Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.

Which one/s is/are the best? Pick up to 2 choices!

Smock
27
29%
Ikuchi
36
39%
Turtles
29
32%
 
Total votes: 92

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youmakemehole
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Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby youmakemehole » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:28 am

UPDATE 4/19 12:07PST: Votes will be locked in by Saturday evening - be sure to make yours count! Members who have not cast their votes yet will still be able to use their two votes anytime before or after this occurs.

Enough has been said, no need to make this more complicated than it is...

If you highly value objectivity, context, specificity, or general properness in any form this may not be the thread for you...

If you have never heard of the poll options, you are more than welcome to vote for whatever sounds cooler to you, if you think there is more than 1 equally cool option, you can vote for two as well, just not for all 3. *Sorry*

Opinions expressed here will not be discriminated against, they can be as technical, thoughtful, backed with experience and facts, or they can be totally subjective, one-sided, and unfounded on any real evidence or experience as well... there is only one rule and that is have good vibes only if you post here, please and thank you!

I think the reception for both of these Taichung flippers have been very favorable to say the least, and I figured not only would it be cool to see a quantitative comparison of the enthusiasm here for each model, but also to have an active discussion involving both as well. Let the battle begin!


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Edit: added pics
Last edited by youmakemehole on Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:07 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby Wartstein » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:54 am

Full disclosure: Never handled a smock or an Ikuchi. But of course I read a lot and informed myself about these two in many aspects really interesting new models. Just for me personally, though I really like to look at both and enjoy the great designs, none of these two is an absolute must-have, the Smock a bit heavy for the actual (not so long) amount of edge, the Ikuchi a bit narrow in the blade, and cf is not my favorite handle material.

Still, if I had to decide:

- If I could add (just) one of the two models to my existing collection: Ikuchi, no doubt
- If I had to choose one as the one and only knife I could own (and no other knife at all generally): Smock, also no doubt...

So, I voted for both.. ;)
Last edited by Wartstein on Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby holeshot » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:00 am

I own both and have been carrying both regularly. They are excellent EDC knives. I find the Ikuchi a better slicer due to the thin blade stock and full flat grind and the Smock a better cutter and chopper based on its blade shape. Get both you won’t be disappointed. :)
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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby Zatx » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:17 am

Love them both. Smock gets more pocket time because of the fidget factor; its action is much smoother and more fun to flip.

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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby youmakemehole » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:18 am

Wartstein wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:54 am
Full disclosure: Never handled a smock or an Ikuchi. But of course I read a lot and informed myself about these two in many aspects really interesting new models. Just for me personally, though I really like to look at both and enjoy the great designs, none of these two is an absolute must-have, the Smock a bit heavy for the actual (not so long) amount of edge, the Ikuchi a bit narrow in the blade, and cf is not my favorite handle material.

Still, if I had to decide:

- If I could add (just) one of the two models to my existing collection: Ikuchi, no doubt
- If I had to choose one as the only knife I could own: Smock, also no doubt...

So, I voted for both.. ;)
I think your analysis is pretty spot on – I personally have not been able to compare both either, I have the Ikuchi though and I do plan on getting a smock sometime in the near future. I don't think there is any knife quite like the Ikuchi out there, as far as its originality and innovativeness in both design and aesthetic. And so yes I'd agree it is to me the more special one of the two. Not to say the smock is not original, but it is just a bit more tame as far as what it tries to accomplish. However, with its ~4mm ish blade or however thick it is and its nice hollow grind and thick liners, its going to be far more usable than the Ikuchi and can hang easily with most "hard-use" folders I'd imagine. So if I had no knife at all, Id be right there with you in picking the smock as my one and only. I'm really looking forward to finding out how long the smock will last before I get tired of it as a fidget toy - it certainly looks like a lot of fun!
"Sometimes I think that we're all little kids trying to act like grown ups, in our parents clothes. ;) "

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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby TkoK83Spy » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:20 am

It is cool to see two new models, way out of the typical Spyderco realm that are apparently BIG HITS with the customers!

I don't own an Ikuchi, as the design doesn't appeal to me. I was lucky enough to get a Smock during it's first run and am actually carrying it today. I'm not much of a fiddler with my knives, but this one...yea I fiddle a bit. Similar to the Ikuchi, I LOVE how the Smock just disappears into my pocket. I was a bit worried about the handle design working for me ergonomically. Fits like a glove when I grab it and place my middle finger in the groove of the handle and my index finger on the flat spot just before the "choil"

Though I wish there was a little jimping on the flipper tab, it hasn't been a problem and is an excellent way to deploy the blade. The hole is a bit small, but still accessible for a thumb or middle finger flip to open it, so it's nice to have a variety of opening methods on this model.

And lets be honest here...it's one bad a$$ looking knife!!!

8ZdWi7Eh.jpg
Currently have 17 :spyder: 's in 13 different steels.

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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby Wartstein » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:36 am

youmakemehole wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:18 am
Wartstein wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:54 am
Full disclosure: Never handled a smock or an Ikuchi. But of course I read a lot and informed myself about these two in many aspects really interesting new models. Just for me personally, though I really like to look at both and enjoy the great designs, none of these two is an absolute must-have, the Smock a bit heavy for the actual (not so long) amount of edge, the Ikuchi a bit narrow in the blade, and cf is not my favorite handle material.

Still, if I had to decide:

- If I could add (just) one of the two models to my existing collection: Ikuchi, no doubt
- If I had to choose one as the only knife I could own: Smock, also no doubt...

So, I voted for both.. ;)
I think your analysis is pretty spot on – I personally have not been able to compare both either, I have the Ikuchi though and I do plan on getting a smock sometime in the near future. I don't think there is any knife quite like the Ikuchi out there, as far as its originality and innovativeness in both design and aesthetic. And so yes I'd agree it is to me the more special one of the two. Not to say the smock is not original, but it is just a bit more tame as far as what it tries to accomplish. However, with its ~4mm ish blade or however thick it is and its nice hollow grind and thick liners, its going to be far more usable than the Ikuchi and can hang easily with most "hard-use" folders I'd imagine. So if I had no knife at all, Id be right there with you in picking the smock as my one and only. I'm really looking forward to finding out how long the smock will last before I get tired of it as a fidget toy - it certainly looks like a lot of fun!
Thanks! As said, my little "analysis" is based just on "virtual", not brick-and-mortar facts.

And you are totally right: The Ikuchi looks like a really unique model, and if I had one, I am sure I´d carry it a lot for it has many features I like, for example good amount of edge, while beeing slim, light, and compared to the edge-length short in pocket. And though I mentioned that cf is not my favorite handle material, I think for the Ikuchi it is a perfect choice when it comes to it´s looks and style. Sure there are "grippier" handle materials, and additionally on the Ikuchi there is not much between your hand and the edge seemingly, but then it is not intended for real hard use anyway.

And concerning the Smock: I am a back lock guy really, but still could always value the ingenious design of the compression lock. Now adding a release button is even more ingenious, and very cool I think... ;)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby youmakemehole » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:37 am

I do like them holes on the Smok handle.. all 3 of them :p Funny it was the Ikuchi that helped me appreciate having those as a part of the design, as well as my Lil Temperance too. I dont think i'd mind seeing them appear more often on other models going forward, and it seems they fit in perfectly with Spyderco's main aesthetic/functional motif as well.
"Sometimes I think that we're all little kids trying to act like grown ups, in our parents clothes. ;) "

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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby Wartstein » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:47 am

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:20 am
It is cool to see two new models, way out of the typical Spyderco realm that are apparently BIG HITS with the customers!

I don't own an Ikuchi, as the design doesn't appeal to me. I was lucky enough to get a Smock during it's first run and am actually carrying it today. I'm not much of a fiddler with my knives, but this one...yea I fiddle a bit. Similar to the Ikuchi, I LOVE how the Smock just disappears into my pocket. I was a bit worried about the handle design working for me ergonomically. Fits like a glove when I grab it and place my middle finger in the groove of the handle and my index finger on the flat spot just before the "choil"

Though I wish there was a little jimping on the flipper tab, it hasn't been a problem and is an excellent way to deploy the blade. The hole is a bit small, but still accessible for a thumb or middle finger flip to open it, so it's nice to have a variety of opening methods on this model.

And lets be honest here...it's one bad a$$ looking knife!!!


8ZdWi7Eh.jpg
May I ask: Do you ever choke up on that choil, and if yes, how usable and ergonomic is it? For me it looks ok as a choil itself (so as a grove for your index finger). But on most folders who feature a choil, the handle behind the choil has a groove or narrower area for at least the middle finger either, so that index finger and middle finger are placed at the same "height" relating to the edge, or the middle finger on the handle even "higher" if you know what I mean. That is not the case with the Smock: When the index finger is in the choil, the middle finger would be obviously placed much "lower".

(Just for background: I tend to choke up on almost any folder quite often, not only if there is an actual finger choil. No problem for example to choke up on the Ricasso of the Endura, or even the actual edge of my Minigrip)
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40

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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby rabbitanarchy14 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:05 am

i like the smock because of the lock and its also a front flipper. and it looks freaking sweet. just not my size.
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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby ferider » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:35 am

Just got the Smock in the mail. Instant addition to my rotation, I love it. Best Spyderco compression lock implementation ever, and I've tried a few (the only other knife with a stand-off enforced compression lock in my collection is the Szabo, which - even for me - is a little large for frequent carry). The double detent makes the Smock super smooth to close. Love the Wharncliffe blade, hollow grind, great tip, choil, etc. I won't even try the Ikuchi as it's too small for me.
Last edited by ferider on Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby TkoK83Spy » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:42 am

Wartstein wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:47 am
TkoK83Spy wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:20 am
It is cool to see two new models, way out of the typical Spyderco realm that are apparently BIG HITS with the customers!

I don't own an Ikuchi, as the design doesn't appeal to me. I was lucky enough to get a Smock during it's first run and am actually carrying it today. I'm not much of a fiddler with my knives, but this one...yea I fiddle a bit. Similar to the Ikuchi, I LOVE how the Smock just disappears into my pocket. I was a bit worried about the handle design working for me ergonomically. Fits like a glove when I grab it and place my middle finger in the groove of the handle and my index finger on the flat spot just before the "choil"

Though I wish there was a little jimping on the flipper tab, it hasn't been a problem and is an excellent way to deploy the blade. The hole is a bit small, but still accessible for a thumb or middle finger flip to open it, so it's nice to have a variety of opening methods on this model.

And lets be honest here...it's one bad a$$ looking knife!!!


8ZdWi7Eh.jpg
May I ask: Do you ever choke up on that choil, and if yes, how usable and ergonomic is it? For me it looks ok as a choil itself (so as a grove for your index finger). But on most folders who feature a choil, the handle behind the choil has a groove or narrower area for at least the middle finger either, so that index finger and middle finger are placed at the same "height" relating to the edge, or the middle finger on the handle even "higher" if you know what I mean. That is not the case with the Smock: When the index finger is in the choil, the middle finger would be obviously placed much "lower".

(Just for background: I tend to choke up on almost any folder quite often, not only if there is an actual finger choil. No problem for example to choke up on the Ricasso of the Endura, or even the actual edge of my Minigrip)
I have tried the choil, but it just feels a bit unnatural for me. When choking up, the back of the handle of the knife tends to be a bit loose in my palm and my middle finger then feels a bit awkward in the groove of the handle. Now, this could just be because of my hand/fingers.

I also find the choil to be a bit sharp. The edge of the knife is literally right to the end of that choil, so not much room for error. I intentionally did some pull cuts when I first got this knife, utilizing the choil and it felt like the knife wanted to dig into my finger.
Last edited by TkoK83Spy on Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby Spydergirl88 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:52 am

I like turtles. And the ikuchi.
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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby TkoK83Spy » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:59 am

Spydergirl88 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:52 am
I like turtles. And the ikuchi.
I was surprised turtles don't have more votes! You ordered a Smock too didn't you?

Interested in what you think once you have handled both.
Currently have 17 :spyder: 's in 13 different steels.

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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby Spydergirl88 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:02 am

Saving my money for turtles and the Para 3 lw
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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby brj » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:05 am

Ikuchi for me.
I like a lot the front flipper on the Smock but not much else.

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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby spyderg » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:14 am

Smock, I love everything about mine. I like the design of the Ikuchi but it’s got a wire clip so no go for me. They dig in and move around in use. Perhaps one day I’ll pick one up second hand making it affordable enough to splurge on a Ripps clip, otherwise it’ll end up a $300 knife. I love turtles, the animal not the chocolates but I don’t think either would make for a very good cutting tool.
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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby DSH007 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:24 am

Really tough decision, as both are very nice knives. Looks-wise, I prefer the Smock, but I have to vote Ikuchi, based on ergos.. despite being so thin and narrow, the contours of the handle keep the knife very comfortable, even in my L/XL hands.. as opposed to the Smock, which feels like I'm trying to hang on to a stick..

Seems like it's one of my more controversial opinions, but I still believe the Smock is the least ergonomic Spyderco that I have handled.. sure it's functional and cool as h*ck, but in my hands, it's just not as comfortable..

So I guess, long story short.. Ikucki for the win.
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..well, that escalated quickly..

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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby Evil D » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:32 am

Had to vote Turtles.

The Smock has that giant chip in the blade that I can't live with, and the Ikuchi is tempting but wouldn't displace my Sliverax. If I HAD to choose one or the other it would be the Ikuchi, but I also really like turtles so..
Last edited by Evil D on Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vote: SMOCK v.s. IKUCHI

Postby Wartstein » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:34 am

TkoK83Spy wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:42 am
Wartstein wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:47 am
TkoK83Spy wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:20 am


8ZdWi7Eh.jpg
May I ask: Do you ever choke up on that choil, and if yes, how usable and ergonomic is it? For me it looks ok as a choil itself (so as a grove for your index finger). But on most folders who feature a choil, the handle behind the choil has a groove or narrower area for at least the middle finger either, so that index finger and middle finger are placed at the same "height" relating to the edge, or the middle finger on the handle even "higher" if you know what I mean. That is not the case with the Smock: When the index finger is in the choil, the middle finger would be obviously placed much "lower".

(Just for background: I tend to choke up on almost any folder quite often, not only if there is an actual finger choil. No problem for example to choke up on the Ricasso of the Endura, or even the actual edge of my Minigrip)
I have tried the choil, but it just feels a bit unnatural for me. When choking up, the back of the handle of the knife tends to be a bit loose in my palm and my middle finger then feels a bit awkward in the groove of the handle. Now, this could just be because of my hand/fingers.

I also find the choil to be a bit sharp. The edge of the knife is literally right to the end of that choil, so not much room for error. I intentionally did some pull cuts when I first got this knife, utilizing the choil and it felt like the knife wanted to dig into my finger.
Thanks for the reply!!
In that case I wonder what the "choil" is for... I mean, if it is not really usable comfortably, wouldn´t it be better if the edge was longer and extending closer to the handle?!
I did not have a closer look yet on how the release button of the comp. lock is constructed, but could it be that it REQUIRES some kind of choil, cause otherwise the infolded blade would collide with the release button mechanism? If so, that would be a real drawback of a comp. lock WITH release button, because one of the good things of the "regular" comp lock is, that it allows to construct knives with edges that go right back to the handle (see Caribbean, while for example the BBL requires the blade to have some kind of choil).
Top three going by pocket-time: Endura 4 in VG 10/Micarta-scales; Stretch 1 in VG 10; Endura 4 in HAP 40


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