Sal - YOU are not listening to us

[Wartstein]

EDIT: In this discussion we have confirmed the PM2 clip placement has nothing to do with customer preference. It comes tip down because that’s they way it has always been, and Eric likes it that way. It doesn’t matter that it leaves marks that are exposed when putting the clip in the position used by most of the knife industry and your other spydercos.

The several polite threads over the years with polls trying to influence Spyderco to put the clip tip up, like most other knives, won’t change a decision made based on “it’s the way it’s always been” and “Eric likes it that way”. My attempt to try a different approach and be a jerk, pointing out the failed polite attempts, and the data, will also not change a decision that has nothing to do with what customers want.

...

Still not sure if this perhaps is just a bad joke - ?!

- How can you think you can conclude what "customers" want, just based on a few polls?
- How can you think that this forum would be a place to tell Spyderco what they have to do?
- How can you think that Spyderco could have become the great (and innovative!) company they are if they´d base their decisions on "how it always has been and what Eric likes"?
- How can you say that "Sal does not listen" when he obviously does, gets involved, replies and explains many things that are going on?

There are a lot of polls on this forum on a lot of things people wish for and a lot of these polls get a lot of approval.
Good thing that Spyderco probably takes notice of this, and perhaps can take it a bit into account when making decisions.
But BASE their decisions on polls and wishes on this forum would be really silly.
Really not intending to offend you, but I just have to say that in this particular case your reaction and how you conduct yourself reminds me a bit of an angry child.

[StuntZombie]

Whether or not people prefer their PM 2 to be tip up or tip down is inconsequential, because they have the option to detach the clip and reattach it in their preferred orientation. Complaining that they come from the factory in the tip down position is akin to complaining that the driver's seat in your car wasn't adjusted correctly when you bought it. Both situations require a minimal amount of intelligence and effort to correct.

[Perhaps_OCD?]

EDIT: In this discussion we have confirmed the PM2 clip placement has nothing to do with customer preference. It comes tip down because that’s they way it has always been, and Eric likes it that way. It doesn’t matter that it leaves marks that are exposed when putting the clip in the position used by most of the knife industry and your other spydercos.

The several polite threads over the years with polls trying to influence Spyderco to put the clip tip up, like most other knives, won’t change a decision made based on “it’s the way it’s always been” and “Eric likes it that way”. My attempt to try a different approach and be a jerk, pointing out the failed polite attempts, and the data, will also not change a decision that has nothing to do with what customers want.

...

Still not sure if this perhaps is just a bad joke - ?!

- How can you think you can conclude what "customers" want, just based on a few polls?
- How can you think that this forum would be a place to tell Spyderco what they have to do?
- How can you think that Spyderco could have become the great (and innovative!) company they are if they´d base their decisions on "how it always has been and what Eric likes"?
- How can you say that "Sal does not listen" when he obviously does, gets involved, replies and explains many things that are going on?

There are a lot of polls on this forum on a lot of things people wish for and a lot of these polls get a lot of approval.
Good thing that Spyderco probably takes notice of this, and perhaps can take it a bit into account when making decisions.
But BASE their decisions on polls and wishes on this forum would be really silly.
Really not intending to offend you, but I just have to say that in this particular case your reaction and how you conduct yourself reminds me a bit of an angry child.

No offense taken. I am being a childish jerk about one of my 21 PM2’s, it’s just a pocket knife. You are not wrong. The clip position thing is very un Spyderco and doesn’t make sense to me, they are incredibly innovative (as seen in this copper model not needing liners for the lock). In that same red text I link 2 older Sal quotes (that were reposted on page 3) where he says it’s literally because it’s how it’s always been and and Eric’s preference. That’s ok with me, except for that it leaves marks that can’t be removed and the company that doesn’t stock parts for sprints and exclusives (I’d gladly pay them). That is not so cool.

[Cali HogHead]

and don't forget the dudes in California....are clips even legal there?

They AREN'T legal here! Unless they aren't concealed, are less than 2 inches in length, and have a rounded end.

Joking aside, your post made me laugh harder than I had all day. Thank you.

In case anyone is confused about the knife laws in California, see California Penal Code Section 17235. California does not have any size limit for folding knives concealed or openly carried so long as they're folded. If you carry it in the open and locked position it's considered a dirk or dagger which is more restricted and must be carried openly (I don't know why anyone would want to do that). Carrying a folding knife in the folded position with a clip is not a restricted at all. OTF's, full autos and switchblades are not legal. That's it.

I know it's OT, but I'm pretty sure OTF's, autos and switchblades ARE legal as long as they are sub 2 inch. Thus the "Cali legal" subset of autos.

[bdblue]

was a saber grind combo edge delica. I based everything off of that knife for draw, muscle memory says tip up for me

History as I remember it- I hope I have the details close enough for the discussion. When I first started buying knives with clips they were tip down. Spyderco's first knives with clips had molded handles with clips molded in the handles, so they had to be tip up to keep the molded in clip from interfering with the blade pivot. Later when they started making different designs they made tip down like other companies. I also remember that some of the knives available in that era had very little blade retention so could more easily open in your pocket. I ignored tip up for a long time but the Manix 2 tempted me so I ended up buying quite a few of them. Now I carry tip up and tip down interchangeably and muscle memory works both ways. For dealing with tip up I developed a special technique for getting my thumb down to where the blade hole is- I let go of the knife, quickly move my hand down a bit and re-grab the knife. It may not be the most secure movement but I haven't dropped the knife yet.

[Perhaps_OCD?]

and don't forget the dudes in California....are clips even legal there?

They AREN'T legal here! Unless they aren't concealed, are less than 2 inches in length, and have a rounded end.

Joking aside, your post made me laugh harder than I had all day. Thank you.

In case anyone is confused about the knife laws in California, see California Penal Code Section 17235. California does not have any size limit for folding knives concealed or openly carried so long as they're folded. If you carry it in the open and locked position it's considered a dirk or dagger which is more restricted and must be carried openly (I don't know why anyone would want to do that). Carrying a folding knife in the folded position with a clip is not a restricted at all. OTF's, full autos and switchblades are not legal. That's it.

I know it's OT, but I'm pretty sure OTF's, autos and switchblades ARE legal as long as they are sub 2 inch. Thus the "Cali legal" subset of autos.

They are. I enjoy my sub 2” kershaw launch 4 auto, and I’m pretty sure it is made for the CA market. Microtech makes an entire line.

I get told at the gun range my silencers and short barrel rifles are illegal all the time (they’re 100% legal in TX with the proper ATF approval). Fun times. Super sad it’s even a question of legality with knives and that there are limitations period. Bless your Californian heart.

[Frozenspyder]

I really don't care where my clip is so I don't really have an opinion on this, and I hate to be that guy... But you've been saying brass. I think that model came with copper scales. I just about had a heart attack when I thought Spyderco made a brass exclusive and I missed it. I suppose it doesn't really matter, but seeing as how this is a knife forum, we spend a fair amount of time talking about metal and know there's quite a difference between brass and copper. Anyway, I hope you can polish out those spots.

[Perhaps_OCD?]

I really don't care where my clip is so I don't really have an opinion on this, and I hate to be that guy... But you've been saying brass. I think that model came with copper scales. I just about had a heart attack when I thought Spyderco made a brass exclusive and I missed it. I suppose it doesn't really matter, but seeing as how this is a knife forum, we spend a fair amount of time talking about metal and know there's quite a difference between brass and copper. Anyway, I hope you can polish out those spots.

OMG! You are right! I have a separate brass flytanium Maxamet PM2 I’m currently building (forced patina and what not). Haha. Sorry for any confusion! The knife in this thread is copper.

[Perhaps_OCD?]

.

[Perhaps_OCD?]

My just finish brass Maxamet PM2 w/ forced patina and the copper DOC Blade HQ exclusive. The forced patina came out pretty good.

[Perhaps_OCD?]

Double tap. Sorry guys, my internet was weird.

[Airlsee]

Your knives are attractive...

This thread has long outstayed it's welcome.

[Perhaps_OCD?]

Your knives are attractive...

This thread has long outstayed it's welcome.

Thanks! And yeah, it’s just turned in to an OT thread about California laws and brass / copper. It’s time to stop.

[Jim Malone]

But what about the smell? Copper smells metallic! Especially after fondling it a lot. AHA!!!!!!! What's the use of a smelly tip up PM2?

[Airlsee]

Oops

[Airlsee]

But what about the smell? Copper smells metallic! Especially after fondling it a lot. AHA!!!!!!! What's the use of a smelly tip up PM2?

After a patina forms all over the copper it doesn't really smell all that much. I'm basing that off of a copper Tactile Turn Bolt Action I use near daily...

I don't really notice the smell anymore at least, haha!

[GautamGoel]

Spyderco: literally creates the best pocket knives in human history, using state-of-the-art steels, at fair prices.

Forum posters: tHiS iS nOt eXactLy wHat I wAnT, whine whine whine

[Xformer]

- Yes, the vast majority of people carry their knife tip-up and yes, the people from Spyderco don't listen for some stuff. They still use that cheap black paint on the Delica clip for example... If it's not stubbornness, I don't know. You're right, but since you posted your critical take on a forum of Spyderco fan, you won't get much traction.

Just a nitpick, but I disagree on the part about "It's how it has always been" though. Most of their knives got updated and CQI prove that they're open to update a knife design. The problem is they do it when THEY fell like it, not when it's needed. We're stuck on the Delica 4 for how much time now ?

Spyderco: literally creates the best pocket knives in human history, using state-of-the-art steels, at fair prices.

I bought the PM2 and while it's my daily user, I have my gripes with it. It also went through several CQI, so it's not like it never changed.

[Wartstein]

...

Just a nitpick, but I disagree on the part about "It's how it has always been" though. Most of their knives got updated and CQI prove that they're open to update a knife design. The problem is they do it when THEY fell like it, not when it's needed. We're stuck on the Delica 4 for how much time now ?

...

Who determines "when it's needed"? (Just a question, no offense!)
As an example: For me the Delica 4 is perfect as it is, paint on the clip included...

[standy99]

My just finish brass Maxamet PM2 w/ forced patina and the copper DOC Blade HQ exclusive. The forced patina came out pretty good.

So you have a forced patina on one knife but your spitting kittens about a mark on another knife..




I’m a Aussie and I am taking the P—s sort of…..