Maybe Sal can answer this? What degree is the Manix edge sharpened at from the factory? How is it done there in Colorado? Slack Belt? Stone? Machine?
It looks to me that the edge is at or near 25 or maybe 25.5 degrees???
Just wondering.
Thanks
J
How are the Manix knives factory sharpened? What degree?
Mine was sharpened to pretty much exactly 15 deg per side. Which is the angle all Spyderco's are sharpened at, though I found there can be a slight variance. My Lil'T for example came in at around 17 degs. As to how they get their factory edges so sharp: that seems to be a trade secret and when I asked the same question, I was pretty much ignored until some kind person suggested not to ask :D .
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Jimmy_Dean
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Why wouldn't Sal tell me? Whats the big secret at Spyderco?
That seems stupid to me to not tell me or others how it is done at the factory. **** couldn't I take a factory tour and see fo rmyself how its done. If it is a machine I would hide that fact also. Makes for a crap edge in my book.
I can make a Spyderco sharper than out of the box, using a Japanese wet stone method. Its no big thing people have been sharpening for years and I hardly think Spyderco came up with some wiz bang new thing they won't tell anyone about. From looking at the blades they appear to be slack belt sharpened and I will clue you in A LOT OF makers, production and custom use this method one famous maker STRIDER KNIVES comes to mind Mick Strider uses a slack belt, angle is 21.5 degrees exactly.
He will even tell you the speed and grit used. So why the big mystery???? :mad:
That seems stupid to me to not tell me or others how it is done at the factory. **** couldn't I take a factory tour and see fo rmyself how its done. If it is a machine I would hide that fact also. Makes for a crap edge in my book.
I can make a Spyderco sharper than out of the box, using a Japanese wet stone method. Its no big thing people have been sharpening for years and I hardly think Spyderco came up with some wiz bang new thing they won't tell anyone about. From looking at the blades they appear to be slack belt sharpened and I will clue you in A LOT OF makers, production and custom use this method one famous maker STRIDER KNIVES comes to mind Mick Strider uses a slack belt, angle is 21.5 degrees exactly.
He will even tell you the speed and grit used. So why the big mystery???? :mad:
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4 s ter
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Jon_USA
So far in this post you've accused Sal of keeping secrets from you, being stupid, and suggested that Spyderco isn't anything special in terms of sharpness or methods. Maybe being a bit more patient and polite would work. Sal has always been wiling to share info but I'm sure running the business sometimes gets in the way of his participation here for a few days.
If you can't tell whether the edge is a "machine" edge or not without asking, then how can you say that a machine edge would be a "crap edge" I'm reasonably certain that the edges are belt ground by people holding the blades. However, I'm sure that whether it is a human or a machine holding the blade, one won't be great while the other is "crap"
Most of us didn't need you to "clue us in" to the fact that many makers use the slack belt method. Talking to us like we are fools is not the way to make friends and infuence people.
Finally, NO, you can't take a factory tour - Spyderco doesn't conduct factory tours.
A little more patience and civility would be appreciated, by me anyway.
David
So far in this post you've accused Sal of keeping secrets from you, being stupid, and suggested that Spyderco isn't anything special in terms of sharpness or methods. Maybe being a bit more patient and polite would work. Sal has always been wiling to share info but I'm sure running the business sometimes gets in the way of his participation here for a few days.
If you can't tell whether the edge is a "machine" edge or not without asking, then how can you say that a machine edge would be a "crap edge" I'm reasonably certain that the edges are belt ground by people holding the blades. However, I'm sure that whether it is a human or a machine holding the blade, one won't be great while the other is "crap"
Most of us didn't need you to "clue us in" to the fact that many makers use the slack belt method. Talking to us like we are fools is not the way to make friends and infuence people.
Finally, NO, you can't take a factory tour - Spyderco doesn't conduct factory tours.
A little more patience and civility would be appreciated, by me anyway.
David
David
"Not all who wander are lost"
"To liner or not to liner? That is the question?" -- Sal
"Rule number nine: always carry a knife." -- Special Agent Jethro Gibbs/NCIS
"Not all who wander are lost"
"To liner or not to liner? That is the question?" -- Sal
"Rule number nine: always carry a knife." -- Special Agent Jethro Gibbs/NCIS
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JDEE
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As a Knife Dealer hundreds if not thousands of commercial knives have passed through my hands and I am yet to find a better out of the box edge than on Spydercos. In my view whatever Spyderco does they do it right by the customer and that suits me. By the way as an ex-Knifemaker I always used a combination of stones to put an edge on my knives - it may not be as sharp as a slack belt but it gave me satisfaction to be able to say that my knives were hand-sharpened and many of my customers commented on my superior edges.
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thombrogan
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Belt-sanders and strops are wonderful, but the Sharpmaker and the EdgePro are where it's at for beautiful edges that don't mar the knife's looks (or waterstones if you have talent and patience like that guy in the 128 belt) and are still extremely sharp.
Not minding looks, me like sander goodest!
Not minding looks, me like sander goodest!
"I knew you before you knew you had hands!" ~Tracey Brogan
"Ah-ha! A Spyderco moment!" ~Michael Cook
"Hawkbills - Sink in the tip and let it rip!" ~Axlis
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned" ~Richard Feynman
"Ah-ha! A Spyderco moment!" ~Michael Cook
"Hawkbills - Sink in the tip and let it rip!" ~Axlis
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned" ~Richard Feynman
In the sharpmaker video Sal says 20/20. But I think with the newer steels, they may have changed to 15/15. Newer steels can hold thinner edges, might as well take advantage.
To the pessimist the glass is half empty, to the optimist the glass is half full, to the engineer its twice as big as it needs to be.
I think I am going back to using and buying only Strider Knives, I will continue to use my Buck Striders also the warranty with a Strider and Buck on the Collaboration Striders is bar none way better than anything in this industry.
Also there is no mystery with sharpening at the factory. Mick or Duane will tell you how they do it. Seems better to me that way.
No factory tour, **** with a few Guiness in hand I got a grand tour of the Strider Shop. Even looked at some designs that were coming up.
If its a question of honor or integrity I think Strider Knives will win that one.
My Spyderco collection is now up for sale.
Also there is no mystery with sharpening at the factory. Mick or Duane will tell you how they do it. Seems better to me that way.
No factory tour, **** with a few Guiness in hand I got a grand tour of the Strider Shop. Even looked at some designs that were coming up.
If its a question of honor or integrity I think Strider Knives will win that one.
My Spyderco collection is now up for sale.
Well I am sorry, that my response has caused this though I don't really know why :confused: ? For all you know, I might be a wise *** and don't know what I am talking about (which is basically the case) so as long as you don't hear it directly from Spyderco or Mr. Glesser, I would be holding off on rash decisions.
Secondly, I don't quite see how a trade secret figures in with integrity. If you have to ask how they do it, it is obviously not quite that simple and every company has the right to consider a trade secret what they like. How does that affect the integrety of the company? Considering that Spyderco knives are out of the box among the sharpest of the knives that I have personally encountered and considering that Mr. Glesser was in the sharpening business before he made knives, there might be a little more to it, than you think. If I remember correctly (this is a couple of years back, actually before I got into Spyderco knives so I don't have reference), a friend inquired what the precise angle was and was told that the angle wasn't "precise" since the knives were hand ground. How much there is to that, I don't know, but as stated in my first post, from my personal experience this seems to be correct.
Lastly, your assumption that just because somebody tells you what belt, speed and angle they are using, you know how they sharpen is obiously a fallacy. I can tell somebody what angle and stones I am using and he still wouldn't know how to sharpen a knife (why do you think there are so many threads about this over on the bladeforums?). Sharpening a knife has a lot to do with experience rather than with numbers.
I have thought about Spyderco's edge a little bit and I have looked at one under the microscope as well. Since we are here free to speculate, I will tell you that I think that the trick of Spyderco's edge is in the burr removal, which is quite a tricky problem indeed. On a stone you go to progressively finer grits, so the burr is repeatedly cut off by finer stones and since you are going manually the burr build up is very controllable. On a belt this is a bit different and the inspection of the edge tells you that the belt is actually quite coarse compared to waterstone grits. For final burr removal you go either to a strop or reverse running leather belt or leather/felt wheel with compound. However, from what I have seen under the microscope, I don't think Spyderco is doing that, an observation which is corroborated by the fact that Mr. Glesser stated a while back that he didn't think much of stropping, since he thought it left the edge weak (certain applications like a straight razor of course excluded). I think they finish their edge off directly on a fairly coarse belt, but they do so, without leaving the slightest burr. Not an easy thing to do, me thinks.
Now, I get ready with the :footinmouth: icon, and let other people tell me were I screwed up.
I will admit that I am still shaking my head about the fact that you let a single thread influence your own opinion of the performance of a knife and the integrety of a company so much that you will stop using them! Does that also mean that you would stop using Strider knives if I would write something about them that you don't like? It sounds a little bit like you were looking for an excuse. Sorry but I can't help feeling that way.
Secondly, I don't quite see how a trade secret figures in with integrity. If you have to ask how they do it, it is obviously not quite that simple and every company has the right to consider a trade secret what they like. How does that affect the integrety of the company? Considering that Spyderco knives are out of the box among the sharpest of the knives that I have personally encountered and considering that Mr. Glesser was in the sharpening business before he made knives, there might be a little more to it, than you think. If I remember correctly (this is a couple of years back, actually before I got into Spyderco knives so I don't have reference), a friend inquired what the precise angle was and was told that the angle wasn't "precise" since the knives were hand ground. How much there is to that, I don't know, but as stated in my first post, from my personal experience this seems to be correct.
Lastly, your assumption that just because somebody tells you what belt, speed and angle they are using, you know how they sharpen is obiously a fallacy. I can tell somebody what angle and stones I am using and he still wouldn't know how to sharpen a knife (why do you think there are so many threads about this over on the bladeforums?). Sharpening a knife has a lot to do with experience rather than with numbers.
I have thought about Spyderco's edge a little bit and I have looked at one under the microscope as well. Since we are here free to speculate, I will tell you that I think that the trick of Spyderco's edge is in the burr removal, which is quite a tricky problem indeed. On a stone you go to progressively finer grits, so the burr is repeatedly cut off by finer stones and since you are going manually the burr build up is very controllable. On a belt this is a bit different and the inspection of the edge tells you that the belt is actually quite coarse compared to waterstone grits. For final burr removal you go either to a strop or reverse running leather belt or leather/felt wheel with compound. However, from what I have seen under the microscope, I don't think Spyderco is doing that, an observation which is corroborated by the fact that Mr. Glesser stated a while back that he didn't think much of stropping, since he thought it left the edge weak (certain applications like a straight razor of course excluded). I think they finish their edge off directly on a fairly coarse belt, but they do so, without leaving the slightest burr. Not an easy thing to do, me thinks.
Now, I get ready with the :footinmouth: icon, and let other people tell me were I screwed up.
I will admit that I am still shaking my head about the fact that you let a single thread influence your own opinion of the performance of a knife and the integrety of a company so much that you will stop using them! Does that also mean that you would stop using Strider knives if I would write something about them that you don't like? It sounds a little bit like you were looking for an excuse. Sorry but I can't help feeling that way.
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spyderknut
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HoB,
I think Jon's mind was made up long before you wrote a word. I think we should all take opinions expressed here with a big grain of salt. Some of us are more expert than others but most of us are yahoos (myself included). Sal, Joyce and Carlos (bonified non-yahoos) can choose whether to respond to threads or not. I would love to sit down and drink a beer with Sal some day, but it is not a prerequisite for me to think he has integrity.
I think Jon's mind was made up long before you wrote a word. I think we should all take opinions expressed here with a big grain of salt. Some of us are more expert than others but most of us are yahoos (myself included). Sal, Joyce and Carlos (bonified non-yahoos) can choose whether to respond to threads or not. I would love to sit down and drink a beer with Sal some day, but it is not a prerequisite for me to think he has integrity.
Ditto to everything you said. No offense Jon but it won't break my heart if you sell your Spydercos and stop coming to the forum.spyderknut wrote:HoB,
I think Jon's mind was made up long before you wrote a word. I think we should all take opinions expressed here with a big grain of salt. Some of us are more expert than others but most of us are yahoos (myself included). Sal, Joyce and Carlos (bonified non-yahoos) can choose whether to respond to threads or not. I would love to sit down and drink a beer with Sal some day, but it is not a prerequisite for me to think he has integrity.
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4 s ter
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- Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario Canada
Jon_USA
The critical replies were not to your first question. They were to your followup posts which were insulting. It's really just your loss if a delay in answering your question is enough to make you give up Spyderco products altogether.
Have a great life!
David
The critical replies were not to your first question. They were to your followup posts which were insulting. It's really just your loss if a delay in answering your question is enough to make you give up Spyderco products altogether.
Have a great life!
David
David
"Not all who wander are lost"
"To liner or not to liner? That is the question?" -- Sal
"Rule number nine: always carry a knife." -- Special Agent Jethro Gibbs/NCIS
"Not all who wander are lost"
"To liner or not to liner? That is the question?" -- Sal
"Rule number nine: always carry a knife." -- Special Agent Jethro Gibbs/NCIS
Hi Jon.
Welcome to the Spyerco forum. I trust your sharpening skills are better than your patience.
Sorry to be slow to your request, I do have a day job.
Regarding the sharpening, we use a fairly coarse belt and we do it by hand. Angle is about 30 degrees.
We have two guys in Golden that are really good and about a dozen in Seki that are also good. It is a skill that takes a while. We also have a Goniometer and a CATRA for constant testing.
Glad to hear you like Strider knives. They make a good knife.
sal
Welcome to the Spyerco forum. I trust your sharpening skills are better than your patience.
Sorry to be slow to your request, I do have a day job.
Regarding the sharpening, we use a fairly coarse belt and we do it by hand. Angle is about 30 degrees.
We have two guys in Golden that are really good and about a dozen in Seki that are also good. It is a skill that takes a while. We also have a Goniometer and a CATRA for constant testing.
Glad to hear you like Strider knives. They make a good knife.
sal
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thombrogan
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Hi Jon_USA!
Wasn't trying to be a wiseacre in my reply. HoB was told that the :spyder: sharpening procedure was a trade secret and was relaying what he had been told. Sal was nice enough to share with us on this thread.
BTW, you've also stated problems you've had with Mick Strider when you first joined here. If you swear off every knife company that doesn't respond to you with immediate fancy-tickling replies, you're going to end up buying $20,000 folders from some tormented soul. Stay with :spyder: and get the best ratio of quality-to-price you'll ever find*.
*Yes, I know Strider and Buck Strider have amazing quality, but generally at higher prices.
Wasn't trying to be a wiseacre in my reply. HoB was told that the :spyder: sharpening procedure was a trade secret and was relaying what he had been told. Sal was nice enough to share with us on this thread.
BTW, you've also stated problems you've had with Mick Strider when you first joined here. If you swear off every knife company that doesn't respond to you with immediate fancy-tickling replies, you're going to end up buying $20,000 folders from some tormented soul. Stay with :spyder: and get the best ratio of quality-to-price you'll ever find*.
*Yes, I know Strider and Buck Strider have amazing quality, but generally at higher prices.
"I knew you before you knew you had hands!" ~Tracey Brogan
"Ah-ha! A Spyderco moment!" ~Michael Cook
"Hawkbills - Sink in the tip and let it rip!" ~Axlis
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned" ~Richard Feynman
"Ah-ha! A Spyderco moment!" ~Michael Cook
"Hawkbills - Sink in the tip and let it rip!" ~Axlis
"I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers which can't be questioned" ~Richard Feynman