Sal - What's next for the Military?

[VashHash]

Maybe push the curve on the hump back a little to give more real estate. Not sure what gloves these were intended for but with thin dips I fit easily in the confines of the handle. With driver /leather gloves I'm using the choil for a more comfortable grip. I can "squeeze" my fingers into the handle but it's very uncomfortable.

[wrdwrght]

Given that Sal has said the current Military Model isn’t going anywhere, I’m not particularly disturbed at the wishes, wants, and dreams expressed here. I might even get a Military2 with the right combination of attributes. Don’t know yet what they might be.

[Dazen]

I would love to see Fluted CF on the show side and a RIL Fluted Ti for the lock side with Damascus Cladded S90V!

[Doc Dan]

I was thinking back to my Army days. Sometimes I would take my Buck and use the pommel to pound in a small stake while building a shelter. I wonder if the extended pommel on the Millie could be made of hardened steel or Titanium so it could be used for light pounding? Then, it would really be useful.

[Fireman]

Sal. Just read your post. A
coincidentally earlier today I emailed your guy about getting my original breaker to you guys. I just got it a few days ago. Was away for a couple months training down south.

Hey Vivi,

I guess that's a good question. Eric was working on the 2" version. The original "2" version had a stop-lock and broke at a very high number. Then Eric worked up a "2" version with a Compression lock that he hasn't put into queue. Some minor design mods. One of our forumites, "Fireman" was asking for a Rescue version for which I have a drawing and a plastic model. He wanted a barb wire breaker, which we'e still researching. Baron Mind is asking for a Military with a different handle.

The Military model was a special knife, light and tough with a large blade. Good with gloves to open and close. Something that would be a good back-up for a soldier. I had originally planned to use it a a platform for steel variations, but we ended up making steel variations in many models. We did use it to offer the first CPM blade in production back in the '90's.

We would keep the original Military model in the line even if/when we offer other variation(s). I believe the design meets the original requirement better than other designs. However, newer variations may have a different requirement?

So, Vivi, since you started the thread, let's see what others, and you might want?

sal

Thank you Sal!

I'm looking forward to Military 2 with compression lock, and I'm really happy that the original Military stays in line - it's my favorite knife.
Let original Military live!
Military forever y'all! :)

[Wartstein]

I was thinking back to my Army days. Sometimes I would take my Buck and use the pommel to pound in a small stake while building a shelter. I wonder if the extended pommel on the Millie could be made of hardened steel or Titanium so it could be used for light pounding? Then, it would really be useful.

Not a bad idea at all!
But in SUCH a Millie I´d really want an a bit sturdier tip - would be a great, large hard use folder (YES, I DO think a good linerlock can take "hard use" )

[Wartstein]

Maybe push the curve on the hump back a little to give more real estate. Not sure what gloves these were intended for but with thin dips I fit easily in the confines of the handle. With driver /leather gloves I'm using the choil for a more comfortable grip. I can "squeeze" my fingers into the handle but it's very uncomfortable.

...

Interesting!

Can´t recall how this was on my Millie for my L to XL hands (in gloves)...
Anyway, the main "glove related" advantage of the Millie was the linerlock and how easy it is to operate then (as it is now in my Tenacious S35VN - I guess I´ll have to start a dedicated thread "plea for the linerlock": I feel it is very underrated and people assume it´d be "outdated", "oldschool" or even "unsafe" who never really tested a good one (like the Millie certainly has))

[Evil D]

I really wouldn't blame Spyderco for not putting any more R&D into the current Military. For one, it's about as perfect as it can be without making significant changes that would really push it into being a new design, like adding full liners or adding 4 way clip options. I'm curious how that part will go because even adding skeletonized liners is going to increase the weight, and it used to be that the only way we could have a 4 way clip option was to have those liners, but now they're using the screw anchors embedded into the G10/FRN so it seems there's no need for full liners anymore...we could even see a full linerLESS Military in the future?

One thing that I'd take any bet that will be changed is the finger choil...it's very much "old Spyderco" in design. I think if you want a preview of how the choil is going to change, just look at the Paramilitary vs the Para 2, or to a lesser degree the Stretch 1 vs Stretch 2. The choil will be made bigger and more roomy with a more pronounced point separating it from the rest of the handle. I had my SE Military out last night and after about 3 years of not using one, it really stuck out to me that the choil is practically unusable, it's so small that my finger barely fits into it and it just felt strange to me trying to choke up on it.

What's really surprising is if you compare the grip area of a Military to the Caribbean, I always thought of the Military as being one of the more roomy grips but it's far more cramped than the Caribbean. Basically if you removed the choil on the Military and extended the grip out to the end of the handle, that's the size of a Caribbean grip. I guess that's why the choil feels funny to me now.

Wow...it's honestly a sad moment of clarity I'm having right now sitting here comparing the two as I type this. As much as the Military has always been one of my favorite designs, I have to say overall it pales in comparison to the Caribbean. Not only is the grip better for me but the Caribbean still has that "locked in" feeling that the Military has from the hook on the rear handle but it also packs just as much cutting edge in a smaller folded size.

So yeah...for the first time I think I've jumped sides and I have to say, you guys who want a Military 2 or whatever changes, go for it. I think maybe it's time for some changes. That's a hard pill to swallow

[Steeltoez83]

I think the design is fine. Removing the choil I can see that as an upgrade to a certain degree. I'm personally looking for the dark gray g10, stonewashed blade, and the word maxamet written on one.

[Doc Dan]

The Military is the only knife I like the choil on. Funny the differences of hands that we all have.

[Doc Dan]

I really wouldn't blame Spyderco for not putting any more R&D into the current Military. For one, it's about as perfect as it can be without making significant changes that would really push it into being a new design, like adding full liners or adding 4 way clip options. I'm curious how that part will go because even adding skeletonized liners is going to increase the weight, and it used to be that the only way we could have a 4 way clip option was to have those liners, but now they're using the screw anchors embedded into the G10/FRN so it seems there's no need for full liners anymore...we could even see a full linerLESS Military in the future?

One thing that I'd take any bet that will be changed is the finger choil...it's very much "old Spyderco" in design. I think if you want a preview of how the choil is going to change, just look at the Paramilitary vs the Para 2, or to a lesser degree the Stretch 1 vs Stretch 2. The choil will be made bigger and more roomy with a more pronounced point separating it from the rest of the handle. I had my SE Military out last night and after about 3 years of not using one, it really stuck out to me that the choil is practically unusable, it's so small that my finger barely fits into it and it just felt strange to me trying to choke up on it.

What's really surprising is if you compare the grip area of a Military to the Caribbean, I always thought of the Military as being one of the more roomy grips but it's far more cramped than the Caribbean. Basically if you removed the choil on the Military and extended the grip out to the end of the handle, that's the size of a Caribbean grip. I guess that's why the choil feels funny to me now.

Wow...it's honestly a sad moment of clarity I'm having right now sitting here comparing the two as I type this. As much as the Military has always been one of my favorite designs, I have to say overall it pales in comparison to the Caribbean. Not only is the grip better for me but the Caribbean still has that "locked in" feeling that the Military has from the hook on the rear handle but it also packs just as much cutting edge in a smaller folded size.

So yeah...for the first time I think I've jumped sides and I have to say, you guys who want a Military 2 or whatever changes, go for it. I think maybe it's time for some changes. That's a hard pill to swallow

That is interesting. I would appreciate a picture showing the size difference. I like the choil on the Military, if I have to have one, and it is the only choil I like on any knife. I like that the Caribbean has no choil and now you tell me the handle has more room. This is getting better and better.

One issue that I have heard is the Caribbean has a very weak detent. Is this true? Is there a way to fix that problem?

I need to take a closer look at that knife.

I agree with you about the handle being a bit cramped. One of the reasons I prefer the Endura is because it has a whole lot more real estate in the actual grippable area of the handle for my hand. All I need do is flatten out that first bump and I am good to go.

[abbazaba]

K390, 10v, Satin or DLC for the current model would be great!

I agree that a tip up clip option would widen the appeal. I have been drilling mine for tip up carry but most people don't want to deal with that.

I'm fine with the liner lock, but a compression lock does seem fitting. FWIW the Framelock Ti/CF is my favorite version.

Here's my pair of tip up M4 Frankenmillies :)

[Wartstein]

...
One thing that I'd take any bet that will be changed is the finger choil...it's very much "old Spyderco" in design. I think if you want a preview of how the choil is going to change, just look at the Paramilitary vs the Para 2, or to a lesser degree the Stretch 1 vs Stretch 2. ...

The Military is the only knife I like the choil on. Funny the differences of hands that we all have.

I am totally with you, Doc! For me the Millie has the best choil of all Spydies I tried, together with Stretch 1 (not "2") and in a way Kapara.

Shallower choils usually give me more control and are still more than safe enough, shorter choils let the hand be closer to the edge when not choked up... and both Millie and Stretch have choils still long enough for my not really small fingers...

/ But, David: Perhaps for me the Carribean still could also be the "better Millie" if it only got the Millie linerlock. For me this sure would be an upgrade.

[vivi]

Works for me as is but I could see a bigger one being superior for gloved use.

[Evil D]

That is interesting. I would appreciate a picture showing the size difference. I like the choil on the Military, if I have to have one, and it is the only choil I like on any knife. I like that the Caribbean has no choil and now you tell me the handle has more room. This is getting better and better.

One issue that I have heard is the Caribbean has a very weak detent. Is this true? Is there a way to fix that problem?

I need to take a closer look at that knife.

I agree with you about the handle being a bit cramped. One of the reasons I prefer the Endura is because it has a whole lot more real estate in the actual grippable area of the handle for my hand. All I need do is flatten out that first bump and I am good to go.

Well...I really don't say all that lightly, because the Military is Spyderco royalty as far as I'm concerned, and for the most part I'm one of it's biggest supporters.


Ergonomics are hard to convey in pics but hopefully these help.


Military



Caribbean




With some light/medium/heavy work gloves:

Military





Caribbean







I've also lost 65 pounds, and my hands are significantly leaner than they used to be. None of my rings fit me anymore.


Also, it seems like me and Vivi have pretty much the same size hands.

[Evil D]

.....

.......

This really sums it up:




The other thread asking for a Military with a different handle shape....well there it is. Military edge length minus the choil and with as little handle as necessary.

[archangel]

The Military is the only knife I like the choil on. Funny the differences of hands that we all have.

My left hand is even completey different from my right hand! :eek: Thumb is totally on the other end and all...

OT off......

[Wartstein]

.....

.......

This really sums it up:




The other thread asking for a Military with a different handle shape....well there it is. Military edge length minus the choil and with as little handle as necessary.

Yes, but still not with the Millie linerlock...

[Doc Dan]

.....

.......

This really sums it up:




The other thread asking for a Military with a different handle shape....well there it is. Military edge length minus the choil and with as little handle as necessary.

Thanks! That picture really shows how much more grip area the Caribbean has. That is something to really think about. Like you and Vivi, I have small dainty hands. :p :D

How is the detent?

[vivi]

Manix XL is similar. It's a big handle, but has less space for my hand than my Pacific Salts.

I've never run into a situation where the current Military handle didn't work for me. Even with winter gloves I've made it work.

I do appreciate designs that maximize the grip real estate. Its one of the reasons I find myself carrying my Pacific Salt a bit more often than the Siren. Both are great, and roughly the same size folded up, but the Pacific Salt gives my hand much more space.