LC200N / Caribbean SE torture test gauntlet of death

[vivi]

One nice thing about running tests like this is it gives you a better idea of what your tool is capable of. Gives you more confidence when doing rougher work. I made a video where I cut a lot of similar things with that CPMD2 Military I reprofiled stupid thin. Steel is pretty strong stuff!

Really nice test. Got me excited to get a serrated native 5 salt to go with my plain edge one. I recall an online review where the atlantic salt cut a car tire in half steel belts and all. Id bet the carribean could do it as well.

Those are out in SE now? Hmmm, might push me over the edge. I have my waterway for testing PE LC200N, but hadn't seen any SE LC models that caught my eye. While it's small, Natives work wel for me otherwise.

[VooDooChild]

Looking at the pictures of the test for the atlantic salt, it does seem as though the sidewall was cut out similar to what you did. Then the tread part of the tire was cut in half. So while the knife made it through the steel belts I do not believe any attempt was made to cut through the bead. So I was slightly incorrect in saying it cut the entire tire in half. Still very impressive though. That review is why my atlantaic salt is almost always my backup emergency knife. Im loving taking my caribbean on the boat as well.
And yes Vivi, unless I have been seeing things, the serrated edge native 5 salt exist.

[The Meat man]

This is great stuff Evil D!

Very impressive how that edge took all that hard use and still remained workably sharp. I can't help wondering how H-1 would have compared...

How about some reckless wood carving? Something hard and seasoned. I don't suppose y'all have Osage Orange wood in your area do you?

[vivi]

This is great stuff Evil D!

Very impressive how that edge took all that hard use and still remained workably sharp. I can't help wondering how H-1 would have compared...

How about some reckless wood carving? Something hard and seasoned. I don't suppose y'all have Osage Orange wood in your area do you?

I've done all of this with an Aqua Salt PE, and most of it with a SE Pacific. No issues. Open to videos of H1 abusive testing as long as it isn't anything too crazy. I'll push them a bit, but not to the point they break.

[The Meat man]

This is great stuff Evil D!

Very impressive how that edge took all that hard use and still remained workably sharp. I can't help wondering how H-1 would have compared...

How about some reckless wood carving? Something hard and seasoned. I don't suppose y'all have Osage Orange wood in your area do you?

I've done all of this with an Aqua Salt PE, and most of it with a SE Pacific. No issues. Open to videos of H1 abusive testing as long as it isn't anything too crazy. I'll push them a bit, but not to the point they break.

Sure. I'm just curious if H-1 would have the same edge strength/stability. From my experiences, while it may be harder in SE than PE, it's still a softer steel.

But I digress from the topic of the thread.

[ladybug93]

thanks for the testing and post. those are some crazy results. do you think pe would have similar results, or is this kind of retention and toughness a product of the smaller and more structurally sound edges on se knife.

[Wartstein]

First off, batonning.....

David, thanks for all the testing and the report! VERY interesting!

For me the batoning-part was the most interesting, for I asked about that exact topic (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85037)

So, I guess if serrated LC200N holds up perfectly to even CROSS batonning (I guess that´s what you call it in English?) through a rather thick branch,
H1 should have no problems in batoning the "regular" way, so splitting some wood in the direction of the grain, right?
Even if the hollow ground Pac Salt blade might be a bit thinner and less "solid" right behind the edge than the true ffg of the Caribbean...

[Evil D]

This is great stuff Evil D!

Very impressive how that edge took all that hard use and still remained workably sharp. I can't help wondering how H-1 would have compared...

How about some reckless wood carving? Something hard and seasoned. I don't suppose y'all have Osage Orange wood in your area do you?

I started out with this log I cut in the spring and planned to baton through it but I quickly realized it was far too hard. I probably could split it in half down the middle but going across the grain felt like I was trying to cut through a lead pipe.

[Evil D]

First off, batonning.....

David, thanks for all the testing and the report! VERY interesting!

For me the batoning-part was the most interesting, for I asked about that exact topic (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85037)

So, I guess if serrated LC200N holds up perfectly to even CROSS batonning (I guess that´s what you call it in English?) through a rather thick branch,
H1 should have no problems in batoning the "regular" way, so splitting some wood in the direction of the grain, right?
Even if the hollow ground Pac Salt blade might be a bit thinner and less "solid" right behind the edge than the true ffg of the Caribbean...

I assume H1 will do as good or better, I don't see any reason to expect anything less. I do want to make it clear though that I only baton with the blade unlocked...that first pic I did whack it in there with the blade lockee just for the pic but it's a good idea to unlock it or you're putting unnecessary strain on the lock and pivot.

[Evil D]

thanks for the testing and post. those are some crazy results. do you think pe would have similar results, or is this kind of retention and toughness a product of the smaller and more structurally sound edges on se knife.

Serrations are know for having better edge retention than PE, but I think that belief is also tied with how you're cutting things. If you think about a steak knife at a restaurant the teeth are the only part of the edge that hits your plate, while the edge inside the scallops only touches the steak, and that's why a steak knife can stay sharp (besides the fact that any decent steak should barely need cut anyway). On these tests, especially the drywall, you can see that the whole edge is getting used so I'm not sure I would believe there's any magical edge retention thing going on here. I do think PE would have been harder to get through some of these tasks like the drywall, where a sawing motion definitely helped to make the cutting action more aggressive.

[Evil D]

I got some more junk to cut up today so I thought I'd bump this thread. I've been trying to think of some materials to cut to do a more SE vs PE test so I got some retired nylon straps from work and some cut off pants legs and an old shirt since it seems one complaint people have with SE is that it makes "jagged cuts" so lets do some side by side comparisons to see how true that is.



First lets cut up some pants legs. This stuff is thin but will show fraying/jagged edges well:

Caribbean:


Shaman:


One more of the Caribbean with the fabric rolled up:



Pretty much the same results.


Next some random nylon strap. I'm not even sure what this is, it's similar to a seat belt but not quite as thick.

Caribbean:


Shaman


Pretty much the same cut. The Shaman may look slightly more jagged but I may have cut more across the weave which caused a bit more fraying.


Next up is a rolled up cotton t-shirt.


Caribbean:


Shaman:


Again, pretty much the same cut, no signs of jagged cuts. I will say it felt like the Shaman had less resistance going through the shirt, in fact it almost push cut through it while the Caribbean took a bit more force to pull through.

[Evil D]

Last lets do some 4000lb tow straps:

Caribbean, one layer thick:


Shaman, one layer thick:


Caribbean, two layers thick:



Shaman, two layers thick, failed to make the same cut:






Now, that Shaman is very sharp even after the first cut through the single layer but I was a little surprised how hard it slipped off the double layer and it took a LOT of force to cut as much as it did. By comparison the Caribbean made both of those cuts in one pass/pull through, though it did take a very hard pull to get through it (this strap is no joke).



Just so we're clear, here's how thick the strap is:



Here's one more cut I made with the Caribbean, just rolled/twisted up so it was extra thick and stiff. All cuts were made in one single pull:

[Evil D]

As for the Shaman not making the cut, you can probably chalk that up to a similar type of situation as PE vs SE cutting rope. It does reinforce one of the biggest reasons I've moved to carrying SE exclusively, which is the peace of mind in knowing that the blade is going to make the cut and not slip off like the Shaman did. That Shaman is also stupid sharp, it's one of the sharpest factory edges I've felt and would easily tree top hair off my arm so sharpness wasn't a factor here. I can't say what grit Spyderco finish their edges with but the Caribbean may have a slightly more toothy edge?? It was just sharpened on my Goldenstone last night.

So, not exactly torture test level of cuts here but that nylon strap I think is definitely within the realm of hard use, due to how much force it takes to cut through it, there is no doubt a lot of force applied to the pivot area. The Caribbean would also cleanly slice phone book paper after all these cuts but it wouldn't push cut at 90 degrees from 1 inch away from where I held the paper. It would still make clean swipe slices through phone book paper without ripping.






What's next?

[Sumdumguy]

Glorious!

Many a challenger hath stepped forth...
All met with swift and crushing defeat!

[Bill1170]

This is great stuff Evil D!

Very impressive how that edge took all that hard use and still remained workably sharp. I can't help wondering how H-1 would have compared...

How about some reckless wood carving? Something hard and seasoned. I don't suppose y'all have Osage Orange wood in your area do you?

I started out with this log I cut in the spring and planned to baton through it but I quickly realized it was far too hard. I probably could split it in half down the middle but going across the grain felt like I was trying to cut through a lead pipe.

In fact, lead pipes (supply or drain) are very easy to baton through. Lead is softer than almost all dry hardwood, and not fibrous. I’ve batoned a flat bar through lead pipes and it’s surprisingly easy to do.

[Holland]

This thread is awesome, keep it going David!

Could try to emulate hitting a bone when skinning an animal? Try to cut some ribs in half or something :D

[Wartstein]

This thread is awesome, keep it going David!

Could try to emulate hitting a bone when skinning an animal? Try to cut some ribs in half or something :D

Not a hunter or butcher at all, but bone, especially old, dry one, can be mean to TIPS of knives... snapped a rather sturdy tip on a N690 fixed blade once when I tried to carve some figurine out of bone...

[Evil D]

This thread is awesome, keep it going David!

Could try to emulate hitting a bone when skinning an animal? Try to cut some ribs in half or something :D

We make ribs pretty regularly, I'll see what I can do :D

[Wartstein]

I've got a SE Caribbean awaiting your torture test suggestions. Come at me bro. ....
....

David and others, any data on how SE LC200N compares to SE VG10 concerning toughness and such torture tests?

For me VG10 is more than rustproof enough, so if it is somewhat like LC200N concerning toughness I´d have no need for the latter (but can´t compare myself, don´t have any LC knives)

See also this thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83741 I started once, where knowledgable people give their impressions on LC200 N vs VG10 and S30V (but not necessarely concerning toughness)

[Evil D]

I've got a SE Caribbean awaiting your torture test suggestions. Come at me bro. ....
....

David and others, any data on how SE LC200N compares to SE VG10 concerning toughness and such torture tests?

For me VG10 is more than rustproof enough, so if it is somewhat like LC200N concerning toughness I´d have no need for the latter (but can´t compare myself, don´t have any LC knives)

See also this thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83741 I started once, where knowledgable people give their impressions on LC200 N vs VG10 and S30V (but not necessarely concerning toughness)

I've never used VG10/SE that hard but I would suspect it would do pretty well. I've never had any major chipping and rolling issues with VG10 in either edge type.