That thing you're not suppose to do ....

[anycal]

Perhaps the terminology is confusing. There should be only one definition for warranty. It is either covered by warranty or it is not. But there are three ways a returned product will go through the RMA process.

Level one - warranty eligible. Company will fix or replace the product free of charge.

Level two - billable repair. It is not covered by warranty, but company is willing to fix it for a fee or replace it for at a discount.

Level three - beyond repair. Not covered by warranty, or warranty has expired, and company will not fix the issue.

At some point there is no defining line between the three stages. It is up to the tech or manager to determine the final disposition of the item. This, doubtlessly, effects how one perceives customer service. It is a balancing act (making $$ vs loosing $$; keeping customers vs loosing customers). Can't please everyone all the time.

[Spider bite]

Red loctite on a knife just seems crazy to me

[ZrowsN1s]

Red loctite on a knife just seems crazy to me

Red locktite resulted in less lost hardware. Spyderco tries but they can't stock replacement parts for EVERY knife they've ever made, especially when they are made in three different countries. Better if people don't have screws come lose in the first place. If you never take your knife apart, red locktite is a benefit, if you like to take your knife apart it is a big pain. The people who take their knives apart are I think in the minority of users, but ultimately after talking with people here on the forum, Spyderco and crew made the decison to no longer use Red Locktite on future Spyderco releases. So rest easy. :D

[Midwest Diesel Tech]

Red loctite on a knife just seems crazy to me

Red locktite resulted in less lost hardware. Spyderco tries but they can't stock replacement parts for EVERY knife they've ever made, especially when they are made in three different countries. Better if people don't have screws come lose in the first place. If you never take your knife apart, red locktite is a benefit, if you like to take your knife apart it is a big pain. The people who take their knives apart are I think in the minority of users, but ultimately after talking with people here on the forum, Spyderco and crew made the decison to no longer use Red Locktite on future Spyderco releases. So rest easy. :D

I'm cursed with the minority of users taking stuff apart syndrome. Always taking things apart to see what makes it tick and putting It back together. I've learned my lesson on tiny fasteners . Next project I have lined up is attempting to cut scales for a crossbill. Also going to attempt to bond it with adhesive. Btw... matriarch 2 is done but I can't get the pictures to post. I have a Flickr account. Just struggling on where to paste link in the right place

[ZrowsN1s]

Ya I take Most of my knives apart as well. Give me a sec and I'll post some images to walk you through posting the links.

[Midwest Diesel Tech]

https://flic.kr/p/VCUs3R

[ZrowsN1s]

[Midwest Diesel Tech]

That's what I attempted. I think I know what the problem is. I'm browsing on my phone. It's trying to autocorrect it. What a nightmare. I'll try from my desktop tomorrow . Thank you for the walk through

[ZrowsN1s]

No problem. We'll get it sorted out eventually :D

[anagarika]

That's what I attempted. I think I know what the problem is. I'm browsing on my phone. It's trying to autocorrect it. What a nightmare. I'll try from my desktop tomorrow . Thank you for the walk through

Fickr BB codes only appear on its desktop browser version.
The flickr app in phone (on iOS) only provides that short URL, but not the BB codes.

I see you got the Wise Men scale. Thanks for sharing.

[dplafoll]

I don't see anything that voids the warranty except "Repairs to your knife performed by any source other than Spyderco Inc."

"Spyderco’s warranty does not cover damage caused by abuse, misuse, loss, improper handling, alterations, accident, neglect, disassembly, or improper sharpening."

I guess there's still confusion.
Big difference in what voids a warranty vs what's not covered.

From the Spyderco website (> replaces the dots for each point):
" > Spyderco warrants that all of our products are free from defects in material and workmanship.
> Repairs to your knife performed by any source other than Spyderco Inc. unconditionally voids the knife’s warranty.
> Spyderco’s warranty does not cover damage caused by abuse, misuse, loss, improper handling, alterations, accident, neglect, disassembly, or improper sharpening.
> If a knife fails to function as it was designed, we will examine its condition upon its return to Spyderco, identify why it failed and respond in an appropriate manner.
> If we determine there is a defect in the manufacture/materials/workmanship, Spyderco will repair, or replace that product with the same model or one of equal value at its own expense.
> If a problem with a returned knife is determined to be caused by something other than a defect in manufacture/materials/workmanship, Spyderco will inform you of whether the product can be repaired and the cost to you of having Spyderco implement such repair (see below). Upon agreement and payment, we will perform the repair.
> If Spyderco is unable to improve the condition of the knife, we will return it to you with the recommendation it be retired from use. All costs associated with shipment of the product(s) are the responsibility of the customer."


OK so what I think you're saying is that "voids a warranty" and "what's not covered" are not necessarily equivalent. I think you're right in a certain way. If you have a 3rd party repair the knife, the warranty is void, period. I would assume that means that ALL of the warranty is void, in contrast to the list in the third point above. In that point, we're told that the warranty doesn't cover damage as a result of any of a list of causes. But, if you have an issue with the blade, say, your having disassembled and reassembled the knife does not void the warranty on the blade (even if you strip a screw or something). In essence, point 3 points to case-by-case and possibly part-by-part consideration, but point 2 is an unambiguous statement that covers the whole knife, and the whole warranty.

The question I'd have is if I sent a knife to a sharpening service and they do something unfortunate, does that fall under 3rd-party repair (thereby voiding ALL of the warranty) or "improper sharpening" (leaving other parts subject to warranty repair)? Or is "improper sharpening" limited to the owner only?

[MichaelScott]

"Spyderco’s warranty does not cover damage caused by abuse, misuse, loss, improper handling, alterations, accident, neglect, disassembly, or improper sharpening."

So, the damaged blade from sharpening would not be covered. But, if the lock mechanism, for example, did not operate properly due to defect in materials or original workmanship, I would hazard that it would be covered.

[jpm2]

I don't see anything that voids the warranty except "Repairs to your knife performed by any source other than Spyderco Inc."

"Spyderco’s warranty does not cover damage caused by abuse, misuse, loss, improper handling, alterations, accident, neglect, disassembly, or improper sharpening."

I guess there's still confusion.
Big difference in what voids a warranty vs what's not covered.

From the Spyderco website (> replaces the dots for each point):
" > Spyderco warrants that all of our products are free from defects in material and workmanship.
> Repairs to your knife performed by any source other than Spyderco Inc. unconditionally voids the knife’s warranty.
> Spyderco’s warranty does not cover damage caused by abuse, misuse, loss, improper handling, alterations, accident, neglect, disassembly, or improper sharpening.
> If a knife fails to function as it was designed, we will examine its condition upon its return to Spyderco, identify why it failed and respond in an appropriate manner.
> If we determine there is a defect in the manufacture/materials/workmanship, Spyderco will repair, or replace that product with the same model or one of equal value at its own expense.
> If a problem with a returned knife is determined to be caused by something other than a defect in manufacture/materials/workmanship, Spyderco will inform you of whether the product can be repaired and the cost to you of having Spyderco implement such repair (see below). Upon agreement and payment, we will perform the repair.
> If Spyderco is unable to improve the condition of the knife, we will return it to you with the recommendation it be retired from use. All costs associated with shipment of the product(s) are the responsibility of the customer."


OK so what I think you're saying is that "voids a warranty" and "what's not covered" are not necessarily equivalent. I think you're right in a certain way. If you have a 3rd party repair the knife, the warranty is void, period. I would assume that means that ALL of the warranty is void, in contrast to the list in the third point above. In that point, we're told that the warranty doesn't cover damage as a result of any of a list of causes. But, if you have an issue with the blade, say, your having disassembled and reassembled the knife does not void the warranty on the blade (even if you strip a screw or something). In essence, point 3 points to case-by-case and possibly part-by-part consideration, but point 2 is an unambiguous statement that covers the whole knife, and the whole warranty.

The question I'd have is if I sent a knife to a sharpening service and they do something unfortunate, does that fall under 3rd-party repair (thereby voiding ALL of the warranty) or "improper sharpening" (leaving other parts subject to warranty repair)? Or is "improper sharpening" limited to the owner only?

I think we're on the same page.
As for the question, I don't consider sharpening a repair, it's necessary maintenance and care, regardless of who does it.

[dplafoll]

I don't see anything that voids the warranty except "Repairs to your knife performed by any source other than Spyderco Inc."

"Spyderco’s warranty does not cover damage caused by abuse, misuse, loss, improper handling, alterations, accident, neglect, disassembly, or improper sharpening."

I guess there's still confusion.
Big difference in what voids a warranty vs what's not covered.

From the Spyderco website (> replaces the dots for each point):
" > Spyderco warrants that all of our products are free from defects in material and workmanship.
> Repairs to your knife performed by any source other than Spyderco Inc. unconditionally voids the knife’s warranty.
> Spyderco’s warranty does not cover damage caused by abuse, misuse, loss, improper handling, alterations, accident, neglect, disassembly, or improper sharpening.
> If a knife fails to function as it was designed, we will examine its condition upon its return to Spyderco, identify why it failed and respond in an appropriate manner.
> If we determine there is a defect in the manufacture/materials/workmanship, Spyderco will repair, or replace that product with the same model or one of equal value at its own expense.
> If a problem with a returned knife is determined to be caused by something other than a defect in manufacture/materials/workmanship, Spyderco will inform you of whether the product can be repaired and the cost to you of having Spyderco implement such repair (see below). Upon agreement and payment, we will perform the repair.
> If Spyderco is unable to improve the condition of the knife, we will return it to you with the recommendation it be retired from use. All costs associated with shipment of the product(s) are the responsibility of the customer."


OK so what I think you're saying is that "voids a warranty" and "what's not covered" are not necessarily equivalent. I think you're right in a certain way. If you have a 3rd party repair the knife, the warranty is void, period. I would assume that means that ALL of the warranty is void, in contrast to the list in the third point above. In that point, we're told that the warranty doesn't cover damage as a result of any of a list of causes. But, if you have an issue with the blade, say, your having disassembled and reassembled the knife does not void the warranty on the blade (even if you strip a screw or something). In essence, point 3 points to case-by-case and possibly part-by-part consideration, but point 2 is an unambiguous statement that covers the whole knife, and the whole warranty.

The question I'd have is if I sent a knife to a sharpening service and they do something unfortunate, does that fall under 3rd-party repair (thereby voiding ALL of the warranty) or "improper sharpening" (leaving other parts subject to warranty repair)? Or is "improper sharpening" limited to the owner only?

I think we're on the same page.
As for the question, I don't consider sharpening a repair, it's necessary maintenance and care, regardless of who does it.

Ideally that would be the case, and if the owner damages it through sharpening it's clearly under the 3rd point. But Spyderco may consider a 3rd-party sharpening to void the warranty just because it's a 3rd party, even if it's not really a "repair", per se.

[jpm2]

I don't see anything that voids the warranty except "Repairs to your knife performed by any source other than Spyderco Inc."

"Spyderco’s warranty does not cover damage caused by abuse, misuse, loss, improper handling, alterations, accident, neglect, disassembly, or improper sharpening."

I guess there's still confusion.
Big difference in what voids a warranty vs what's not covered.

From the Spyderco website (> replaces the dots for each point):
" > Spyderco warrants that all of our products are free from defects in material and workmanship.
> Repairs to your knife performed by any source other than Spyderco Inc. unconditionally voids the knife’s warranty.
> Spyderco’s warranty does not cover damage caused by abuse, misuse, loss, improper handling, alterations, accident, neglect, disassembly, or improper sharpening.
> If a knife fails to function as it was designed, we will examine its condition upon its return to Spyderco, identify why it failed and respond in an appropriate manner.
> If we determine there is a defect in the manufacture/materials/workmanship, Spyderco will repair, or replace that product with the same model or one of equal value at its own expense.
> If a problem with a returned knife is determined to be caused by something other than a defect in manufacture/materials/workmanship, Spyderco will inform you of whether the product can be repaired and the cost to you of having Spyderco implement such repair (see below). Upon agreement and payment, we will perform the repair.
> If Spyderco is unable to improve the condition of the knife, we will return it to you with the recommendation it be retired from use. All costs associated with shipment of the product(s) are the responsibility of the customer."


OK so what I think you're saying is that "voids a warranty" and "what's not covered" are not necessarily equivalent. I think you're right in a certain way. If you have a 3rd party repair the knife, the warranty is void, period. I would assume that means that ALL of the warranty is void, in contrast to the list in the third point above. In that point, we're told that the warranty doesn't cover damage as a result of any of a list of causes. But, if you have an issue with the blade, say, your having disassembled and reassembled the knife does not void the warranty on the blade (even if you strip a screw or something). In essence, point 3 points to case-by-case and possibly part-by-part consideration, but point 2 is an unambiguous statement that covers the whole knife, and the whole warranty.

The question I'd have is if I sent a knife to a sharpening service and they do something unfortunate, does that fall under 3rd-party repair (thereby voiding ALL of the warranty) or "improper sharpening" (leaving other parts subject to warranty repair)? Or is "improper sharpening" limited to the owner only?

I think we're on the same page.
As for the question, I don't consider sharpening a repair, it's necessary maintenance and care, regardless of who does it.

Ideally that would be the case, and if the owner damages it through sharpening it's clearly under the 3rd point. But Spyderco may consider a 3rd-party sharpening to void the warranty just because it's a 3rd party, even if it's not really a "repair", per se.

Ok, I'll play.

According to their text, they "unconditionally" void a warranty if the knife gets sharpened by anyone other than them, since "sharpening" is listed under REPAIR INFORMATION, and "•Repairs to your knife performed by any source other than Spyderco Inc. unconditionally voids the knife’s warranty."

So now what? :D

[anagarika]

Notmal sharpening shouldn't void the warranty, that's the reason they sell sharpmaker.

A grinder that doesn't know better can eat up a blade fast resulting in a stubble, a nightmare for anyone, or power sharpening ruining the HT. This is what Spyderco will not cover. I think what it means regarding sharpening is that if you screwed sharpening it, warranty doesn't cover but they will fix for a fee. If HT is ruined then it's user / 3rd party responsibility, not Spyderco.

I don't think if you send in a knife reprofiled by Josh (REK over BF) that has lock problem not cause by Josh work, they will consider it voided.

[Midwest Diesel Tech]

Good points Indeed. That all makes sense now. I guess what I read was out dated. Thanks for taking the time to clear it up.

[FCM415]

Glad it got cleared up.

My days (years) of explaining it (correctly I may add :)) are over.