Would you buy an AEB-L Military?

[PayneTrain]

Hey, whadaya know, my memory serves me right for once! Cliff brings up AEB-L a lot, so much so that it's hard to find his actual opinion of it.

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If I were a betting man, I'd think he'd be in favor of it. And since the 52100 sprint was such a hit, this is probably an easy success since it seems to be a given that AEB-L is practically a stainless 52100. I, however, voted no. It's weird, but my Cruwear Military has completely satisfied me for this model. The only thing I can think of that I'd want would be a rust proof nitrogen steel, and I see I'm not alone there. But I'm just one man. I still think this would sell out reasonably fast.

OK, perhaps if you made a really cool handle choice, you could force my hand. Like arctic or navy camo. Both of which would look dashing on some LC200N btw...ahem...

[Nate]

...If spyderco, hear me out, did a full flat to zero grind in a sprint run, then I think it'd perform well. I think this steel would've been awesome for the nilakka as it originally came...

...Unless it's a zero grind (or really a secondary bevel grind at less than 10 dps) and at a hardness high enough to withstand deformation under EDC uses.

Have to agree, that's what I'm interested to see. Near full hardness with a lot of attention paid to the grain size and microstructure, ground very thin at a low angle. I don't expect magic, but it sounds like something I'd like a lot, especially if it turns out the steel cost and grindability can keep the price down (no idea how much that matters though).

Here are some additional options that appear to be in the same class, but I suppose AEB-L might be the best choice in terms of name recognition:



I have a flat ground Enzo Necker 70 in 12c27 that came ground below .01" behind the edge, very nice little blade. I also thought it was interesting that the stainless Terävä Skrama uses 12c27, but I only have the 80CrV2 version.

[vivi]

I would buy one. I'm more interested in a "Salt" military using lc200n but AEB-L at a high hardness would have my attention.

[Doc Dan]

What does AEB-L have that these other steels in the chart do not possess? I do not see where it offers any advantage.

[SpeedHoles]

I have a very small fixed blade in AEB-L. I couldn't tell you the heat treat nor hrc. Can't say I've done any real analytical testing on it or anything, so my opinion might not be of much use. It does alright, but nothing I'd say making me desire it specifically in any other of my knives.

I think it was commonly used in surgical razors?

[yablanowitz]

What does AEB-L have that these other steels in the chart do not possess? I do not see where it offers any advantage.

In this platform I don't think it offers any advantage over other available steels, and with the standard grind of the Military, I suspect it would be greatly inferior. I'd still buy it just because it's a Military in a different steel.

[Ankerson]

Not this again, Staying out of the conversation only posting to say no, no way I would buy any knife in AEB-L, I don't care who makes it.

There are just way too many better steels for knife blades out there.

[Steel_Drake]

In news that will surprise absolutely no-one, if Spyderco makes a Military in AEB-L at ~62+ HRC I would buy it in a heartbeat, even though I strongly prefer the PM2 to the Military.

AEB-L at high hardness should provide similar performance in virtually all respects barring corrosion resistance to 52100, or to LC200n at similar hardness for that matter. For those, like me, who thin out the primary grinds on their knives and prefer to run fairly low edge bevel angles and fairly high grit apex finishes these types of steels are ideal.

I am well aware that I'm in the minority, but wear resistance and edge retention slicing soft abrasive materials to low sharpness aren't nearly as important to me as they appear to be to many others. I keep the microbevels on my EDC knives touched up frequently and as a result, for me, the ability of a steel to resist microscopic apex chipping or rolling that mean I have to sharpen instead of touching up that is my primary concern.

That being said, the Military is perhaps not the most appropriate platform for a steel like this. A model that uses thinner blade stock and can be produced with a MUCH thinner blade geometry (more like the thickness behind the edge of the Spydiechef, but ideally with much more of a distal taper) would probably be a more suitable choice.

[bh49]

I have no interest on Military in AEB-L, but certainly will be interested in Caly in AEB-L steel.

[Nate]

What does AEB-L have that these other steels in the chart do not possess? I do not see where it offers any advantage.

I guess there is probably some reason all those alloys exist and differences for industry, but I don't know the answer.

My point was that they'd all probably be more or less equivalent in terms of being suitable to produce the desired set of properties being discussed (i.e., I don't care if it's AEB-L exactly), especially considering the huge importance of the way the blades are ground and heat treated.

On a related note, it's sort of baffling to me that there isn't more interest by knife knuts in seeing what razor blade steels can do when you really nail them. Great all arounder?; tough, strong, easy to grind, easy to take to high sharpness/polish, good edge holding (even if not extreme) good corrosion resistance, inexpensive... and I'm into thiiiin :D

But I get it, different strokes and all that, and there really are a lot of other options. People want and need different things. Like I said before though, I don't expect magic, I'm just curious about it. Even though I already have blades in these steels, I'm not sure that any of them are dialed in the way I expect Spyderco could if they pursue it.

[Bodog]

What does AEB-L have that these other steels in the chart do not possess? I do not see where it offers any advantage.

I guess there is probably some reason all those alloys exist and differences for industry, but I don't know the answer.

My point was that they'd all probably be more or less equivalent in terms of being suitable to produce the desired set of properties being discussed (i.e., I don't care if it's AEB-L exactly), especially considering the huge importance of the way the blades are ground and heat treated.

On a related note, it's sort of baffling to me that there isn't more interest by knife knuts in seeing what razor blade steels can do when you really nail them. Great all arounder?; tough, strong, easy to grind, easy to take to high sharpness/polish, good edge holding (even if not extreme) good corrosion resistance, inexpensive... and I'm into thiiiin :D

But I get it, different strokes and all that, and there really are a lot of other options. People want and need different things. Like I said before though, I don't expect magic, I'm just curious about it. Even though I already have blades in these steels, I'm not sure that any of them are dialed in the way I expect Spyderco could if they pursue it.

Right now I'm doing some basic testing of a knife with 10V at 68 rc by BCMW. It's super thin. Thinnest knife I've used for any ordinary tasks. It rivals some fillet knives. Has just enough backbone to resist flexing doing normal cutting. I haven't measured the behind the edge thickness but I'm sure it's under .008". I'll measure tonight just to make sure. Anyway, it cuts like a freaking demon at 15 dps and holds its edge whittling ebony, cutting random household crap, etc. There's absolutely no way cheap steel meant for disposable razors can match this unless you come up with arbitrary parameters that are pretty useless for real world knives, scandi or zero grinds excepted. At least whatever steels I've used that are similar in composition to AEBL.

I also need to throw a handle on a 15V blade re-heat treated to 70 rc by BCMW. Can't wait to see how that one turned out. Initial tests by Luong look really, really promising.

The point being some of the most carbide packed steels at really, really high hardnesses can absolutely outperform steel meant to be thrown away every couple of shaves.

Unless the blade fits into the mold that requires what AEBL offers. And that's really acute (some would say ridiculous and unnecessary) bevel angles.

[Evil D]

Not this again, Staying out of the conversation only posting to say no, no way I would buy any knife in AEB-L, I don't care who makes it.

There are just way too many better steels for knife blades out there.

C'mon man tell us how you really feel lol

[RadioactiveSpyder]

Well, I'm certainly glad to have several knives with it. Sold my 52100 Millie in about a week, the same will not happen if one in AEB-L is offered. I would have an aneurysm though if Sal took Roman's idea and did a Caly 3.5 in it! :D

[Nate]

...

Lol! :confused: Ever heard of a straight razor?

I don't really have much else to add to what I already said. I'm no expert, just curious. Maybe at least if Spyderco does one we can all see for ourselves and put the topic to rest?

Luong is definitely doing some very interesting work though. I first heard about him through Cliff, (what else is new, :)) when he shared some of his videos and opened up a discussion about his methods, testing, and results early on. I remember there was the was a good deal of skepticism initially, good to see him continue to do well and get some recognition.

[yablanowitz]

On a related note, it's sort of baffling to me that there isn't more interest by knife knuts in seeing what razor blade steels can do when you really nail them. Great all arounder?; tough, strong, easy to grind, easy to take to high sharpness/polish, good edge holding (even if not extreme) good corrosion resistance, inexpensive... and I'm into thiiiin :D
.

It doesn't really baffle me. Razors/razor blades are specialized tools for cutting hairs. If all I wanted to do was shave arm hairs to impress people, I'd be really interested in the steels developed for those applications. Since my everyday uses include many things more demanding than that, my enthusiasm is somewhat limited. That said, I'd like to see a Sprint Run Nilakka with the original zero grind in AEB-L or 13C26 just to see if it works better than S30V did. Not much chance of that, though.

[NoFair]

I'd much prefer LC200N in a Millie. AEB-L would be very nice in a kitchen knife or Caly 3.5 (if ground very thin)

[PayneTrain]

Man, since when do we care about whether or not a steel is made for knives or not?! That's the fun of Spyderco! Sal can make a knife out of just about anything! And this one has been used for knives in several instances, including big names like Kershaw. Well, 13C26 was at least. I say go for it. I don't necessarily want one, but judging how well received the 52100 was, I think people will like this one.

[Nate]

Yeah, exactly, and the Sandviks especially are already pretty well regarded as cutlery steels. Not to mention the supposed toughness at thin cross sections and an actue angles is a large part of why I'm interested.

Hopefully Sal/Spyderco can speak with Verhoeven and/or Landes directly to get their take directly on the research and potential performance.

[Bodog]

Man, since when do we care about whether or not a steel is made for knives or not?! That's the fun of Spyderco! Sal can make a knife out of just about anything! And this one has been used for knives in several instances, including big names like Kershaw. Well, 13C26 was at least. I say go for it. I don't necessarily want one, but judging how well received the 52100 was, I think people will like this one.

How many knife afis wanting crazy performance from their knives are going with BD1? That's the steel Spyderco uses in their budget lines along with 8Cr13Mov. AEBL isn't that different from either one. If you want to know how AEBL will perform buy a byrd knife in either one of the other steels and use it however you want. It won't be enough of a difference to brag about. You'll find quickly enough if that class of steel works for you. Most people if truly honest and uninfluenced would find 8Cr13Mov works better with regular knife designs.

So basically people are asking sal to make a military sprint with their Byrd line steels. Cool if that's what you're looking for. Maybe not a big market but still there. I guess it may be cool to see a sprint military selling for $60. Once it hit the streets I don't believe it'd be a really in demand collectable if that's a goal for someone buying it but who knows. It may turn out that the cheapest military ever seen could demand interest down the road.

[vivi]

12C27 resists corrosion better than 8Cr13MoV in my experience.