Did the Warrior Hawk get discontinued?

[newbladeuser]

It's no longer listed on their site.

Are they planning on releasing a new model, preferably one made out of something tougher than D2 tool steel if they plan to sell it for $336 USD?

[Mushroom]

I found it on their website, although currently out of stock. Spyderco.com > Products > Tools > Warrior Hawk

https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/detail ... rade-/1133

[kerrcobra]

It's no longer listed on their site.

Are they planning on releasing a new model, preferably one made out of something tougher than D2 tool steel if they plan to sell it for $336 USD?

I'm curious to know what you'd prefer over D2. My experience is that D2 can be incredibly tough when heat treated properly for that application. My use of the Szabohawk has reinforced my belief. No lie though - $336 is a STEEP price, and I couldn't fault anyone that has serious expectations when dropping that much dough on a 'hawk.

[newbladeuser]

It's no longer listed on their site.

Are they planning on releasing a new model, preferably one made out of something tougher than D2 tool steel if they plan to sell it for $336 USD?

I'm curious to know what you'd prefer over D2. My experience is that D2 can be incredibly tough when heat treated properly for that application. My use of the Szabohawk has reinforced my belief. No lie though - $336 is a STEEP price, and I couldn't fault anyone that has serious expectations when dropping that much dough on a 'hawk.

I'm no expert in metallurgy, so you'll have to pardon my ignorance. Your question completely caught me off guard, and as such, I don't really have an answer. However, from my limited understanding on different types of metals and the heat treatment processes involved, D2 is not the strongest steel out there. And for the price tag of over $300USD, I'd expect something a little better than what you'd come to expect from the tools available at your local hardware store. And yeah, the price tag is a hard pill to swallow, when you consider that aside from the aesthetic pleasure the weapon provides when looking at it, it doesn't really have any practical purposes outside of using it to injure another person or vandalizing someone's property.

The Warrior Hawk is made from D2 and coated with TiCN. D2 tool steel already has good rust resistance, so the TiCN coating is sort of a redundant feature. Imo, 52100 steel would be optimal if the TiCN coating is an absolute necessity, as it's much harder and would hold an edge better. I'm sure there are other types of metal you could make an argument for that would be more optimal than D2, but I don't feel like I should render an opinion on those types of metals. From the article, I just compared one type of steel listed in the types of 'tool steels' available that seems better than D2 when paired with the TiCN coating of the Warrior Hawk.

Source https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Steel-Types--332

[sal]

Hi Newbladeuser,

Welcome to our forum. Hope you enjoy your time here.

sal

[kerrcobra]

It's no longer listed on their site.

Are they planning on releasing a new model, preferably one made out of something tougher than D2 tool steel if they plan to sell it for $336 USD?

I'm curious to know what you'd prefer over D2. My experience is that D2 can be incredibly tough when heat treated properly for that application. My use of the Szabohawk has reinforced my belief. No lie though - $336 is a STEEP price, and I couldn't fault anyone that has serious expectations when dropping that much dough on a 'hawk.

I'm no expert in metallurgy, so you'll have to pardon my ignorance. Your question completely caught me off guard, and as such, I don't really have an answer. However, from my limited understanding on different types of metals and the heat treatment processes involved, D2 is not the strongest steel out there. And for the price tag of over $300USD, I'd expect something a little better than what you'd come to expect from the tools available at your local hardware store. And yeah, the price tag is a hard pill to swallow, when you consider that aside from the aesthetic pleasure the weapon provides when looking at it, it doesn't really have any practical purposes outside of using it to injure another person or vandalizing someone's property.

The Warrior Hawk is made from D2 and coated with TiCN. D2 tool steel already has good rust resistance, so the TiCN coating is sort of a redundant feature. Imo, 52100 steel would be optimal if the TiCN coating is an absolute necessity, as it's much harder and would hold an edge better. I'm sure there are other types of metal you could make an argument for that would be more optimal than D2, but I don't feel like I should render an opinion on those types of metals. From the article, I just compared one type of steel listed in the types of 'tool steels' available that seems better than D2 when paired with the TiCN coating of the Warrior Hawk.

Source https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Steel-Types--332

Cool, man. I would caution you to not rely heavily on the information provided on bladehq's "Steel Types" page. It's rife with misinformation, hastily drawn conclusions, and - most importantly - a lot of what is presented there is out-of-date. Many of the better steels are not even included. There is a metallurgist around here, named Larrin, who focuses specifically on cutting implements (mainly knives), and he puts out far more reliable information. If you have an interest in learning more about any of this stuff, then I'd highly recommend checking out his website - https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10/19/ ... esistance/.

Now, from a personal standpoint, I think you're underestimating D2. I absolutely love 52100, and it's one of my favorite steels, but I'd say you're mistaken about 52100 having superior edge retention over it. For this particular application, I'd also point out that edge retention probably isn't the most important attribute to consider.

[newbladeuser]

It's no longer listed on their site.

Are they planning on releasing a new model, preferably one made out of something tougher than D2 tool steel if they plan to sell it for $336 USD?

I'm curious to know what you'd prefer over D2. My experience is that D2 can be incredibly tough when heat treated properly for that application. My use of the Szabohawk has reinforced my belief. No lie though - $336 is a STEEP price, and I couldn't fault anyone that has serious expectations when dropping that much dough on a 'hawk.

I'm no expert in metallurgy, so you'll have to pardon my ignorance. Your question completely caught me off guard, and as such, I don't really have an answer. However, from my limited understanding on different types of metals and the heat treatment processes involved, D2 is not the strongest steel out there. And for the price tag of over $300USD, I'd expect something a little better than what you'd come to expect from the tools available at your local hardware store. And yeah, the price tag is a hard pill to swallow, when you consider that aside from the aesthetic pleasure the weapon provides when looking at it, it doesn't really have any practical purposes outside of using it to injure another person or vandalizing someone's property.

The Warrior Hawk is made from D2 and coated with TiCN. D2 tool steel already has good rust resistance, so the TiCN coating is sort of a redundant feature. Imo, 52100 steel would be optimal if the TiCN coating is an absolute necessity, as it's much harder and would hold an edge better. I'm sure there are other types of metal you could make an argument for that would be more optimal than D2, but I don't feel like I should render an opinion on those types of metals. From the article, I just compared one type of steel listed in the types of 'tool steels' available that seems better than D2 when paired with the TiCN coating of the Warrior Hawk.

Source https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Steel-Types--332

Cool, man. I would caution you to not rely heavily on the information provided on bladehq's "Steel Types" page. It's rife with misinformation, hastily drawn conclusions, and - most importantly - a lot of what is presented there is out-of-date. Many of the better steels are not even included. There is a metallurgist around here, named Larrin, who focuses specifically on cutting implements (mainly knives), and he puts out far more reliable information. If you have an interest in learning more about any of this stuff, then I'd highly recommend checking out his website - https://knifesteelnerds.com/2021/10/19/ ... esistance/.

Now, from a personal standpoint, I think you're underestimating D2. I absolutely love 52100, and it's one of my favorite steels, but I'd say you're mistaken about 52100 having superior edge retention over it. For this particular application, I'd also point out that edge retention probably isn't the most important attribute to consider.

I was going off that bladeHQ link when I made that suggestion about 52100.

Thank you for the steel nerds link. That site has D2 scored with the following: 3.5 for 'toughness,' 5 for 'edge retention' and 4.5 for 'corrosion resistance.' Now, looking at a steel type from within the same category, 10V steel, it has a toughness factor of 5, edge retention of 8.5 and a corrosion resistance of 4. To answer your prior question, 10V steel would be the ideal choice for the Warrior Hawk, imo. The only factor it scores less on is corrosion resistance, and seeing how as the blade is cloaked in a TiCN coating, that sort of nullifies its only weakness and makes more sense for a steel like 10V to be cloaked in than does D2 steel.

And to respond to your point about edge retention, some owners of the Warrior Hawk have complained that the Hawk is too difficult to sharpen without needing special equipment, like some kind of diamond sharpening tool or something of that sort. If I had a tool that required me making a trip to see a specialist to have sharpened because it's otherwise unable to be sharpened, I'd want that edge to have superior retention on it. I'd like for it to be sharp and not have to worry about it for a VERY long time.

[cali]

According to Larrin, D2 has poor toughness.
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/11/05/ ... el-knives/
And in this application toughess is more important than edge retention.

[Mushroom]

According to Larrin, D2 has poor toughness.
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/11/05/ ... el-knives/
And in this application toughess is more important than edge retention.

That article actually states that "D2 has adequate toughness" but Larrin is also testing D2 as a thinly ground knife steel not a .3" thick tomahawk. D2 has been extremely tough in my use with the Szabohawk.

[cali]

According to Larrin, D2 has poor toughness.
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/11/05/ ... el-knives/
And in this application toughess is more important than edge retention.

That article actually states that "D2 has adequate toughness" but Larrin is also testing D2 as a thinly ground knife steel not a .3" thick tomahawk. D2 has been extremely tough in my use with the Szabohawk.

Larrin tests steel properties, not knives.
D2 toughness is 5 ft*lbs, A2 is ~15 ft*lbs, L6 and 52100 - 25 ft*lbs, 5160 - 45 ft*lbs, 8670 - 50 ft*lbs. You can't ignore that.

[Mushroom]

According to Larrin, D2 has poor toughness.
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/11/05/ ... el-knives/
And in this application toughess is more important than edge retention.

That article actually states that "D2 has adequate toughness" but Larrin is also testing D2 as a thinly ground knife steel not a .3" thick tomahawk. D2 has been extremely tough in my use with the Szabohawk.

Larrin tests steel properties, not knives.
D2 toughness is 5 ft*lbs, A2 is ~15 ft*lbs, L6 and 52100 - 25 ft*lbs, 5160 - 45 ft*lbs, 8670 - 50 ft*lbs. You can't ignore that.

I didn't say he was testing knives but I'm also not here to argue semantics... (or argue at all for that matter)

His toughness results for D2 were also based on a single heat treat sample so the toughness (ft-lbs) could range higher or lower depending on the hardness. I don't know how hard Spyderco runs the Warrior Hawk or Szabohawk but in my experience, it has been plenty tough.

[JD Spydo]

According to Larrin, D2 has poor toughness.
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/11/05/ ... el-knives/
And in this application toughess is more important than edge retention.

I"ve talked to one knifemaker recently about this very subject who told me that he found "S-7" tool steel to be the best material for a Tomahawk, Hatchet or any other striking tool.

However I will say that both of the D-2 knives I've had did really well over time. But a hawk or hatchet is a completely different tool used for totally different uses.

[Manixguy@1994]

According to Larrin, D2 has poor toughness.
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/11/05/ ... el-knives/
And in this application toughess is more important than edge retention.

I"ve talked to one knifemaker recently about this very subject who told me that he found "S-7" tool steel to be the best material for a Tomahawk, Hatchet or any other striking tool.

However I will say that both of the D-2 knives I've had did really well over time. But a hawk or hatchet is a completely different tool used for totally different uses.

I have two hatchets , and an axe . All use S-7 and all three have seen years of use . I have no problem with D-2 in knives but would not be my preferred for hatchet and axes . Others may think differently but I will stick with what has worked for me .

[cali]

According to Larrin, D2 has poor toughness.
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/11/05/ ... el-knives/
And in this application toughess is more important than edge retention.

I"ve talked to one knifemaker recently about this very subject who told me that he found "S-7" tool steel to be the best material for a Tomahawk, Hatchet or any other striking tool.

However I will say that both of the D-2 knives I've had did really well over time. But a hawk or hatchet is a completely different tool used for totally different uses.

I have two hatchets , and an axe . All use S-7 and all three have seen years of use . I have no problem with D-2 in knives but would not be my preferred for hatchet and axes . Others may think differently but I will stick with what has worked for me .

S-x shock resisting steels are a natural choice for axes.

[newbladeuser]

According to Larrin, D2 has poor toughness.
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/11/05/ ... el-knives/
And in this application toughess is more important than edge retention.

That article actually states that "D2 has adequate toughness" but Larrin is also testing D2 as a thinly ground knife steel not a .3" thick tomahawk. D2 has been extremely tough in my use with the Szabohawk.

Larrin tests steel properties, not knives.
D2 toughness is 5 ft*lbs, A2 is ~15 ft*lbs, L6 and 52100 - 25 ft*lbs, 5160 - 45 ft*lbs, 8670 - 50 ft*lbs. You can't ignore that.

This is... unbelievable. Thank you so much for sharing this. Yes, it is very much something that should NOT be ignored, especially when taking into consideration the price point of the Hawk. For $150 more, I could probably get a Hawk made from one of the aforementioned steels you listed. I'm already treading into the $300+ territory anyways, I'd much prefer to spend the extra $100-$200 and get something of superior quality, which is why I personally believe this Hawk was pulled from the shelves. It was probably selling really poorly.

Not to mention the fact I actually contacted Spyderco about a suspect review that was left on Amazon where a purchaser uploaded pictures of the thing in which it appeared the TiCN coating wasn't fully applied and the G10 handle wasn't flush with the blade itself; hastily put together with little to no care or concern. Typical of products made in CHINA, if you ask me. Spyderco defended this quality tho, which raised red flags. If I'm spending $400CAD on something, it best be of the utmost quality. This item has G A M B L E written all over it. A shame too, because it looks really nice

[Michael Janich]

For the record, the Warrior Hawk is not discontinued. It is included in our 2022 catalog, but is currently out of stock. It is also made in Taiwan, not China.

It appears that there have been some counterfeits of it made. Those obviously do not represent the quality of the original.

Stay safe,

Mike

[newbladeuser]

For the record, the Warrior Hawk is not discontinued. It is included in our 2022 catalog, but is currently out of stock. It is also made in Taiwan, not China.

It appears that there have been some counterfeits of it made. Those obviously do not represent the quality of the original.

Stay safe,

Mike

Someone from your company defended the craftsmanship of said counterfeits when I emailed them. Apparently, G10 handles that are not completely flush with the hawk are perfectly authentic, and the lack of a TiCN coating on certain parts of it is due to poor lighting.

And it's called Taiwan, China. Officially, the Republic of China. It's an island 180km to the east of continental Asia, how is that not China? What are you trying to insinuate?

[Michael Janich]

Dear newbladeuser:

I'm not sure who you're referring to at Spyderco, but we do not defend the craftsmanship of counterfeit products. We are happy to respond to legitimate questions about authentic Spyderco products; however, if you are displeased with the design or material choices of a product, it's simpler and easier for everyone to simply shop for something that better suits your needs and personal tastes. RMJ Tactical makes some excellent tomahawks. You might consider giving them a look.

When most people refer to "China," they are referring to the People's Republic of China. Taiwan, as you pointed out, is the "Republic of China." They are different countries with different political systems and approaches to personal freedom. I have traveled to both, lived in Hong Kong when it was still a British colony, and three years of my military service were spent as a linguist/analyst supporting the intelligence mission against the PRC at the National Security Agency. I'm not insinuating anything. I'm simply stating that the quality of manufacture of products in Taiwan is generally much better than those made in the PRC.

Stay safe,

Mike

[newbladeuser]

I'd like to thank you for your service to this great country.

You're assuming that the model of the Warrior Hawk in question with shoddy craftsmanship is a counterfeit. So did I when I happened upon the pictures in the review posted on Amazon. However, when I emailed Spyderco to inquire as to whether or not it was a counterfeit, I was informed that the pictures appeared like the model in question was "authentic." Not fully coated in TiCN, G10 handles weren't buffed so as to be flush with the handle itself, etc.

If I'm spending over $400CAD, don't you think I deserve a product that has undergone QC measures similar or better to that of Fisher Price toys? I can forward you the email for your own reference if you'd like.

Being that this is a forum for public discourse, I should think that my opinions and criticisms regarding the craftsmanship and materials used in manufacturing of your products ought to be relevant. Sure, I could go and purchase a product from RMJ Tactical, but that does nothing to dissuade my feeling that Spyderco can and should do better by its customers. You're certainly capable of better. Hence the reason I began the post asking whether you might be developing a new Hawk with stronger materials (fingers crossed).

When most people refer to a product having been made in CHINA, they're denouncing the craftsmanship or materials used in the manufacturing of said item. They're usually hastily put together in some sweatshop where mass production is prioritized over the quality of each individual item. As appears the case for the Warrior Hawk I seen in the Amazon review. It looks absolutely NOTHING like the Warrior Hawk seen here in the unveiling video on Knife Centre https://youtu.be/kFlBtg4sPEk I would assume you're using Chinese metals and other materials manufactured and sold from China. Or am I wrong and you're importing American made steel and other materials to assemble your products with? If that's the case, why not open up a shop in America and assemble your products there? Wouldn't it be cheaper?

If I buy your 'Hawk, which one am I going to get? Am I going to get the model similar to the one showcased in the KnifeCentre unveiling, OR am I going to get the "authentic" looking model that looks like it was secured to a vise and spraypainted?

[Michael Janich]

If you buy a genuine Spyderco Warrior Hawk, it will represent our high level of quality. We have never released any that were not fully TiCN coated. While the scales of the original SzaboHawk were finished flush with the tang, the scales of the Warrior Hawk were purposely designed to fit slightly within the profile of the tang. It is manufactured by highly skilled craftsmen in Taiwan.

Stay safe,

Mike