Spyderco MSRP Increase for 2021?

[ladybug93]

Wow. Pacific salt 2 price increased $25 knocking it off my wish list. It was such a good value for $101.

that's really a shame. it's honestly the only knife i need, even though i have and carry many others.


this is what blows my mind about this practice and the justifications in this thread and that pop up each year. is spyderco really going to discontinue the delica and endura? those models are very much spyderco. i think of those when i think of spyderco even before the golden models they are known for. i can't imagine a time when they are gone from the lineup because the price keeps rising every year and they are no longer a good value (that actually already happened for me a few years ago, honestly).

fwiw, i did just buy a new delica for over $100 and it's even vg10, but it was special enough for me to spend the money. i can't imagine these models have much longer to live with these prices.

[araneae]

This begs the question, does Spyderco begin to abandon Japanese production to make the knives affordable for the average buyer? Move to Taiwan? To China? If the quality was the same level, would you buy a vg-10 Delica made in China if it meant a $10 savings? How about $15 or $25 savings?

What would the price be if those same models came to Golden, maybe used BD1N? Does Golden have the capacity?

In recent years I have bought almost every variant of the Dragonfly 2, but the K390 I bought used as it was what I considered "too expensive" to buy new. This is the only model that I collect in this fashion, and I buy them to use. It was when I saw the K390 price tag that I started thinking, maybe I will have to start skipping variants, or looking for used models that offer more value. The Dragonfly is a lot of knife in a small package, but as it creeps each year toward $100 I am drawing the line.

I am not opposed to Chinese made knives if the quality is there, and I know it can be. I'd rather they were made in Japan or the US, but I have to draw a line somewhere on what I am comfortable paying.

[JRinFL]

Interesting questions, and best spun off into its own thread. Maybe?

I could potentially see the next version of some of the Japanese models being moved to the US or to Taiwan. If sales of the bread and butter models drop off too far, something will need to change. It would be a shame to lose them entirely, but I'd rather that then move production to China.

[Cl1ff]

I find the k390 variants of many Japanese’s models like the Delica to hold a lot of value still.
Maybe I’m alone, but design is the most valuable aspect of any knife to me and that is what determines if I’m interested or not.
Price is always second to design.
Value is possibly the most individually unique concept and I can understand how difficult it must be for Spyderco to assess what the consumers’ collectively value because of that unpredictably.

[Menipo]

I find the k390 variants of many Japanese’s models like the Delica to hold a lot of value still.
Maybe I’m alone, but design is the most valuable aspect of any knife to me and that is what determines if I’m interested or not.
Price is always second to design.
Value is possibly the most individually unique concept and I can understand how difficult it must be for Spyderco to assess what the consumers’ collectively value because of that unpredictably.

One can afford to devote funds and resources to a project that later fails because it did not connect with the wishes of its clients. But if that is repeated with any frequency, disaster is inevitable.

I tend to believe that after 45 years on the road folks at Spyderco have a quite good knowledge of what their customers value ... Otherwise they would have disappeared from the map long time ago.

[Blnd]

This begs the question, does Spyderco begin to abandon Japanese production to make the knives affordable for the average buyer? Move to Taiwan? To China? If the quality was the same level, would you buy a vg-10 Delica made in China if it meant a $10 savings? How about $15 or $25 savings?

What would the price be if those same models came to Golden, maybe used BD1N? Does Golden have the capacity?

In recent years I have bought almost every variant of the Dragonfly 2, but the K390 I bought used as it was what I considered "too expensive" to buy new. This is the only model that I collect in this fashion, and I buy them to use. It was when I saw the K390 price tag that I started thinking, maybe I will have to start skipping variants, or looking for used models that offer more value. The Dragonfly is a lot of knife in a small package, but as it creeps each year toward $100 I am drawing the line.

I am not opposed to Chinese made knives if the quality is there, and I know it can be. I'd rather they were made in Japan or the US, but I have to draw a line somewhere on what I am comfortable paying.

I won’t purchase a Chinese produced Spyderco, ever. For now Taiwan is OK.

I’m in agreement with you regarding the Dragonfly. I’ve been a dedicated user for a decade, but $70+ for a VG-10 offering is close to my limit.

I WOULD buy (and spend considerably more) for a DF2 with a USA made steel in normal production FRN colors- no questions asked - I’d buy a couple for spares too. I just paid $95 for an CTS XHP FRN chaparral made in Taiwan. Zero qualms about that purchase.

[cali]

Spyderco invests in interesting, innovative, but sometimes also weird and gimmicky knives. Spyderco releases many new versions of knives every year. Somebody has to take care of all of that - NPD/NPI costs are rising. There are also problems with rapidly developed products. That is completely normal, but making changes in currently manufactured products is expensive. Supporting clients in solving these problems is another source of additional costs.
Spyderco also invests in niche products, sometimes with no experience at all (like straight razors), exotic steels (somebody has to develop heat treatment, test it, etc.) in proprietary steels (SPY27 is a novelty, but pure performance is similar to existing ones). All of it needs people and time, pure overheads.
On the other hand, the knives are manufactured in short runs (for example niche products like Janisong or Pochi) when unit costs are higher, especially if uncommon steel is purchased in low volume. Spyderco cooperates with reputable manufacturers, they have their own costs and margins. Quality is top priority, they are not competing against each other, it is not an environment for optimization and lowering an unit cost.
So, general costs goes up, unit costs goes up and they are not covered by increased production volume. Margins have to be higher, prices are rising, which also decrease future sales and volume. And prices will rise every year with such strategy. But you (unfortunately not me anymore) want Spyderco to make and sell innovative, weird, gimmicky knives, and release 60 different versions of knives every year made of 60 different steels. And somebody has you pay for that.

[Matus]

Very ... entertaining ... thread. Let me just say, if you have a company and the price of your products is guided in the first place by production cost and inflation, then you are doing a poor job as a manager. I don't expect that to be the case with Spyderco though. Looking at it from the customer side - it is naive to expect the cost of the final product to reflect just the inflation. It is quite simple - you either see the value of the product being offered worth the price - then you buy, or you don't see the value and then you don't buy (and get something else elsewhere). If Spyderco (for whatever reason) has a price increase and their products sell, then, well, they are doing fine.

[ladybug93]

This begs the question, does Spyderco begin to abandon Japanese production to make the knives affordable for the average buyer? Move to Taiwan? To China? If the quality was the same level, would you buy a vg-10 Delica made in China if it meant a $10 savings? How about $15 or $25 savings?

What would the price be if those same models came to Golden, maybe used BD1N? Does Golden have the capacity?

In recent years I have bought almost every variant of the Dragonfly 2, but the K390 I bought used as it was what I considered "too expensive" to buy new. This is the only model that I collect in this fashion, and I buy them to use. It was when I saw the K390 price tag that I started thinking, maybe I will have to start skipping variants, or looking for used models that offer more value. The Dragonfly is a lot of knife in a small package, but as it creeps each year toward $100 I am drawing the line.

I am not opposed to Chinese made knives if the quality is there, and I know it can be. I'd rather they were made in Japan or the US, but I have to draw a line somewhere on what I am comfortable paying.

I won’t purchase a Chinese produced Spyderco, ever. For now Taiwan is OK.

I’m in agreement with you regarding the Dragonfly. I’ve been a dedicated user for a decade, but $70+ for a VG-10 offering is close to my limit.

I WOULD buy (and spend considerably more) for a DF2 with a USA made steel in normal production FRN colors- no questions asked - I’d buy a couple for spares too. I just paid $95 for an CTS XHP FRN chaparral made in Taiwan. Zero qualms about that purchase.

you're missing out. my resilience is one of my favorite spydercos even though i have quite a few more expensive models. it's certainly better than some other knives by other manufacturers that cost more and have the same steel. i also bought it at the same time as a dragonfly salt, which at the time, cost about the same amount as the resilience. that is ridiculous. and now that df2 salt is quite a bit more expensive than the resilience. anyway, the chinese made spydercos are still high quality and great value. i understand if your motivation is political, but i still think you're missing out.

[standy99]

One thing I will bring up is the basis of the opinion here is the price increase through the eyes of a collector or an amassing of luxury goods person.

The other 80% of the knife buying public that has only 1 knife for the next five years would not have the same issue of a $5-10 increase on a knife they didn’t know the price of last year or 5 minutes before they walked or logged into the shop. (Just like a new member here that is amazed that some of us here payed under $50 for a Delica 1)

Just remember when you started in buying knives. I bet you just jumped on the Spyderco train and saw the quality and worth of what you were buying.

For me I understand I will see this thread next year like I did last year.

I have seen everything go up over the years and knives is not the only thing.

Lastly I will add if this was a share held company like several sports brands everything would not be made in the USA and prices would only be about profit and quality and ingenuity would not be thought of like it is here.

[araneae]

One thing I will bring up is the basis of the opinion here is the price increase through the eyes of a collector or an amassing of luxury goods person.

The other 80% of the knife buying public that has only 1 knife for the next five years would not have the same issue of a $5-10 increase on a knife they didn’t know the price of last year or 5 minutes before they walked or logged into the shop. (Just like a new member here that is amazed that some of us here payed under $50 for a Delica 1)

Just remember when you started in buying knives. I bet you just jumped on the Spyderco train and saw the quality and worth of what you were buying.

I believe 2 of my posts addressed the fact that when I first got into spyderco I was a poor college kid. I had to save to buy my first spydercos, a Q and a ladybug. They cost more than much bigger Gerber knives, which was what I thought was a good knife back then. I saved, I bought and I learned that Spyderco was different and better. I didn't jump on the train, I saved and waited probably months before I bought my first and second Spyderco.

The problem I'm concerned with, is the cost of entry is going up (maybe prohibitively) for new knife buyers and casual users. Exactly that person who buys 1 good knife every 5 years could be at risk of going elsewhere or never coming to spyderco in the first place. They might not know the knife was $5 less last year, they'll only know it seems expensive.

Not everyone has the cash to keep up with these prices and lots of people won't see the value of an $85 Delica, one of the original workhorses of the lineup. That likely means fewer new knife buyers. I have more expendable income than I have at any point in my life and I'm drawing some lines on value, I don't think I'm alone.

[standy99]

One thing I will bring up is the basis of the opinion here is the price increase through the eyes of a collector or an amassing of luxury goods person.

The other 80% of the knife buying public that has only 1 knife for the next five years would not have the same issue of a $5-10 increase on a knife they didn’t know the price of last year or 5 minutes before they walked or logged into the shop. (Just like a new member here that is amazed that some of us here payed under $50 for a Delica 1)

Just remember when you started in buying knives. I bet you just jumped on the Spyderco train and saw the quality and worth of what you were buying.

I believe 2 of my posts addressed the fact that when I first got into spyderco I was a poor college kid. I had to save to buy my first spydercos, a Q and a ladybug. They cost more than much bigger Gerber knives, which was what I thought was a good knife back then. I saved, I bought and I learned that Spyderco was different and better. I didn't jump on the train, I saved and waited probably months before I bought my first and second Spyderco.

The problem I'm concerned with, is the cost of entry is going up (maybe prohibitively) for new knife buyers and casual users. Exactly that person who buys 1 good knife every 5 years could be at risk of going elsewhere or never coming to spyderco in the first place. They might not know the knife was $5 less last year, they'll only know it seems expensive.

Not everyone has the cash to keep up with these prices and lots of people won't see the value of an $85 Delica, one of the original workhorses of the lineup. That likely means fewer new knife buyers. I have more expendable income than I have at any point in my life and I'm drawing some lines on value, I don't think I'm alone.

I still see the value in a Delica at $100 so I have more than a few years left.

Spyderco makes knives for under $50 so the argument of pricing future buyers out of Spyderco is redundant.

Believe it or not any knife over 50 is a luxury good.
When it comes to sprints which show traits of Veblen goods or even Giffen goods.

(To be a true Giffen good, the good's price must be the only thing that changes to produce a change in quantity demanded. A Giffen good should not be confused with products bought as status symbols or for conspicuous consumption (Veblen goods), although there may be some overlap as consumers are more likely to engage in conspicuous consumption as a way to engage in "aspirational spending" as a way to increase their social status.)

If you want a knife Spyderco has one at a price you want to pay. But to have the knife you want at the price you want to pay is not something that always happens. Taste is something that has to be paid for.

Plenty of people play in a pool a **** of a lot cheaper than Spyderco

But I do see the thread as a valid point for all people that have posted as everyone has a opinion and last thing I want to do is change anyone’s opinion and I respect everyone’s opinion, just giving my opinion.

[Blnd]

This begs the question, does Spyderco begin to abandon Japanese production to make the knives affordable for the average buyer? Move to Taiwan? To China? If the quality was the same level, would you buy a vg-10 Delica made in China if it meant a $10 savings? How about $15 or $25 savings?

What would the price be if those same models came to Golden, maybe used BD1N? Does Golden have the capacity?

In recent years I have bought almost every variant of the Dragonfly 2, but the K390 I bought used as it was what I considered "too expensive" to buy new. This is the only model that I collect in this fashion, and I buy them to use. It was when I saw the K390 price tag that I started thinking, maybe I will have to start skipping variants, or looking for used models that offer more value. The Dragonfly is a lot of knife in a small package, but as it creeps each year toward $100 I am drawing the line.

I am not opposed to Chinese made knives if the quality is there, and I know it can be. I'd rather they were made in Japan or the US, but I have to draw a line somewhere on what I am comfortable paying.

I won’t purchase a Chinese produced Spyderco, ever. For now Taiwan is OK.

I’m in agreement with you regarding the Dragonfly. I’ve been a dedicated user for a decade, but $70+ for a VG-10 offering is close to my limit.

I WOULD buy (and spend considerably more) for a DF2 with a USA made steel in normal production FRN colors- no questions asked - I’d buy a couple for spares too. I just paid $95 for an CTS XHP FRN chaparral made in Taiwan. Zero qualms about that purchase.

you're missing out. my resilience is one of my favorite spydercos even though i have quite a few more expensive models. it's certainly better than some other knives by other manufacturers that cost more and have the same steel. i also bought it at the same time as a dragonfly salt, which at the time, cost about the same amount as the resilience. that is ridiculous. and now that df2 salt is quite a bit more expensive than the resilience. anyway, the chinese made spydercos are still high quality and great value. i understand if your motivation is political, but i still think you're missing out.

Hardly. Spyderco makes plenty of knives in places that aren’t China. Zero reason for me to consider a Spyderco product made there, particularly when products coming out of the Taichung plant are exemplary. My chaparral is a great example of a pretty cool amalgamation of a carpenter steel (they are even local to me!) and quality Taiwanese Production and QA/QC.

[Menipo]

I won’t purchase a Chinese produced Spyderco, ever. For now Taiwan is OK.

I’m in agreement with you regarding the Dragonfly. I’ve been a dedicated user for a decade, but $70+ for a VG-10 offering is close to my limit.

I WOULD buy (and spend considerably more) for a DF2 with a USA made steel in normal production FRN colors- no questions asked - I’d buy a couple for spares too. I just paid $95 for an CTS XHP FRN chaparral made in Taiwan. Zero qualms about that purchase.

you're missing out. my resilience is one of my favorite spydercos even though i have quite a few more expensive models. it's certainly better than some other knives by other manufacturers that cost more and have the same steel. i also bought it at the same time as a dragonfly salt, which at the time, cost about the same amount as the resilience. that is ridiculous. and now that df2 salt is quite a bit more expensive than the resilience. anyway, the chinese made spydercos are still high quality and great value. i understand if your motivation is political, but i still think you're missing out.

Experience proves that political motivations tend to cease to be insurmountable vetoes when reality, which is very stubborn, prevails. The current "I will never buy Chinese products" that proclaim many Westerners, reminds me a lot of the time when Japanese cars entered the American market. Many people said they would never trade their precious Detroit-made machine for one of those "yellow pieces of scrap". The third time the Detroit wonder was left in the ditch and a Toyota tow truck had to come to its rescue, things began to look differently. Just look at American roads today to see how long those prejudices lasted ...

A few weeks ago I was given a CIVIVI Pintail (2.98" blade of S35VN and brown micarta handles). Same price of a Delica 4. TBH, a little bit cheaper (0.50 $ in the US (KC) and 10 Euro (14 $) in Europe). The fit & finish is perfect and it shaves.
I am a Spyderco fanboy and (today) I would not hesitate. But someone who did not have a predisposition towards any brand would not hesitate either (same size and perfect fit & finish in both cases but VG-10 versus S35VN and FRN versus micarta ...)

In general, I would not be disrespectful to anyone because everyone has had their moments of glory throughout history and everyone has ended up declining. In particular, I wouldn't be particularly concessive to the guys who invented gunpowder, paper, the compass, rechargeable weapons (the 10-shot repeater crossbow) and a few other things ...

[araneae]

I still see the value in a Delica at $100 so I have more than a few years left.

Spyderco makes knives for under $50 so the argument of pricing future buyers out of Spyderco is redundant.

Believe it or not any knife over 50 is a luxury good.
When it comes to sprints which show traits of Veblen goods or even Giffen goods.

(To be a true Giffen good, the good's price must be the only thing that changes to produce a change in quantity demanded. A Giffen good should not be confused with products bought as status symbols or for conspicuous consumption (Veblen goods), although there may be some overlap as consumers are more likely to engage in conspicuous consumption as a way to engage in "aspirational spending" as a way to increase their social status.)

If you want a knife Spyderco has one at a price you want to pay. But to have the knife you want at the price you want to pay is not something that always happens. Taste is something that has to be paid for.

Plenty of people play in a pool a **** of a lot cheaper than Spyderco

But I do see the thread as a valid point for all people that have posted as everyone has a opinion and last thing I want to do is change anyone’s opinion and I respect everyone’s opinion, just giving my opinion.

I guess you are arguing against a point I am not trying to make. I am more concerned with the value represented by a knife like the Delica/Endura, which is hands down one of their best sellers and in most knife people's opinions is one of the best knives the average knife user could need. This knife was probably the gateway for a lot of Spyderco customers for the past 2 decades. We have seen the costs growing significantly in under 5 years. My concern is that more consumers will see less perceived value in those workhorse standards as prices continue to escalate. At current rates of increase, we are looking at the $100 Delica by 2024. Yeah, their are cheaper options in the lineup, but what happens when the knife buying masses (not afi's) decide that your long time best selling, working person's knives aren't a good value? Does Spyderco sell enough Meadowlarks or Persistence models to subsidize riskier, fanciful models like the Pochi or Nirvana? I'm going to guess no. And the sub $50 (or even sub $100) market as I mentioned previously is getting very, competitive and crowded. My bet is Spyderco needs to remain very competitive in the Delica/Endura/Salt market to be healthy. Maybe I'm completely off base, maybe not.

[Lucabrasi]

I have to admit, I have only recently been introduced to how good some of these knives coming from China are for the price. They are impressive, both for budget (under 80) and premium (200+).

I have way more Spyderco than anything else, and intend to continue that way. But there is no denying the value and quality that is being offered by Chinese competition. You can argue politics or principles and I’m open to that. But the quality is there.

[Menipo]

I guess you are arguing against a point I am not trying to make. I am more concerned with the value represented by a knife like the Delica/Endura, which is hands down one of their best sellers and in most knife people's opinions is one of the best knives the average knife user could need. This knife was probably the gateway for a lot of Spyderco customers for the past 2 decades. We have seen the costs growing significantly in under 5 years. My concern is that more consumers will see less perceived value in those workhorse standards as prices continue to escalate. At current rates of increase, we are looking at the $100 Delica by 2024. Yeah, their are cheaper options in the lineup, but what happens when the knife buying masses (not afi's) decide that your long time best selling, working person's knives aren't a good value? Does Spyderco sell enough Meadowlarks or Persistence models to subsidize riskier, fanciful models like the Pochi or Nirvana? I'm going to guess no. And the sub $50 (or even sub $100) market as I mentioned previously is getting very, competitive and crowded. My bet is Spyderco needs to remain very competitive in the Delica/Endura/Salt market to be healthy. Maybe I'm completely off base, maybe not.

Unless each variant of each model had its own P&L account, which would surprise me, I suspect, but I may be wrong, that the prices of workhorses include a part of subsidy for certain fancy models if their actual cost plus the profit margin could be difficult to pass on to the customer.

[nerdlock]

I really love this forum...9 pages of these and we have managed to be civil enough through our objective disagreements on this issue. On social media (Facebook, Twitter, etc.) people would probably be cussing and having at each other's (virtual) throats by the 5th reply.

I'll try to gather my thoughts as to what possible suggestions I can share to the spirit of this thread.

We may not see each other eye to eye in this contentious issue, but thanks to Sal, Kristy, and everyone for allowing discourse to continue and not locking this topic.

[sal]

I really appreciate all of your meaningful and intelligent opinions and we always take them seriously.

There is some additional information I'd like to share. Comparison between Japan and China is not apples and apples.

When Japan began its rise economically, the Yen was 350 to the dollar ( 3.5 / 1 ). It was exceptional value for the cost, in knives as well as automobiles. That's when we began working with our Japanese maker. We were selling Endura's and Delica's at shows for $30 and $25 ( 1981). As the economy grew, the Yen got stronger and as a member of the Global economy, Japan was trying to be a fair member. The Yen got stronger and stronger and now it is, as it should be, pretty equal to the US dollar.

As China began its rise economically, the Yuan was very low and the quality was poor. Factory workers worked in poor conditions and the Government subsidized manufacturing. Now China is a modern country. They build skyscrapers, they've gone into space and they have a large army and weapons of mass destruction, but the Yuan is still 6 / 1 to the dollar. That' why it is such a "good value". The Chinese Government is reluctant to adjust their money to the Global market and they are taking over the world (intentionally) in manufacturing. They have brought the world to its knees with Covid, and they also make all of our drugs, because it's cheaper and our company leaders often put profit above all else.

I don't want to get political, but some have expressed some opinion on this and I wanted to bring everyone up to date on Geo-Politics. Just some thoughts to share.

sal

[James Y]

I really appreciate all of your meaningful and intelligent opinions and we always take them seriously.

There is some additional information I'd like to share. Comparison between Japan and China is not apples and apples.

When Japan began its rise economically, the Yen was 350 to the dollar ( 3.5 / 1 ). It was exceptional value for the cost, in knives as well as automobiles. That's when we began working with our Japanese maker. We were selling Endura's and Delica's at shows for $30 and $25 ( 1981). As the economy grew, the Yen got stronger and as a member of the Global economy, Japan was trying to be a fair member. The Yen got stronger and stronger and now it is, as it should be, pretty equal to the US dollar.

As China began its rise economically, the Yuan was very low and the quality was poor. Factory workers worked in poor conditions and the Government subsidized manufacturing. Now China is a modern country. They build skyscrapers, they've gone into space and they have a large army and weapons of mass destruction, but the Yuan is still 6 / 1 to the dollar. That' why it is such a "good value". The Chinese Government is reluctant to adjust their money to the Global market and they are taking over the world (intentionally) in manufacturing. They have brought the world to its knees with Covid, and they also make all of our drugs, because it's cheaper and our company leaders often put profit above all else.

I don't want to get political, but some have expressed some opinion on this and I wanted to bring everyone up to date on Geo-Politics. Just some thoughts to share.

sal

Thanks, Sal.

It seems easy for many to equate the economic rise of Japan and China as the same or similar, because both are East Asian countries (easy for some to lump together), but they are VERY different.

Taiwan and Mainland China are also very different.

Jim