Round Hole Trademark

[mb1]

Stumbled upon this today. Not sure how the trademark works, but is this legal?? Does using an insert get them around the law?

Cold Steel Golden Eye

[thewoodpecker]

https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks-gettin ... -copyright

It's not a RoundHole so technically not infringing on the trademark...IMHO it's not nearly as elegant in function as the RH.

[mb1]

https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks-gettin ... -copyright

It's not a RoundHole so technically not infringing on the trademark...IMHO it's not nearly as elegant in function as the RH.

Looks pretty round to me. DO you mean that little bump in the steel/brass interface?

[Evil D]

Looks like something someone got from a hardware store and attached to the hole. I don't understand how it's supposed to make anything better. It may aid in finger traction somehow but it's also going to snag on everything you slice. It's just not a good idea at all.


Ok wait it's flush with the blade? Ok it's just not very attractive then lol.

[ThePeacent]

it's removable, BTW
If there is a trademark, at least an enforceable one, I guess the Benchmade Round Hole Mini Grip, SOG SOGZilla, Emerson CQC10, and many other knives and brands would need to be addressed.

There's been past collabs and agreements between Spyderco and other brands, Cold Steel included, so this might be another one of those instances?

[The Mastiff]

It's difficult to know how much Spyderco owners and management can talk about and would want us to discuss this in an open forum. Way back a discussion about another company here on the forum didn't go so well and I'd imagine this probably isn't the sort of thing they would want us repeating . If my memory isn't fooling me I seem to recall that was the first time we got to hear the "shiny footprints" suggestion from Sal. If I go ahead and not post anything less than shiny that leaves me with not much to put in a thread. In fact I'm done already. :) I will say I don't intend to buy one of those.


Joe

[spyderwolf]

They found a way around the trademark,thats all.Other than endleslly bragging about the tri ad lock wich allows you to use your knife as a weight rack,there is not much excitement comming from CS,so i guess they came up with this knife watching a Bond movie while playing with a Spyderco.Its a beautiful knife,if you like the ghetto bling...

[mb1]

It's difficult to know how much Spyderco owners and management can talk about and would want us to discuss this in an open forum. Way back a discussion about another company here on the forum didn't go so well and I'd imagine this probably isn't the sort of thing they would want us repeating . If my memory isn't fooling me I seem to recall that was the first time we got to hear the "shiny footprints" suggestion from Sal. If I go ahead and not post anything less than shiny that leaves me with not much to put in a thread. In fact I'm done already. :) I will say I don't intend to buy one of those.


Joe

Aw come on, we give unsolicited advice here on every other facet of managing this company - quality, supply chain, engineering, production scheduling, design and marketing. Why not be the legal department too?

I hear ya. It just shocked me and pissed me off a little. And it made me wonder about the law (Woodpecker's link showed me Trademarks do not expire. Wasn't sure about that.). Seemed like it should be flagged, but I understand how a discussion could quickly devolve too. If noting counterfeits is all that is asked or welcomed, I get it. I will click the other way when I run across the less creative companies that rely on the design features of others to make a buck.

@TazKristi please nuke this if you would rather not have this discussed.

[The Deacon]

IANAL, but the way I see it, Spyderco's trademark covers a round hole in the blade that can be used as an opening device while the Golden Eye's opener is a blade insert with a round hole in it. I'd call it a sneaky end run around the trademark, but not a direct violation of it.

[JenWrath]

Eh, I doubt they were trying to infringe on anything. Andrew Demko is a stand up guy as far as all he's shown for the last 10+ years. Many, many companies now use a hole in some form in lieu of a thumbstud.

Cold Steel makes some excellent working man's knives at some pretty great prices. They aren't everyone's cup of tea and only recently have they gotten serious about trying to branch out in using different steels and trying out some more risque designs. I don't think they have those designs refined yet, as this knife shows.

But bringing up another company's product in the first company's main forum and wording it like you're indirectly calling them thieves is bound to bring out negative comments moreso than positive ones.

Cold Steel's promotional videos where they test other company's knives against their lock? Demko has ALWAYS been nothing but respectful towards the Spydercos his boss tells him to test and repeatedly states that they are great knives - he genuinely likes their designs, especially the compression lock. ****, he looked like he was eager to take apart the Tatanka and was pretty impressed with how Sal designed the Power Lock.

As Demko has designed ~90% of CS' product line that's currently available and is an accomplished custom knife maker on top of that, I VERY MUCH doubt he tried to copy anything from Spyderco's line.

2 of the other big knife companies have multiple offerings with round holes. They sell very well. Cold Steel went a bit extra to try and make their offering different.

Said my piece, I'm out of this one now too.

EDIT: Few grammar and spelling errors. Just finished a 10 hr shift.

[ThePeacent]

Eh, I doubt they were trying to infringe on anything. Andrew Demko is a stand up guy as far as all he's shown for the last 10+ years. Many, many companies now use a hole in some form in lieu of a thumbstud.

Cold Steel makes some excellent working man's knives at some pretty great prices. They aren't everyone's cup of tea and only recently have they gotten serious about trying to branch out in using different steels and trying out some more risque designs. I don't think they have those designs refined yet, as this knife shows.

But bringing up another company's product in the first company's main forum and wording it like you're indirectly calling them thieves is bound to bring out negative comments moreso than positive ones.

Cold Steel's promotional videos where they test other company's knives against their lock? Demko has ALWAYS been nothing but respectful towards the Spydercos his boss tells him to test and repeatedly states that they are great knives - he genuinely likes their designs, especially the compression lock. ****, he looked like he was eager to take apart the Tatanka and was pretty impressed with how Sal designed the Power Lock.

As Demko has designed ~90% of CS' product line that's currently available and is an accomplished custom knife maker on top of that, I VERY MUCH doubt he tried to copy anything from Spyderco's line.

2 of the other big knife companies have multiple offerings with round holes. They sell very well. Cold Steel went a bit extra to try and make their offering different.

Said my piece, I'm out of this one now too.

EDIT: Few grammar and spelling errors. Just finished a 10 hr shift.

Demko has always been respectful and polite towards other brands, makers and designers, arguably much more so than Mr. Thompson.
He always credits others for their work and achievements, and asks for permission to use patents and ideas just as he'd like to be asked before using a Tri-Ad or any other feature he's been the creator of.

For instance, for his recent Black Talon II design they asked Spyderco beforehand about whether they could use the famous "Reverse S" blade shape on their new 2017 model, and they mention them in the knife's description.



It's no war, just good ol' plain collaboration, sane competition and pure innovative designs shared and used by the great designers and CEOs of today's main knife brands

I like and carry both brands as my favorite bladed gear and cutting tools since many years ago



long live both companies and their teams!

[spyderwolf]

Too much civility on this post.I'm out.

[Bloke]

Like The Deacon, I too am not a lawyer but Peacent my friend I think you may be in breach of Spyderco's Trademark because you close the holes with nuts and bolts ... but I'm not sure. :confused:

[ThePeacent]

Like The Deacon, I too am not a lawyer but Peacent my friend I think you may be in breach of Spyderco's Trademark because you close the holes with nuts and bolts ... but I'm not sure. :confused:

worry not, as these are easy to take off and don't have permanent effect unlike grinding does
See? Now you've got bolts...



now you don't!

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Well while we're on the subject of the trade marked round hole, how about this beauty, the Fox Knives Bantay, I believe it was designed with help from a Slovenian military man:

https://cuchilleriaalbacete.com/co-en-2 ... itary.html

Though the blade hole is more oval than actually round, its still a form of mimicry?

[Evil D]

Well, much like the pocket clip, some ideas are just too great to keep all to yourself. When an idea is such an improvement in performance or usability it really needs to be shared. I think at this point everyone knows who originated the round hole.

Volvo invented the 3 point seatbelt and gave the patent away to other auto makers because they saw the great increase in safety it provided. They could have gotten rich by selling the rights to use the design, or sat back and watched other companies continue using lap belts and continue watching people die because of it, but they gave the idea away for the better of the industry and their consumers.

[veeteetee]

I´ve studied the trademark question every once in while and as I understand it - which may be quite wrong, so please forgive me - The Original Spyderco patent US4347665 of 1982 shows "...indention or depression..." and later "...indentation 34...", not a hole in the blade. Thus, it seems an opening hole was never patended and in any case the patent would have expired in 36 years. This would mean, that everybody and any company is free to make a round hole in a folder blade.

However, it seems that "Spyderco Round Hole" is trademarked as a specific name, though I haven´t seen the actual trade mark number mentioned anywhere. If anybody can provide it, please feel free.

Please don´t take this as any kind of attack on Spyderco, I´ve been carrying Spydies ever day for the last 20+ years and will continue to do so and I have alson written around 20 pcs of T&E articles on Spydies. The Hole is great!