Poll: Would You Buy a K390 Military, Featuring Green Canvas Micarta and a Titanium Reeve Integral Lock?

[Woodpuppy]

Ooh, yeah good call. I appreciate that it does NOT support 4way clip mounting.

[attila]

I voted “maybe” because I really like the Military but dislike frame locks even more than liner locks.

Frame locks also add extra cost for a feature that I don’t want.

[aicolainen]

Interesting poll results so far (54 yes, 49 no). RIL seems to be pretty polarizing, I guess? Didn't think that was the case based on the thirst for a new Military on this forum.

8< -----

I don't think a RIL is very polarizing in and of it self.
For someone like me, that is only going to have one Military (at the most), and also have some understanding of what makes the Military so iconic, a RIL version is simply not interesting.
If I were a fan of the model or a collector of some kind the situation could be very different.
I also think it could have better mainstream appeal. Framelocks are still in fashion and linerlocks are somehow out of vouge, so for the uninitiated knife buyer just looking for a cool new folder, a RIL version might be the more tempting option.

8< ---------

Though I am not sure if Spyderco even CAN do a Micarta Millie and still stick to their high production standards: They had to change the PM 2 from nested to full liners for the Micarta version in order to guarantee the structural integrity, so I guess they would not do a mostly linerLESS Millie in that material...

I've been thinking the same thing. I would be very surprised if they could do a mostly linerless Millie in micarta.
I watched a YT video with Ben Peterson the other day, where he went into how WE had to recall the whole first batch of micarta Banters (partial liner) from retailers because they discovered some samples with warping issues after the knives were shipped. If it's an issue even on a small knife like the Banter, I can't imagine Spyderco would take their chances with a mostly linerless micarta Millie.

If that's the case, I guess this knife isn't for me at all. K390 would be its most appealing feature, but even that would be easily bested by MagnaCut or LC200N for my type of use.

[Wartstein]

...

As others have mentioned: I am pretty sure it is not a homerun just because of the RIL, which seems to be polarizing (I personally would like the looks, but not the weight)

I guess a linerlock Micarta Millie in K390 would get a lot more support !

Though I am not sure if Spyderco even CAN do a Micarta Millie and still stick to their high production standards: They had to change the PM 2 from nested to full liners for the Micarta version in order to guarantee the structural integrity, so I guess they would not do a mostly linerLESS Millie in that material...

I would bet the same way. They'd change to full liners, which would add weight, and probably change to a standard clip and Swiss cheese the handle for 4 way clip positioning, which would thrill some and disappoint others. I'd be in the latter camp there as well.

Yes, and the increase in weight would be a lot more percentagewise than on the PM2: The PM2 "just" went from nested to full liners with the Micarta version (I think almost no weight added??), but the Millie would go from almost no liners to full liners... it would definitely be a different knife, concerning feel in hand and carry.

[FK]

If it had liner lock and not RIL,,,,, I would purchase two.
I have the Military in S90V with carbon fiber and RIL,,,,, much prefer a CQI liner lock, smoother and more comfortable to open/close.

Regards,
FK

[kobold]

A full liner is not the end of the world if it is well perforated.

[kennethsime]

A full liner is not the end of the world if it is well perforated.

Yea, I’m fine with a little more weight in this scenario, and I’m sure Spyderco could skeletonize appropriately.

[yablanowitz]

Full liners in the C54 Sprint, even though well skeletonized, resulted in a 50% increase in weight over the original. In absolute terms it wasn't much. In relative terms, it was the difference between me as a high school gymnast doing an iron cross on the still rings and me 40 years later doing Santa pictures in an unpadded suit.

A few extra grams for full liners on the Military doesn't sound like much, but I can feel the difference between G-10 and carbon fiber in hand. Add in the RIL slab and it becomes something I personally don't want to lug around.

[ladybug93]

i've not tried k390 yet because i prefer more stainless steels. i think this would be a seriously cool knife, but likely not for me, considering the steel suggestion and (what i assume would be) a steep price point.

[Leksy]

Voted 'no' as I don't like RIL/framelock, and love micarta mostly on fixed knives (not on the Military, at least).
But totally 'yes' to k390 G10 Millie, or any other G10 sprintrun.

[MFlovejp]

Millie is simply one of the best, if not THE best liner lock I’ve ever operated. A home run that for some reason everyone wants to change, I don’t quite get it. K390 in G10 liner lock is an instant buy for me. Green would be nice.

[Nuh Nups]

Millie is simply one of the best, if not THE best liner lock I’ve ever operated. A home run that for some reason everyone wants to change, I don’t quite get it. K390 in G10 liner lock is an instant buy for me. Green would be nice.

Well said. I wasn’t sure I would like the Millie, just because I didn’t know if I would like the liner lock. Sure glad I decided to give it a try. It is definitely one of my top 3 favorite knives. I sent a video of my Knifeworks 204p Millie to a friend the other day. Just a sharpness demo after I had cleaned and sharpened it. First thing she commented on was the sound of the lock. She said, “Wow! That even SOUNDS like it’s really well made.” I chuckled a bit because I have said the exact same thing before. I wouldn’t change anything about the current model. I would just like to see more of them available in some different steels. That said, I would also buy the configuration described by the OP.

[kennethsime]

Millie is simply one of the best, if not THE best liner lock I’ve ever operated. A home run that for some reason everyone wants to change, I don’t quite get it. K390 in G10 liner lock is an instant buy for me. Green would be nice.

Yea, I didn't try a Military for a long time because of that, but I agree - it's the best liner lock I've ever used.

I probably wouldn't have suggested the RIL if Spyderco hadn't done it several times before. If I could get a hold of the RIL M4 Knifeworks exclusive I could probably just throw ann aftermarket micarta scale on there and be happy - but I'd still like K390 more!

I also agree that I'd buy a K390 Military no matter what handle they decide to put on it.

[Wartstein]

Millie is simply one of the best, if not THE best liner lock I’ve ever operated. A home run that for some reason everyone wants to change, I don’t quite get it. K390 in G10 liner lock is an instant buy for me. Green would be nice.

I am strongly against changing the Millie, the rumored Milie 2 with a comp.lock would pretty much ruin the model for me and make it less practical, less safe and less comfortable in hand.
A frame lock though is close enough to a linerlock that it would work for me, though heavier and colder in hand.

[aicolainen]

Millie is simply one of the best, if not THE best liner lock I’ve ever operated. A home run that for some reason everyone wants to change, I don’t quite get it. K390 in G10 liner lock is an instant buy for me. Green would be nice.

I am strongly against changing the Millie, the rumored Milie 2 with a comp.lock would pretty much ruin the model for me and make it less practical, less safe and less comfortable in hand.
A frame lock though is close enough to a linerlock that it would work for me, though heavier and colder in hand.

I agree with absolutely all of that, but would probably rephrase "less safe" to "less secure".
I've never experienced a comp lock to be unsafe. One could even argue it's a stronger and safer lock than a comparatively dimensioned liner lock, although that's a bit of stretch as you're not likely to take advantage of that strength difference. So what it boils down to is that the liner lock can be operated with a more secure grip on the knife and as a result you're less likely to drop it. I guess that could also be considered a safety advantage if you take secondary and tertiary effects of loosing your cutting tool into account, but with regards to direct risks (Spyderco Tropen not included) I wouldn't say liner locks are objectively safer than comp locks.

[Wartstein]

Millie is simply one of the best, if not THE best liner lock I’ve ever operated. A home run that for some reason everyone wants to change, I don’t quite get it. K390 in G10 liner lock is an instant buy for me. Green would be nice.

I am strongly against changing the Millie, the rumored Milie 2 with a comp.lock would pretty much ruin the model for me and make it less practical, less safe and less comfortable in hand.
A frame lock though is close enough to a linerlock that it would work for me, though heavier and colder in hand.

I agree with absolutely all of that, but would probably rephrase "less safe" to "less secure".
I've never experienced a comp lock to be unsafe. One could even argue it's a stronger and safer lock than a comparatively dimensioned liner lock, although that's a bit of stretch as you're not likely to take advantage of that strength difference. So what it boils down to is that the liner lock can be operated with a more secure grip on the knife and as a result you're less likely to drop it. I guess that could also be considered a safety advantage if you take secondary and tertiary effects of loosing your cutting tool into account, but with regards to direct risks (Spyderco Tropen not included) I wouldn't say liner locks are objectively safer than comp locks.

You are right, and I should be more careful with my wording (but actually my English is not that good, I really have to think in order to see the difference between the terms "safe" and "secure")

I should be more careful anyway, cause this is a "hot topic", and some people almost get offended even if one just likes a linerlock over a comp. lock generally.

So:
- YES, the comp.lock IS stronger than the linerlock.
But this - for me - has no practical implication. No Spyderco linerlock came even close to failing on me (and I can´t recall any post here where one tells that a Millie lock had failed them. But actually two that a PM2 comp.lock did)
- YES, the linerlock does NOT offer a method to absolutely keeps the fingers all the time out of the blade path, but the comp.lock DOES
But I never understood (from my personal use!) why on earth this is an issue. Especially when a knife has a choil, like the Millie
- My definition of "more secure" is certainly a very subjective one!
But if one does not need that "fingers out of the blade path thing" - and if, like it is with the comp.lock, this "fingers out of the blade path" method furthermore puts the knife in the hand in an a bit akward pinch grip that CAN lead to dropping the knife (one of the reasons why Lance Clinton did not give the Siren a comp.lock as he said): The linerlock is safer to operate:
- Why?
The knife stays more natural in hand, no finger has to go to the top of the handle
The linerlock cutout is larger and the "tab" more convenient to use
If NOT doing the fingers out of the blade path method: The linerlock offers more and a bit safer closing methods than thewcomp.lock (one reason for that: The finger that operates the locktab remains automatically at the very front of the handle, where it would be hit by choil or Ricasso normally, even with knives like the choilless Tenacious!)

Perhaps I´ll start a dedicated thread on this, including vids, so we can discuss this it in more detail

[kobold]

Some thoughts about safety and comp locks.

Operating the compression lock can result in dropping the knife, because when I want to close the blade I must reposition my fingers on the handle from a (lets say) hammer grip to a kind of a pinching grip while depressing the lock tab with my index finger. It just feels iffy even if you don't have repetitive stress syndrome, carpal tunnel syndrome, arthritis or similar condition.

In compression locks I dislike how the tip of the finger choil bounces back from my finger tip depressing the lock tab, resulting in a failed close. This is also dangerous, when I must focus on my work and can't visually check if my blade is closed or not. The Shaman is the most notorious, but it applies to the PM2 and possibly others.

The (lack of) detent strength in both liner and compression locks gets overlooked IME. It is quite weak and 'shallow'. In comparison a back lock can suck in the blade from two inches away. Again, not the safest thing in the world, depending on your carry (tip up/down, left/right, whatever) it can open in the pocket.

Also, the compression lock is not ambidextrous, due to its asymmetric design. I certainly don't want a knife with a compression lock when my dominant right hand is injured. In some situations this might be a problem.

[yablanowitz]

I personally have always felt the compression lock was left-handed, except for the Gunting and "lefty" Para2. That pinch grip to disengage the lock with the index finger has always annoyed me. Reverse the lock and that goes away. Put the tip of your index finger in the Spyderhole to control the blade and disengage the lock with your thumb. You have plenty of time to move your fingers out of the blade path since the blade is under the positive control of your finger.

[Wartstein]

I personally have always felt the compression lock was left-handed, except for the Gunting and "lefty" Para2. That pinch grip to disengage the lock with the index finger has always annoyed me. Reverse the lock and that goes away. Put the tip of your index finger in the Spyderhole to control the blade and disengage the lock with your thumb. You have plenty of time to move your fingers out of the blade path since the blade is under the positive control of your finger.

True, but one of the pros of the linerlock over the comp.lock is:
You can release a linerlock both with thumb and index finger, and actually don´t have to move fingers out of the way - cause the finger with which you release the lock (as said, indexfinger or thumb) is positioned at the very front end of the handle automatically, and thus hit by choil or "ricasso", and not the edge. (Of course the fingers COULD easily be moved out of the way if one chooses to do so)

See below these two short clips I made some time ago. Works even with the choilless Tenacious, now imagine this with a "choiled" Millie: No danger at all for the fingers, and a lot more convenient to operate than a comp lock (larger cutout and locktab in a more natural position)
Overall just a better solution for me, as cool and ingenious the comp.lock certainly is, plus a linerlock handle usually is less "hotspotty" than a comp.lock handle

https://streamable.com/nygr5m

https://streamable.com/8z3798

[yablanowitz]

I dislike the "drop shut" feature that so many here find desireable. I don't want a razor sharp blade swinging free regardless of handle design, choils or any other feature. YMMV.