRN, bi-dectional grippy texture, 3" (The pro's say best to be around 3" blade length) thicker stout blade, leaf shape only (at this time). Full Flat grind. Don't know about trainers of other variations. It's just an evolved form of a blade concept for useful tough every day carry with a strong bend towards MBC. If there is interest, we can, with the FRN handle, create a variety of variations. If I had to name it. I would call it a "Man Tooth".
For Michael's styles's, I would say go Yojimbo (or YoJumbo). His design works better for his style. It's a very refined style. I'm watching his designs develop and refine as well. It's an interesting design evolution. I'm looking forward to his new Micro, and anything he comes up with.
Just some inside info.
sal
Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
Thanks for this post wrdwrght, and Sal for elaborating.. I always appreciate learning about older models and the evolution of their designs.. interesting stuff!
The LT3 is a favorite of mine and the rumored FRN Lil Temp is the Spyderco release that I've been most excited for in quite a while! I don't have an LT2, but it's one of those classic older models that I've always really wanted.. I do wonder though, how my large/XL hands would mesh with the finger grooves.. haha sometimes my hands don't like to be told what to do.. thus my appreciation for the more neutral LT3 handle.. Great design!
The LT3 is a favorite of mine and the rumored FRN Lil Temp is the Spyderco release that I've been most excited for in quite a while! I don't have an LT2, but it's one of those classic older models that I've always really wanted.. I do wonder though, how my large/XL hands would mesh with the finger grooves.. haha sometimes my hands don't like to be told what to do.. thus my appreciation for the more neutral LT3 handle.. Great design!
Rick H.
..well, that escalated quickly..
..well, that escalated quickly..
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Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
Yes, i'm waiting tor the FRN lil temp 3.
Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
the first time I held a lil temp 1 the handle felt like I had squished a ball of playdough in my grip. some of the best ergonomics out of any knife I've used.
Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
Having the 2 and the 3, I find it hard to think I don’t need the 1, which would be so different than the 3.
-Marc (pocketing a Cruwear Military2 today)
“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
Seems like I’ve found the reason why I’ve been reluctant to let a different Spydie into my pocket.
-Marc (pocketing a Cruwear Military2 today)
“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
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Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
The full compliment
Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
Ahhh. Nice.
-Marc (pocketing a Cruwear Military2 today)
“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
“When science changes its opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.”
Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
That Rhino version really looks business, thicker G10 scales that look stronger than latest G10 version, clip looks nicer than the actual cheap stamped clip.
Still the last G10 Lil'Temperance from friends in Japan came out ridiculously expensive, especially in EU, hence cheapweight Lil'Temperance.
And while that Rhino version looks purposeful MBC the new FRN is said to be designed more like EDC friendly just to sell some more.
Due to the purpose/strength requirements I presume it needs a stronger thicker FRN handle, not something like a Delica's handle, so I wonder how much cheaper will this be compared to G10 version. On the other hand Gods have spoken about EDC so a Delica handle strenght might as well do
Looking forward to one of these, design still looks interesting, too bad about business practices that get these to be so expensive and about downgrading a pure MBC design towards EDC.
Still the last G10 Lil'Temperance from friends in Japan came out ridiculously expensive, especially in EU, hence cheapweight Lil'Temperance.
And while that Rhino version looks purposeful MBC the new FRN is said to be designed more like EDC friendly just to sell some more.
Due to the purpose/strength requirements I presume it needs a stronger thicker FRN handle, not something like a Delica's handle, so I wonder how much cheaper will this be compared to G10 version. On the other hand Gods have spoken about EDC so a Delica handle strenght might as well do
Looking forward to one of these, design still looks interesting, too bad about business practices that get these to be so expensive and about downgrading a pure MBC design towards EDC.
Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
Lil’Temp 3 in the 2nd part of the video of the video, close to $200-ish
https://www.youtube.com/watchv=WsbnTk5AEeE
https://www.youtube.com/watchv=WsbnTk5AEeE
Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
I really like this design as well, especially the newest version. I’m sure a Japan-made FRN compression lock is a challenge to make and price, but the design and function is probably worth it to try, in my opinion.
My brain sees it placed next to a Rockjumper and thinks, “Yes, these are good!”. Don’t know if that really makes any sense, though!
They’re just a lot of what I like.
My brain sees it placed next to a Rockjumper and thinks, “Yes, these are good!”. Don’t know if that really makes any sense, though!
They’re just a lot of what I like.
rex121 is the king of steel, but nature’s teeth have been cutting for hundreds of millions of years and counting :cool:
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Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
I’m guessing late this year, early next year got LW. I’m in for one since I have the original and one of the last run.
"...it costs nothing to be polite." - Winston Churchill
“Maybe the cheese in the mousetrap is an artificially created cheaper price?” -Sal
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Re: Delayed excitement about an early Lil’Temp
Probably one of my most regretted Spyderco knives. Even had a chance to pick up a SE version a few years later but passed. Love my Lil'Temp 3, but much prefer the ergonomics on the original. Possibly due to being a student of James Keating, and his Riddle of Steel course.
Handled the Lil'Temp LW at BLADE this year - I liked it a lot.
Handled the Lil'Temp LW at BLADE this year - I liked it a lot.