S30V Steel – History and Properties

[Larrin]

New article on S30V, including information on its development. I was able to interview the lead development metallurgist, Dick Barber, who shared a lot of interesting information. I also compared its properties to other common knife steels and talked about the steel’s impact on the knife industry. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/04/13/ ... roperties/

[hookandlateral]

Great article, although I must show my noobness in that I've never heard of BG42.

[zuludelta]

Excellent article! Thanks for the new content, I love the "behind the scenes" details. I know a lot of people are bored with S30V now, but for me, S30V is much, much more than sufficient for my work needs (and I probably use a folding knife more than 99.9% of the general population due to the nature of my job). We have it so good now, steel-wise. I remember when 440C was considered a premium production folder blade steel.

[JMM]

Awesome article Larrin! Very informative & interesting. Thank you for yet another superb read!

[GarageBoy]

Interesting footnote about 440v having poor toughness - some members here are dying to see it back in serrated form

[Larrin]

Interesting footnote about 440v having poor toughness - some members here are dying to see it back in serrated form

I know that the reintroduced version has had some small changes from the original and the improvements in production over the past 20 years. I would be interested to see where the toughness is.

[zuludelta]

One thing I noticed—and I don't know if this was a widespread observation or if it's just anecdotal evidence unique to my own experience—was that it seemed like it took a few years before the major knife companies could consistently nail down the heat treat for S30V for it to perform up to the potential implied by its chemistry. I remember trying some of the earliest production S30V folders to be introduced into retail & performance was somewhat scattershot. Some seemed quite chippy (which I think led a lot of people to form inaccurate opinions about the steel's relative toughness) while other specimens did not seem to offer significant improvements on wear resistance compared to 154CM or VG-10.

[Larrin]

One thing I noticed—and I don't know if this was a widespread observation or if it's just anecdotal evidence unique to my own experience—was that it seemed like it took a few years before the major knife companies could consistently nail down the heat treat for S30V for it to perform up to the potential implied by its chemistry. I remember trying some of the earliest production S30V folders to be introduced into retail & performance was somewhat scattershot. Some seemed quite chippy (which I think led a lot of people to form inaccurate opinions about the steel's relative toughness) while other specimens did not seem to offer significant improvements on wear resistance compared to 154CM or VG-10.

I don't know what led to reports of chipping with early production knives. It could be heat treatment, processing, sharpening, etc. It could be a lot of things, and heat treatment is only one. I know some early knives were relatively low in hardness which could potentially explain small improvements in edge retention. Anecdotal reports of performance on knife forums are always questionable, however.

[kennethsime]

Thanks Larrin! Great article, as always.

Question: If S30V is the benchmark of Stainless Steel for pocket knives, what is the benchmark of Carbon/Tool Steel? D2? M4?

[Cycletroll]

Great article with some good history. Nice to see how earlier steels and the C/Ch/V/Mo interplay was worked out. Really shows how different recipes offer different trade offs.
FWIW, I've always found S30V to be a great steel (especially if you actually use and sharpen it a bit to get down to unmolested steel

[RamZar]

Back in 2005 when I got serious about knives they were all good old school and reliable stainless steels like 154CM, ATS-34, VG-10 and N690. Then came CPM-S30V "super steel" which was one of the first widely-available powdered stainless steels and my first knife with it was/is the Spyderco Military from September 2005 which I still have.

The past 8 years I’ve moved towards S35VN/Elmax on the lower end and M390/20CV/204P on the high end of stainless steels.

[GarageBoy]

What property is it that gives s30v it's poor reputation for front end sharpness and preferring coarse edges? It's a very fine grained steel

Some alluded to chipping due to "overstressing/fatigue" from sharpening with in adequate abrasives

[Larrin]

Thanks Larrin! Great article, as always.

Question: If S30V is the benchmark of Stainless Steel for pocket knives, what is the benchmark of Carbon/Tool Steel? D2? M4?

That’s a good question. S30V is a benchmark in that it is a very common steel in “high end” production knives, and its properties are pretty good to go with it. I don’t know if there is a tool steel that is nearly as common in production folders as well being known for being a performance option. If we were talking slipjoints then 1095 and variants like CroVan would be the most common by far but it is known for being “traditional” or easy to sharpen not high performance.

D2 is not a bad choice and it has had somewhat of a resurgence lately in budget knives and to some people at least they see it as offering good performance, at least for the price. CPM-M4 might be the most commonly used powder metallurgy non-stainless and has also had a good reputation for performance. It’s also been used for several years at this point. It’s not nearly as common as S30V is, but maybe no non-stainless would be. So I could see a very good argument being made for CPM-M4. 3V also has a good reputation and has been used by multiple manufacturers.

In terms of a pure performance benchmark I really like 4V, Vanadis 4 Extra, and CPM CruWear. Those are in a similar category in terms of toughness and edge retention, and I think they strike a very good balance. The toughness is much higher than stainless steels with a similar level of edge retention, and the microstructure is much finer as well.

[Larrin]

What property is it that gives s30v it's poor reputation for front end sharpness and preferring coarse edges? It's a very fine grained steel

Some alluded to chipping due to "overstressing/fatigue" from sharpening with in adequate abrasives

Could be the common use of aluminum oxide abrasives. S30V has more vanadium carbide than M390 and Elmax.

[Airlsee]

Larrin, that was a really great, informative write up! The work you give to the knife community is seriously unmatched, thank you!

[Halfneck]

Pretty cool article, especially as I recall all the buzz about S30V when it came out.

Got to admit I'm one of those that was burned by a bad S30V knife. Lots of chipping under use. Not major chips, but enough you could feel them with your thumbnail. I'd sharpen them out when I got back in from the field, but then it would do it again. Pretty much relize it was probably a bad heat treat, but I'm still hesitant about S30V to this day.

[Naperville]

In terms of a pure performance benchmark I really like 4V, Vanadis 4 Extra, and CPM CruWear.

Did you buy a Spyderco Province that is in 4V? I have one, and although I have not gone out and used/abused it am quite fond of it.

[Naperville]

I like your articles Larrin. Have you ever considered having guest writers? Might be worth a try to get more eyeballs on your site.

[Sharp Guy]

....but I'm still hesitant about S30V to this day.

There's lots of great steel choices available today but I'd recommend giving some more recent Spyderco S30V a try. I have several knives with it from recent years and I haven't had any issues. They've all performed admirably. I think my oldest is from 2010 and even that seems to be fine. I've only touched up the factory edge on that one. I have several others that I've reprofiled to 30° inclusive and they've held up great

[Doc Dan]

Did anyone notice where the Catra placed S30v? You know, that steel that won’t hold a good edge and is chippy? :rolleyes:
There is nothing at all wrong with S30V.

What I want to see is the Catra comparison between S39v, S45VN, and the new Spyderco steel SPY-27.