More affordable compression lock knives

[Wartstein]

i'm pretty sure all cuts are user error, but this was from playing with my chicago. to be fair, i've opened and closed liner/frame lock knives thousands of times and this is the only time i've been bit by one. it wasn't that bad of a cut, but man did it bleed forever. it's far less probable to cut yourself when your fingers are never in the path of the blade.

i'm not saying liner locks are unsafe. i'm just saying they're not as safe as comp locks because your thumb has to be in the blade path to disengage the lock. even if you never cut yourself because you're more careful than i was, that doesn't change the objective fact that one requires fingers in the blade path and one doesn't.

Ouuch, this must have hurt! / and thanks for sharing!

I should have started a dedicated "pros and cons of liner- / comp. locks" thread in the first place, probably I will, so this does not get all over the place (my fault!)

- To be clear: I DO like the comp.lock, but in my use more on smaller, urban style knives

- I apologize should I have gotten offensive! I just have a feeling that many people (obviously not you!) never REALLY gave a GOOD linerlock a chance, not experience all the pros it just does have, and just after that form an opinion. It is the locktype seen by many (perhaps not on this forum) as "cheap", outdated, inferior, from the get go. It is one of those knife myths for me.

- Also in my use: It is certainly true that the comp.lock is safer in one of several aspects of safety, but for me more under "laboratory conditions": The fingers CAN be kept all the time out of the blade path (like they can with backlock and CBBL), but in using the underlying method one reduces another aspect of safety: How safe the knife is in hand while operating the lock.
Is it likely that one drops the knife when operating a comp lock with the "pinch grip fingers all the time out of the blade path" technique? And then perhaps drop the knife into their foot? NO, not at all!! But it does happen very rarely (more than one account on this forum for example...), as well as it obviously does happen very rarely that one cuts themselves with a linerlock.
All other methods of closing (fingers IN the blade path) are a bit safer with a LINERlock - if you combine WHERE the fingers sit while closing and how safe the knife is in hand / how much repositioning of the fingers is necessary.
Is this a big deal? Again, NO. But of course we are discussing fine details here!

- In the combination of all aspects of safety ("fingers", "in hand", "in pocket", "likeliness of disengaging accidently in use" and so on) in my personal experience or just specific use scenario the linerlock is just "better" and safer overall than the comp.lock for me.
And actually I don´t "have to be careful" in order to not get cut with a linerlock knife, not even with one without a choil like the Tenacious: As can be seen in my vids, actually the edge just never could hit my fingers, especially with a thumb release.
Add that for me the linerlock is more natural and convenient to operate and more comfortable in hand (I am not a fan of the comp. lock cutout when it comes to ergos) and you might understand why I prefer it. Like many love the linerlock on the Millie for perhaps similar reasons.

- Anyway: Great that Spyderco has locktypes for any taste and any scenario! :)
All I want is that people REALLY and unbiased try a GOOD linerlock for themselves and don´t believe a priory the youtube babble (I am NOT (!) referring to you, my friend! :) )

[Wartstein]

Linerlock and comp.lock are just two alternatives, both good, but I personally happen to have experienced clearly more advantages in the linerlock.

as vivi said: "I have nothing to say on this topic, but I can't walk past so as not to throw in my two cents"
(not literally, but roughly keeping the meaning)

The more I read Wartstein, the more I agree with him. Not that he convinced me. Rather, his opinion agrees with my opinion.

The Lock liner is also convenient for me. I thought about it for a long time. My first Spyderco knife was with a backlock. It was very difficult to fold it with one hand. It is almost impossible to do this. Then I bought a second Spyderco knife, then a third, and so on. And these knives were with a lock liner lock. It was very convenient to fold with one hand. When about 60 Spyderco knives passed through my hands, only then I got my first knife with complock.
And then I said to myself: "This is inconvenient." But I was wrong. It was "unusual".

And there is no better or worse.
Any lock Matter

Hey Viacheslav [could you be so kind and tell me again how to write your name exactly? I can´t recall... :o ]!

Thanks, and yes, I guess we agree on that the liner-/frame lock is (for us) the most convenient to use of the "main" Spyderco locktypes!
I sometimes think if there had never been a linerlock, but all other locktypes, and THEN Spyderco brought out the linerlock as a great, very comfortable innovation, people would appreciate it a lot more... :rolleyes:

/ Now on the backlock: Since you are a Police (I mean the folder ) guy, I am sure meanwhile you are proficient with one handed closing of a backlock?
Not AS convenient as with a linerlock, and takes a bit more getting used to, but still very comfortable - here are three vids I made some time ago with several backlock closing methods (each one time slow, two times regular speed). Of course there are more ways of one handed closing.

https://streamable.com/j7fjd

https://streamable.com/bhhzs

https://streamable.com/myzlt

[Menipo]

Folks, I am actually a bit surprised
While I clearly state the for me (!) the linerlock is overall clearly better than the comp.lock (and I have good reasoning, see below), you state the opposite as if it was a fact (comp.lock "better") - when this is all subjective and of course on a discussion forum people will always have differing views.

Wartstein, my dear friend: reading your posts in this thread (and this one in particular) makes me think of those kamikaze drivers going one way while the rest of the cars go the other way on a collision course. :rolleyes: :D

All said without the intention of offending and in the greatest friendship, you know. :)

[Wartstein]

Folks, I am actually a bit surprised
While I clearly state the for me (!) the linerlock is overall clearly better than the comp.lock (and I have good reasoning, see below), you state the opposite as if it was a fact (comp.lock "better") - when this is all subjective and of course on a discussion forum people will always have differing views.

Wartstein, my dear friend: reading your posts in this thread (and this one in particular) makes me think of those kamikaze drivers going one way while the rest of the cars go the other way on a collision course. :rolleyes: :D

All said without the intention of offending and in the greatest friendship, you know. :)

Thanks, my friend, and I totally know how you mean this! :)

I actually made a mistake by putting my thoughts not in a more structured, brief way and this in a dedicated thread, and not as replies to posts all over the place.

But I am just being honest:
Believe me, I 100% expected to like the comp.lock more than the linerlock and find it "better" when I first tried the comp.lock (I knew the liner lock pretty well at this point already), just from all the praise I have had heard already.
But it just did not happen that way. In MY (!) personal use, really unexpectedly, it showed by just instinctively using the knives as well as by logic considerations that the linerlock works better for me - and is safer too - than the comp. lock. (Sidenote: Quite the opposite happened concerning serrations to me: I totally expected to NOT like them as universally usable edge type from all I have had heard. But then, in real use, it just showed to be really different for me and actually shallow ffg SE the "better PE" for me]

And I never say something else. Just, that for ME this is the case and that I have reasoning for it indeed. And all more as replies to others who are at least implying that the comp.lock has to be objectively better. While, if one sets up categories (feel in hand, least repositioning of the fingers and many more) the liner lock might "win" many of these categories for not too few people (and sure might NOT "win" for others).

I am not specifically referring to this forum (!), but the "linerlock is outdated and inferior" thing imho is one of the most repeated knife myths. Many just repeat it without ever really having tried a GOOD linerlock and a good comp.lock totally unbiased for themselves in various conditions and then formed an opinion.
Main argument for the comp.lock are that "fingers out of the blade path", "more fidgety" and "stronger"thing
All three happen to be totally irrelevant in my personal use, and I would not sacrifice the advantages the linerlock has for those comp.lock features.
And I think many just think the "fingers out of the blade path" thing is the most important in the world, while it might absolutely not if they gave the linerlock a fair chance.

Funnily, IF people try iconic knives with linerlocks, they suddenly do like it often: Main example: Military - for many a "hard use", outdoor knife - and the linerlock suddenly IS strong and safe enough and gets praise for its high userfriendlyness, especially with gloves...

[Menipo]

Thanks, my friend, and I totally know how you mean this! :)

I actually made a mistake by putting my thoughts not in a more structured, brief way and this in a dedicated thread, and not as replies to posts all over the place.

But I am just being honest:
[...]

Of course! I would had never questioned your honesty! With the allegory of the kamikaze driver I was simply objectively describing a situation in terms of who / how many were going in one direction and who / how many were going the other way.

For me, speaking again objectively and without referring to personal tastes, the comp lock is the ONLY one that allows you to close the knife without having your fingers in the path of the blade AT ANY MOMENT. And for me and many others that is an undeniable value

To be exact, it is not the only one because your method of closing a lockback by pressing the dent with the index finger also allows you to have your fingers out of the way at any moment. But that system implies having to use a handle grip exactly the same as the one required by the comp lock (so in terms of avoiding the risk of the knife falling to the ground, it does not add anything) and, moreover, requires to have an enormous force in the fingers (typical of a climber like you). "Your" system also requires, for working properly, that the spring is not too hard. The Police 3 I bought recently is so hard that even pressing with my thumb it is sometimes difficult for me to depress it enough to close the knife.

Depressing the dent and letting the blade drop on the finger taking advantage of the ricasso or any other non-sharped end part, then changing the grip and completing the closing, has its own risks. There are knives that are sharp to the end and if you are used to that method because you usually do it with knives that do not have it but one day you forget and execute the maneuver with one that does, disaster is assured. I speak from experience ...

Depressing the dent with the thumb and moving the blade with the finger in the Spydie hole a little bit to disengage it, then changing the grip and completing the closing requires also that during the first steps of the manoeuvre you have three fingers in the path of the blade...

So (1) if you don't have climber fingers and (2) you place a lot of value on not having your fingers in the path of the blade at any time (and I stress this) I am afraid that the comp lock is the only alternative. Objectively speaking. That is the reason for my preference.

[Wartstein]

...

....

For me, speaking again objectively and without referring to personal tastes, the comp lock is the ONLY one that allows you to close the knife without having your fingers in the path of the blade AT ANY MOMENT. And for me and many others that is an undeniable value

To be exact, it is not the only one because your method of closing a lockback by pressing the dent with the index finger also allows you to have your fingers out of the way at any moment......

So (1) if you don't have climber fingers and (2) you place a lot of value on not having your fingers in the path of the blade at any time (and I stress this) I am afraid that the comp lock is the only alternative. Objectively speaking. That is the reason for my preference.

We´re discussing this in the "wrong" thread I am afraid :o , but so be it :

1.) Don´t you forget the CBBL? Can also be closed with fingers all the time out of the blade path, but does not have the comp.lock disadvantages (which would be for example: Not ambidextrous, less safe in pocket, less safe generally when closing since the blade does not stay firmly in a "half closed" position most of the time, less ergonomic due to the cutout on top of the handle, small cutout and lock tab..)

2.) I don´t think closing a backlock with fingers all the time out of the blade path is all about strength (but yes, certainly to some degree!!) but more about technique and willingness to practice a bit
And I am not saying that the backlock fingersoutofthebladepath technique is BETTER than the comp.lock one!
Just, that it can ALSO be done with a backlock plus this lock has more additional perfectly (for me) safe and convenient closing methods

3.) I totally respect (of course!) your and others preferences!! But I still don´t see how on earth one would cut oneself with a linerlock knife, at least if the blade has a choil!
I mean, YES, there will be worst-case-one-in a -million-time exceptions!
BUT: This also true for the comp.lock! One in a million time one will NOT put all fingers really out of the bladepath but accidently leave one little part of one finger on the downside of the handle, and then that super free dropping Shaman blade will come down like a Guillotine...
I guess what I am trying to say is: ALL methods have the potential of failure, so also the "comp lock-fingers-out-of-the-blade-path" techique. And for me this is as likely (or un-likely) as using a linerlock wrong.
And as said. With all other methods, which keep the knife safer in hand additionally, for me the linerlock is more natural and safer, as are CBBL and backlock, since there the blade does not get as "floppy" as with a comp.lock.

Anyway, to each their own!! :)

I can just say: My opinion comes from my own real experience and extensive use of both lock types and is what it is for me personally. I´d always take a linerlock over a comp.lock in a more hard use, bigger, "outdoorsy" knife, especially for safety-, but also for comfort-reasons.
And I´d 100% own a Caribbean and most likely a Shaman if they only came with a linerlock instead of a comp.lock.
(BUT: I´d LOVE to own a (comp.lock!!) Sage 5 LW and certainly eventually will! :) )

[Menipo]

We´re discussing this in the "wrong" thread I am afraid :o , but so be it :

1.) Don´t you forget the CBBL? Can also be closed with fingers all the time out of the blade path, but does not have the comp.lock disadvantages (which would be for example: Not ambidextrous, less safe in pocket, less safe generally when closing since the blade does not stay firmly in a "half closed" position most of the time, less ergonomic due to the cutout on top of the handle, small cutout and lock tab..)

[...]

No, I hadn't thought of the CBBL because I've never tried it. You are right.

I have been a dozen times about to buy the Manix 2 LW SPY-27 because it would allow me to kill three birds with one shot (fill three gaps in my collection with a single knife: a basic model which I lack (Manix), a lock I never used (CBBL) and a steel I never tried (SPY-27)). But I have never made up my mind because I have read on the forum some threads on the malfunctioning of the CBBL.

[Menipo]

Double post

[Menipo]

Triple post

[Menipo]

Quadruple post. My computer must have gone crazy. Sorry for the mess.

[Wartstein]

No, I hadn't thought of the CBBL because I've never tried it. You are right.

I have been a dozen times about to buy the Manix 2 LW SPY-27 because it would allow me to kill three birds with one shot (fill three gaps in my collection with a single knife: a basic model which I lack (Manix), a lock I never used (CBBL) and a steel I never tried (SPY-27)). But I have never made up my mind because I have read on the forum some threads on the malfunctioning of the CBBL.

What kind of malfunctioning?! I believe you of course, but can´t recall ever reading something like this myself... :confused:
The CBBL is a really strong and reliable lock type imho, just by construction and how it actually works.

Perhaps you mean that the old, clear cages could crack in very rare occasions when the knife got dropped? They are replaced with the sturdier black ones for quite some time now!

Anyway, I have quite some experience with the CBBL - always perfectly functional, no blade play, solid lockup, great action... (so just like the comp.lock in that regards!)

You should really try the Manix 2 LW!! :) I think you´d like it!

[Menipo]

What kind of malfunctioning?! I believe you of course, but can´t recall ever reading something like this myself... :confused:
The CBBL is a really strong and reliable lock type imho, just by construction and how it actually works.

Perhaps you mean that the old, clear cages could crack in very rare occasions when the knife got dropped? They are replaced with the sturdier black ones for quite some time now!

Anyway, I have quite some experience with the CBBL - always perfectly functional, no blade play, solid lockup, great action... (so just like the comp.lock in that regards!)

You should really try the Manix 2 LW!! :) I think you´d like it!

Craking (and worn out) of the ball was one of the problems that I remembered. Other was the ball getting stuck. I think that Julia reported that problem or something similar.

I will follow your advice and try the Manix 2 LW SPY-27. The only con that I identify from the pictures is that the wire clip does not allow deep carry. That's an inconvenience for me considering that the color of the knife makes it stand out even more than the black one if I am wearing jeans. I guess I'll have to swap the clip with the one from the UKPN ....

[skeeg11]

What kind of malfunctioning?! I believe you of course, but can´t recall ever reading something like this myself... :confused:
The CBBL is a really strong and reliable lock type imho, just by construction and how it actually works.

Perhaps you mean that the old, clear cages could crack in very rare occasions when the knife got dropped? They are replaced with the sturdier black ones for quite some time now!

Anyway, I have quite some experience with the CBBL - always perfectly functional, no blade play, solid lockup, great action... (so just like the comp.lock in that regards!)

You should really try the Manix 2 LW!! :) I think you´d like it!

Craking (and worn out) of the ball was one of the problems that I remembered. Other was the ball getting stuck. I think that Julia reported that problem or something similar.

I will follow your advice and try the Manix 2 LW SPY-27. The only con that I identify from the pictures is that the wire clip does not allow deep carry. That's an inconvenience for me considering that the color of the knife makes it stand out even more than the black one if I am wearing jeans. I guess I'll have to swap the clip with the one from the UKPN ....

What you want do is order the wire clip for the Foundry from SFO.

[Wartstein]

...

Craking (and worn out) of the ball was one of the problems that I remembered. Other was the ball getting stuck. I think that Julia reported that problem or something similar.

.....

I can´t believe that the ball of the newer CBBLs could ever wear out or crack - ?! Never, ever heard of this, but rather that the CBBL is perhaps the most "problemfree" locktype overall... could be wrong though! But it is certainly not a common problem at all (perhaps you mean the detent ball on liner- and comp.locks?!)

I think Julias problem with that Manix was something that went wrong in the factory while producing the knife and was fixed by Spyderco.

One thing that can happen with the FRCP / lightweight Manixes: Less than ideal action! While the three I had were/are all fine (free dropping) there seem to be quite a few with rather stiff action! So I´d make sure that the dealer checks this for you and sends you a good one.

Can´t help concerning a deep carry clip (but Skeeg 11 did already! :) ) - "deep carry" is just not for me, so I never looked for a clip that would offer this.

[Gtscotty]

i'm pretty sure all cuts are user error, but this was from playing with my chicago. to be fair, i've opened and closed liner/frame lock knives thousands of times and this is the only time i've been bit by one. it wasn't that bad of a cut, but man did it bleed forever. it's far less probable to cut yourself when your fingers are never in the path of the blade.

i'm not saying liner locks are unsafe. i'm just saying they're not as safe as comp locks because your thumb has to be in the blade path to disengage the lock. even if you never cut yourself because you're more careful than i was, that doesn't change the objective fact that one requires fingers in the blade path and one doesn't.

Concur, I did very nearly the same thing with my Tenacious a long time ago. Some designs like that are a more likely to get you than others, even if it's all user error.

[Menipo]

What you want do is order the wire clip for the Foundry from SFO.

Thanks, Skeeg!

You referred to the Foundry for any special reason? I though that all models which mount the wire clip (Foundry, Lil' Native, UKPN) sport the very same version (the same clip).

[Menipo]

I can´t believe that the ball of the newer CBBLs could ever wear out or crack - ?! Never, ever heard of this, but rather that the CBBL is perhaps the most "problemfree" locktype overall... could be wrong though! But it is certainly not a common problem at all (perhaps you mean the detent ball on liner- and comp.locks?!)

I think Julias problem with that Manix was something that went wrong in the factory while producing the knife and was fixed by Spyderco.

One thing that can happen with the FRCP / lightweight Manixes: Less than ideal action! While the three I had were/are all fine (free dropping) there seem to be quite a few with rather stiff action! So I´d make sure that the dealer checks this for you and sends you a good one.

Can´t help concerning a deep carry clip (but Skeeg 11 did already! :) ) - "deep carry" is just not for me, so I never looked for a clip that would offer this.

No. It wasn't the detent ball. It was the ball or the cage. I don't remember exactly.

Sacrebleu! I was about to pull the triger and your comment makes me hesitate again.

The Manix would be, for now and like all my Spydies (except the Endela), a toy for soft use and, above all, fidgeting. The resident users for now are the Meadowlark (in the small category) and the Endela (for bigger tasks).

If there is a risk of stiff action, then I'm not so sure anymore. Asking the seller to check it before sending it doesn't work sometimes. I tried that with K&T once and they said they couldn't do it because often judgements on "action" imply a very subjective opinion. They would send me one of the units they had in stock and if I didn't like the action, I could return it (at their cost). But even for free, the return is a hassle, so I prefer no take (much) risks.

[JRinFL]

Menipo, you must give the Manix a try. Perhaps you can find one on the Swap. I don’t think anyone here would deliberately steer you wrong on the function of the knife, so your risk is lower.

BTW, most would consider the Manix as something much more than soft use!

[skeeg11]

What you want do is order the wire clip for the Foundry from SFO.

Thanks, Skeeg!

You referred to the Foundry for any special reason? I though that all models which mount the wire clip (Foundry, Lil' Native, UKPN) sport the very same version (the same clip).

Wire clips are not all the same length. You want the wire clip to contact the smooth Spyderco logo portion of the handle for less pocket wear.

[Menipo]

Menipo, you must give the Manix a try. Perhaps you can find one on the Swap. I don’t think anyone here would deliberately steer you wrong on the function of the knife, so your risk is lower.

BTW, most would consider the Manix as something much more than soft use!

Many thanks for the recommendation, JRinFL. If you and my friend Wartstein agree on this, I have to give it a try. Definitely. I will order a new one from one of the European Internet stores. I can get the Manix LW SPY-27 for 165 euros (some 200 USD at today's rate of exchange).

The Swap is a good idea but as I live in Europe it would be very complicate for any US forumite sending me his Manix and a hassle for me transferring the price (as we cannot use credit cards). Paperwork at the customs, custom duties and the alike are a nightmare when the merchandise is a knife and it enters the EU common custom area and the sender is not a merchant.

Thanks again.