Why doesn't Persistence get a better treatment ?

[elena86]

A better steel maybe ? Black blade and hardware ? You name it ....

Marius

[twinboysdad]

It has. It is called the Military and currently available in many variations and choices.

[twinboysdad]

That was meant in fun by the way, not trying to be a wise a$$

[bearfacedkiller]

The Persistence is the little one. The resilience is the bigger one.

I would say it has to do with economics. They are meant to be budget knives. That was the whole point of going to china. Upgrades would make it less competitive at it's price point. The Persistence is nice and I have handled one a lot. I sharpened one for a friend a few times. It is a chunky little thing but rock solid.

There have been some variations of the Tenacious. I think that has to do with sales. Just from what I have seen online I think the Tenacious outsells the other two by a large margin. My local Walmart stocks only one Spydie and it is a Tenacious. That is another reason I assume it outsells the others by a large margin.

[Evil D]

I've made threads about this in the past. It seems to me that people are unable to separate the value aspect of these models, and are just unwilling to spend more even for better materials. It's as if the design itself is seen as inferior and not worthy of upgrades if it means higher cost.

Personally I'd sooner buy a Golden made Persistence with X steel/etc than an equally priced Para 2, but people see the Para 2 as a better design and I think that's part of their justification of cost. Once something is presented as "cheap" it seems people can't see it as anything else, even though I have no doubt if these knives were originally released as higher end models they would be crazy popular.

[twinboysdad]

The Persistence is the little one. The resilience is the bigger one. .

Trying to be funny and the jokes on me!

[bearfacedkiller]

^ Ha! All good brother!

[MissingMontana]

I've made threads about this in the past. It seems to me that people are unable to separate the value aspect of these models, and are just unwilling to spend more even for better materials. It's as if the design itself is seen as inferior and not worthy of upgrades if it means higher cost.

Personally I'd sooner buy a Golden made Persistence with X steel/etc than an equally priced Para 2, but people see the Para 2 as a better design and I think that's part of their justification of cost. Once something is presented as "cheap" it seems people can't see it as anything else, even though I have no doubt if these knives were originally released as higher end models they would be crazy popular.

The issue is not only "perceived value" and customers' ability to pay.
The Value Line was probably created to fill a need in a particular market.....one of those markets being the entry level buyer.
The marketing strategy is obviously working if the Tenacious is outselling it's competition.

To address your question:
to upgrade the steel for example, would probably push the price point beyond the reach of the intended market. There would also be great cost incurred if the tooling and manufacturing process was moved to Golden.....having the same effect as upgrading the steel.
There are other models that fill that higher end market.

There is a limit to what anyone will pay for any given item.....perceived value forms part of that buying decision, as well as the individual's budget concerns.

[MissingMontana]

To add to my comments above....if the marketing department wishes to move the customer to a higher price point item, then the benefits of the upgraded knife need to be addressed and the customer made aware of those, all the while keeping in mind the customers' budget. Sometimes, budget is a large factor, particularly with discretionary items.

[WireEdge Roger]

I've always wanted a premium Tenacious. That's such a great folder as is, imagine a Golden Made version!

[jmh58]

I've always wanted a premium Tenacious. That's such a great folder as is, imagine a Golden Made version!

This... :D John

[Evil D]

I've made threads about this in the past. It seems to me that people are unable to separate the value aspect of these models, and are just unwilling to spend more even for better materials. It's as if the design itself is seen as inferior and not worthy of upgrades if it means higher cost.

Personally I'd sooner buy a Golden made Persistence with X steel/etc than an equally priced Para 2, but people see the Para 2 as a better design and I think that's part of their justification of cost. Once something is presented as "cheap" it seems people can't see it as anything else, even though I have no doubt if these knives were originally released as higher end models they would be crazy popular.

The issue is not only "perceived value" and customers' ability to pay.
The Value Line was probably created to fill a need in a particular market.....one of those markets being the entry level buyer.
The marketing strategy is obviously working if the Tenacious is outselling it's competition.

To address your question:
to upgrade the steel for example, would probably push the price point beyond the reach of the intended market. There would also be great cost incurred if the tooling and manufacturing process was moved to Golden.....having the same effect as upgrading the steel.
There are other models that fill that higher end market.

There is a limit to what anyone will pay for any given item.....perceived value forms part of that buying decision, as well as the individual's budget concerns.

Your post sums up exactly what I'm trying to say. Increasing the cost would obviously move it away from the "value" line, nobody is arguing that it wouldn't. The problem is people's inability to separate the two. People just can't seem to grasp a "value" knife being bumped up in materials/fit and finish and being on par with a Para 2. They immediately focus in on the fact that this "value" knife now costs more and is no longer in their budget. Yeah well no kidding, is the Para 2 in their budget? I'm literally suggesting a Persistence that is not a value line model, and would therefor be in the budget of people who buy the Para 2, but people just can't wrap their minds around that and have this attitude that the model itself just isn't worth the increased cost, which I think is extremely opinionated.

[MissingMontana]

I've made threads about this in the past. It seems to me that people are unable to separate the value aspect of these models, and are just unwilling to spend more even for better materials. It's as if the design itself is seen as inferior and not worthy of upgrades if it means higher cost.

Personally I'd sooner buy a Golden made Persistence with X steel/etc than an equally priced Para 2, but people see the Para 2 as a better design and I think that's part of their justification of cost. Once something is presented as "cheap" it seems people can't see it as anything else, even though I have no doubt if these knives were originally released as higher end models they would be crazy popular.

The issue is not only "perceived value" and customers' ability to pay.
The Value Line was probably created to fill a need in a particular market.....one of those markets being the entry level buyer.
The marketing strategy is obviously working if the Tenacious is outselling it's competition.

To address your question:
to upgrade the steel for example, would probably push the price point beyond the reach of the intended market. There would also be great cost incurred if the tooling and manufacturing process was moved to Golden.....having the same effect as upgrading the steel.
There are other models that fill that higher end market.

There is a limit to what anyone will pay for any given item.....perceived value forms part of that buying decision, as well as the individual's budget concerns.

Your post sums up exactly what I'm trying to say. Increasing the cost would obviously move it away from the "value" line, nobody is arguing that it wouldn't. The problem is people's inability to separate the two. People just can't seem to grasp a "value" knife being bumped up in materials/fit and finish and being on par with a Para 2. They immediately focus in on the fact that this "value" knife now costs more and is no longer in their budget. Yeah well no kidding, is the Para 2 in their budget? I'm literally suggesting a Persistence that is not a value line model, and would therefor be in the budget of people who buy the Para 2, but people just can't wrap their minds around that and have this attitude that the model itself just isn't worth the increased cost, which I think is extremely opinionated.

I agree completely.
I've seen these threads as well, and there appears to be a disconnect between price point and the consumer.....very simply, selling price is determined by various factors, including to a large extent, manufacturing costs.

Also, there is perceived value in the eyes of Customer A by paying X for a particular item. Customer B may not see the value in paying X for that same item, and will look for a "better value"....which may very well be a lower priced item.
Again, a manufacturer will provide several items at different price points to accommodate the market.

[standy99]

Better for any company having several products in several price points. This covers a larger customer base.

Most car manufacturers have the exact same philosophy and sell more cars than the companies that have only high end products that sell in lesser numbers.

Don't forget that 80% of the worlds population lives on less than $10 a day (and 50% on less that $2.50) and a $200 knife that we buy would be never dreamt of.

[MissingMontana]

Better for any company having several products in several price points. This covers a larger customer base.

Most car manufacturers have the exact same philosophy and sell more cars than the companies that have only high end products that sell in lesser numbers.

Don't forget that 80% of the worlds population lives on less than $10 a day (and 50% on less that $2.50) and a $200 knife that we buy would be never dreamt of.

^^^^^^^^^^^
This.

[Evil D]

Better for any company having several products in several price points. This covers a larger customer base.

Most car manufacturers have the exact same philosophy and sell more cars than the companies that have only high end products that sell in lesser numbers.

Don't forget that 80% of the worlds population lives on less than $10 a day (and 50% on less that $2.50) and a $200 knife that we buy would be never dreamt of.

I've used the car analogy in this debate too, and it only supports what I'm saying. You can take a Corolla and give it a slew of upgrades and make it a serious performer but it will still be a Corolla to most people.

Interestingly enough, you can take a Lancer and do exactly the same and then call it an Evolution and people froth at the mouth over it.

[standy99]

I call the products like the Persistence - Gateway Products

Gets the foot in the door for younger and less financial buyers into a brand.

And we all know what happens then, Spydercos sitting everywhere and the family is eating beans

[MissingMontana]

Interestingly enough, you can take a Lancer and do exactly the same and then call it an Evolution and people froth at the mouth over it.

I agree completely.
Marketing in action....

[twinboysdad]

I've always wanted a premium Tenacious. That's such a great folder as is, imagine a Golden Made version!

There are certain posters on here that I seem to always agree with, and you are one ROGER. Jazz is another. Only way I buy a Tenacious is with better steel but I like the model immensely