Rock Jumper Thread

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ugaarguy
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Rock Jumper Thread

Postby ugaarguy » Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:31 pm

Sal has recently mentioned this upcoming model in a couple of threads. I asked him for more detail, and he wrote this:
sal wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:09 pm
Hi Ugaarguy,

It is a Spyderco. It was originally designed to serve a few functions. It's sized for the: climber / rock jumper/ outdoor folding knife. Not too big, not too small. I used a Warncliffe blade shape so that the tip has as much force in cutting rope as the heel of the blade. Cutting rope quickly can be an issue where rope is used, especially strong rope like in climbing. This is a concept that Mike Janich has popularized in the past 10 years or so. While Mike's approach is for Martial Blade Craft, the concept also works on Sheepsfoot styles like Rescue knives which keep the rope from "rolling" off of a curved blade.

The liner is highly skeletonized to keep weight down which is important in any type of climbing but I wanted to include a liner for rigidity if used hard.

I used a lock-back to maximize self close. In climbing and a very quick descent could conceivable cause an inertia opening and I didn't want to take that chance and I think that, at this time., lock-backs offer the most secure self cloe.

I went straight to FRN as making a G-10 run in Seki gets very expensive and the high cost hurts sales which hinders my research on a new design concept.

The design brings the handle right to the cutting edge which is important on quick emergency cutting of rope. Kicks, sharpening choils and finger choils can snag on a rope and time is lost if it is an emergency cut. This is an experiment with this design as it is difficult to do with a lock-back.

Hope that answers your questions.

sal

ugaarguy
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby ugaarguy » Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:43 pm

Sal, that answers my questions, and creates some others. You mention using liners for rigidity. My contrasting experience with liners in outdoor knives has been problems with corrosion, and the clip mounting screw threads in the liners stripping easily. The liner-less construction of the Salt series and most of the Native 5 family has solved those issues for me.

So, my next question, which might be more of an alternate construction idea, is: Could the liners be encapsulated within the FRN scales to prevent corrosion and moisture / debris trapping? Going even further, could metal rods or a metal grid be encapsulated in the FRN scales, a la rebar in concrete?

Other than the liners, everything else you've written about the Rock Jumper sound like things I'd really like. This sounds like a knife I'm going to want, despite the liners.

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VooDooChild
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby VooDooChild » Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:47 pm

Im very curious which factory it will be coming from.
Backlock brigade assemble.
sal wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:14 pm
... "The edge is a ghost"...

The Meat man
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby The Meat man » Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:17 pm

VooDooChild wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:47 pm
Im very curious which factory it will be coming from.
Backlock brigade assemble.
Seki City:
sal wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:33 am

We are currently tooling up for three FRN models in Seki. FRN Police 4, Endela and Rock Jumper. I have only seen the Endela handle made from tooling.

sal

I'm really curious about this one. Glad it will have liners - I think that is a good idea.
- Connor

"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

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Evil D
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby Evil D » Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:20 pm

I really hope this turns out to be the back lock Caribbean we talked about in another thread. I'm super excited. Please have FFG and a SE version.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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VooDooChild
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby VooDooChild » Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:22 pm

Oh Im definitely in then. I was just thinking the other day, it would be nice to have some more no-choil options.
sal wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 8:14 pm
... "The edge is a ghost"...

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Wartstein
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby Wartstein » Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:35 pm

ugaarguy wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:43 pm
.....
So, my next question, which might be more of an alternate construction idea, is: Could the liners be encapsulated within the FRN scales to prevent corrosion and moisture / debris trapping? Going even further, could metal rods or a metal grid be encapsulated in the FRN scales, a la rebar in concrete?

.....

I like conventional liners and also linerless knives, but I have to say that proposals of yours are actually very interesting ideas just to muse about.
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

cycleguy
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby cycleguy » Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:51 pm

Wartstein wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:35 pm
ugaarguy wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:43 pm
.....
So, my next question, which might be more of an alternate construction idea, is: Could the liners be encapsulated within the FRN scales to prevent corrosion and moisture / debris trapping? Going even further, could metal rods or a metal grid be encapsulated in the FRN scales, a la rebar in concrete?

.....

I like conventional liners and also linerless knives, but I have to say that proposals of yours are actually very interesting ideas just to muse about.
I think so too..

Titanium ... metal rods textured for bonding with the frn, or the WWF (welded wire fabric) concept also used in concrete also of titanium to appropriate scale, or something like metal lath to appropriate scale to help with both compression and tensile forces.

CG
So many knives - so little funds!!!

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RustyIron
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby RustyIron » Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:23 pm

Oh, my.

Sal, we can hang out, have drinks, take the girls out to dinner, but let's just agree to never climb together. Simon Yates cut a rope once. Justified or not, the dude nearly killed his friend and became a pariah. The emotional scars were deep and long lasting. Today, we may joke about climbing with a "rope knife," but really, making such a comment is dark and inappropriate in polite company.

I'm curious to see the new knife, but the notion of a rope-cutting knife for climbers does not create cheery imagery in my mind. Maybe the Spyderco Marketing Team can come up with uses for the new knife that do not have such gruesome implications.

Since hardly anyone will know what I'm talking about, just pick up a copy of Touching the Void by Joe Simpson. You don't have to be a climber to appreciate it. Outdoors types who find themselves in grueling or hazardous situations from time to time will be able to relate. And the book isn't too long, so you can finish it in a couple days.

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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby The Meat man » Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:47 pm

^Eh? :confused:

Joking aside, this is sounding like a really interesting knife. I like the idea of the edge coming all the way back to the handle.

Can we assume that the steel will be H-1 (like the Rock and Jumpmaster) or will it be something else? PE or Serrated?
- Connor

"What is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

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sal
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby sal » Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:16 pm

Hi Ugaarguy,

The questions of liners or no liners has been around for a long time. The original Endura nd Delica were linerless with integral clips introduced 1n 1980.. Since then we've made advancements in both liners and linerless and I imagine this will continue for a while. Some customers prefer liners and some do not.

Hi Rusty Iron,

Thanx for the input, but not all rope cutting ends up a disaster and there many other applications that can be sorted by this style design.

Hi Conner,

First introduction will be VG-10.

sal

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Jazz
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby Jazz » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:15 pm

How long is the blade, Sal? 3”, 3.5”?
- best wishes, Jazz.

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Haunted House
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby Haunted House » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:27 pm

You had me at Wharncliffe :D
I love the sound of this knife! Personally, I really like that it will have skeletonized liners.

Perhaps I missed it, but will it be serrated? When I think of cutting rope, serrated is what comes to mind.
Team Wharncliffe

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sal
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby sal » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:32 pm

Hi Jazz,

I'm expecting a production sample n a couple of days. I'll get an exact measurement.

Hi Haunted House

We'll have a serrated version.

sal

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Jazz
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby Jazz » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:09 pm

Thanks, Sal. It sounds cool. PE and SE.
- best wishes, Jazz.

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Sonorum
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby Sonorum » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:41 pm

Is there any pictures or sketches available of this knife?
/ David

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Wartstein
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby Wartstein » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:08 am

Ugaarguy, thanks for posting this Sal quote (see below)! I would have missed it otherwise

Really, for me the Rock Jumper sounds like a dream come true in most details, and Sal even reasons these details like I would (to be clear: Of course I am not comparing myself by ANY means with Sal Glesser when it comes to knowledge and experience concerning folders!)

- Lock back: For me the best and most versatile lock by far, and, as Sal says, with the "most secure self close"

- FRN without a " G 10 test model" beforehand? PERFECT! From a practical point of view nothing beats FRN imho, I love it!

- A LOCKBACK with an edge all the way to the handle? Man, I think I started at least three threads advocating for exactly that! SO happy that it will happen in the Rock Jumper! Not only, but also because as Sal says: "Kicks, sharpening choils and finger choils can snag on a rope and time is lost if it is an emergency cut"

- Wharncliff: Just fine for such a knife

- Sal: "It's sized for the: climber / rock jumper/ outdoor folding knife. Not too big, not too small.": Perfect. I am a climber and use my knives a lot in the outdoors generally. "Not too big, not too small" combined with an edge all the way to the handle almost certainly means the Rock Jumper will have a usable cutting edge of at least 3 ", which is the absolute minimum for me when it comes to a general EDC folder...

- And it will come in a serrated version too?! Great! Hope it will have an ffg blade, though for rope cutting hollow (sabre) grind is great too.

- Can´t wait... :)
ugaarguy wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:31 pm
Sal has recently mentioned this upcoming model in a couple of threads. I asked him for more detail, and he wrote this:
sal wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:09 pm
Hi Ugaarguy,

It is a Spyderco. It was originally designed to serve a few functions. It's sized for the: climber / rock jumper/ outdoor folding knife. Not too big, not too small. I used a Warncliffe blade shape so that the tip has as much force in cutting rope as the heel of the blade. Cutting rope quickly can be an issue where rope is used, especially strong rope like in climbing. This is a concept that Mike Janich has popularized in the past 10 years or so. While Mike's approach is for Martial Blade Craft, the concept also works on Sheepsfoot styles like Rescue knives which keep the rope from "rolling" off of a curved blade.

The liner is highly skeletonized to keep weight down which is important in any type of climbing but I wanted to include a liner for rigidity if used hard.

I used a lock-back to maximize self close. In climbing and a very quick descent could conceivable cause an inertia opening and I didn't want to take that chance and I think that, at this time., lock-backs offer the most secure self cloe.

I went straight to FRN as making a G-10 run in Seki gets very expensive and the high cost hurts sales which hinders my research on a new design concept.

The design brings the handle right to the cutting edge which is important on quick emergency cutting of rope. Kicks, sharpening choils and finger choils can snag on a rope and time is lost if it is an emergency cut. This is an experiment with this design as it is difficult to do with a lock-back.

Hope that answers your questions.

sal
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

jacala
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby jacala » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:33 am

Do we have any drawings or pickies heh heh ? :-)

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Wartstein
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby Wartstein » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:43 am

jacala wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:33 am
Do we have any drawings or pickies heh heh ? :-)

We don´t... but we badly want to... :rolleyes: :D
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Pancake
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Re: Rock Jumper Thread

Postby Pancake » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:28 am

I am not sure about wharncliffe blade.....I have to wait for pics.
In the pocket: Chaparral FRN, Native Chief, Police 4 K390, Pacific Salt SE, Manix 2 G10 REX45
On belt: Waterway


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