How Stainless is S110V?

[Surfingringo]

Surfingringo, I have the same issue with S110V not getting really sharp. Have you found a way around it? I use Congress Moldmaster stones and a Sharpmaker. It will get sharp, but with the same procedure, other knives will get noticeably sharper. I've put off extensive comparison with other knives/steels until I can get around this issue.

I reprofiled an m4 pm2 and an s110v pm2 yesterday. I apexed both at 30 degrees then added a 40 degree microbevel using 1200 grit dmt diafolds attached to the sharpmaker. Both knives are obviously quite sharp but there is a notable difference. Touch the m4 to the hair on your head and it will instantly bite and "lock in" on contact. The s110v on the other hand will grab the hair but not as firmly as the m4. It doesn't matter if I make a dozen passes or 200 on the microbevel. It doesn't matter if I lubricate the stones or not. It doesn't matter whether I make heavier strokes or feather light. The s110v just won't get to quite the same level (at any given grit) as certain other steels. I have spent hours trying to make this steel respond to sharpening like easier to sharpen steels but it does not.

Now, does that mean I can't sharpen it? No. Does it mean it won't get sharp? No. It simply means that it doesn't sharpen the same as something like hap40. It is a fairly trivial matter to take s110v to hair whittling sharp. The difference between doing that with s110v and hap40 though is that s110v requires a higher level of refinement to achieve that level of performance. I can microbevel hap40 on the medium sharpmaker stones and have it whittling free hanging hair. To get s110v to that level I have to take it through the fines and usually the ultra fines.

I like s110v just fine (I like it in some types of knives better than in others) and I don't really think it is "hard to sharpen". That said, it simply does not sharpen the same as some other steels with different hardness and compositions...and we shouldn't really expect it to. I mean, if all steels don't dull the same then it would be unrealistic to think they would all sharpen the same.

--For the record, that s110v paramilitary that I reprofiled was my buddy's. He had used it to cut open dozens and dozens of sandbags one day at work. :eek: The edge was an absolute wreck. I reprofiled the knife with the sharpmaker and diamond rods. The reprofile took 12-15 minutes tops. Had it super sharp after anther 60 seconds of micro beveling at 1200. I mention all that to reiterate my point that s110v isn't really any harder to sharpen than other steels with the right abrasives. It's just very difficult to get quite as much "pop" out of it at any given grit.

[tangent]

I'm curious as to how H1 suffers in edge holding cutting limes and being subject to corrosive environments? I used H1 pretty hard for a few months and had no issues.

I never said that I would ONLY be cutting limes...I was mentioning that it would be exposed to citrus as well as salt and chlorine water. Plain edge H1 is EXTREMELY tough but does not hold an edge for very long compared to even VG-10, much less S35VN or S110V.

So...it sounds like S110V is very corrosion resistant...thanks for the replies.

[Blerv]

Have you used SE much for those jobs? It's a bit of an odd duck but I've grown to enjoy what it can do.

The chlorine is what makes me a bit hesitant. Extreme levels of chlorine can even corrode H1 so not sure what it would do to 110v or other "normal" high carbon blades. In general corrosion resistance aka "stainless" has to do with salt rather than acids and bases.

[Ankerson]

I have 5 knives in S110V and have never had any issues with rust or even staining of any type.

As far as sharpening goes it's not really hard to sharpen and will take a nice edge. Personally I favor coarse edges, but can get them very sharp because of the way I sharpen and sharpen with.

I have posted this before, the biggest thing with S110V is not to over think it, focus on getting a clean apex, raise a burr and remove the burr.

I only use my Edge Pro for reprofling and setting the bevels, the 1st sharpening etc. Touch ups are usually done on either ceramic rods or a strop depending.

I can usually get it sharp enough that it will grab my educated thumb hard, S110V bites hard when it's sharp, always loved the edge that S110V takes. :D

[Ankerson]

Have you used SE much for those jobs? It's a bit of an odd duck but I've grown to enjoy what it can do.

The chlorine is what makes me a bit hesitant. Extreme levels of chlorine can even corrode H1 so not sure what it would do to 110v or other "normal" high carbon blades. In general corrosion resistance aka "stainless" has to do with salt rather than acids and bases.

S110V is also used as a mold steel in the plastics industry, it's VERY stainless and it has to be due to the very corrosive environment.

[Blerv]

Have you used SE much for those jobs? It's a bit of an odd duck but I've grown to enjoy what it can do.

The chlorine is what makes me a bit hesitant. Extreme levels of chlorine can even corrode H1 so not sure what it would do to 110v or other "normal" high carbon blades. In general corrosion resistance aka "stainless" has to do with salt rather than acids and bases.

S110V is also used as a mold steel in the plastics industry, it's VERY stainless and it has to be due to the very corrosive environment.

Ah interesting, thanks :).

That was less a knock against 110v and more a disclaimer that chlorine is horrible on blades. Citrus too. I have just as much faith in 110v as any other in its class. Just wanna put a reminder that these aren't forged in the heart of a dying star .

[tangent]

Have you used SE much for those jobs? It's a bit of an odd duck but I've grown to enjoy what it can do.

The chlorine is what makes me a bit hesitant. Extreme levels of chlorine can even corrode H1 so not sure what it would do to 110v or other "normal" high carbon blades. In general corrosion resistance aka "stainless" has to do with salt rather than acids and bases.

Yes...I absolutely love serrated H1...and my Pac Salts in particular. It's just that from time to time it's nice to have a plain edge and it's really nice to have one that doesn't need to be sharpened as often as plain edge H1.

In terms of chlorine...it would just be me jumping into a pool...and then cutting some limes to have a cold one in the heat of the Southern California summer day. :D

[Surfingringo]

Plain edge lc200n outperforms H1 by a wide margin in edge retention and has proven itself to be every bit as rust proof on my kayak. Looking forward to some more offerings in that steel!

[Blerv]

Have you used SE much for those jobs? It's a bit of an odd duck but I've grown to enjoy what it can do.

The chlorine is what makes me a bit hesitant. Extreme levels of chlorine can even corrode H1 so not sure what it would do to 110v or other "normal" high carbon blades. In general corrosion resistance aka "stainless" has to do with salt rather than acids and bases.

Yes...I absolutely love serrated H1...and my Pac Salts in particular. It's just that from time to time it's nice to have a plain edge and it's really nice to have one that doesn't need to be sharpened as often as plain edge H1.

In terms of chlorine...it would just be me jumping into a pool...and then cutting some limes to have a cold one in the heat of the Southern California summer day. :D

Ah nice. I would just rinse it off and call it a day, shouldn't be a problem :).

[tangent]

Plain edge lc200n outperforms H1 by a wide margin in edge retention and has proven itself to be every bit as rust proof on my kayak. Looking forward to some more offerings in that steel!

Yes...and from what I understand can be Full Flat Ground...which is GREAT!!

[ZrowsN1s]

Hello all, I just got my first S110V knife a PM2, (very nice knife) for all the qualities you mention. Is sharpening that difficult? I set the bevel on a ZDP Manbug with a Lansky and med and fine diamonds recently and finished with Arkansas and it wasn't difficult. What I'd like to ask is, how does it sharpen compared to ZDP?

I want to order a new S110V Military but I am uncertain because of the mixed views of this steel. I like that it is so corrosion resistant and has good edge holding, but I am worried about the sharpening. I have read it is a real bear to sharpen and does not take a super sharp edge very well.

S110v in my personal experience keeps a "working edge" for a very long time without even stropping. It does not keep a razor sharp edge like zdp 189. I would put zdp and s110v at about the same difficulty level as far as reprofiling goes, Zdp gets razor sharp easier. Now I believe the solution to this is to just decrease the sharpening angle to say 12 degrees per side instead of 15 degrees per side and it should compensate for any loss in initial sharpness. In other words if you want your S110v blade to be as shave ready as your Zdp blade that has a 15 deg. per side edge, you just need to sharpen the s110v at 12 degrees per side. s110v 12dps = zdp-189 15dps. Thats my experience anyways. Although in exchange you are getting a **** near rust proof blade with very high "working" edge retention. I've even heard it suggested that s110v is better suited to sharpening at a coarse 600grit, as the rough saw tooth edge exposes more carbides in the steel that otherwise get polished off at finer grits, and the high edge retention lets it keep this rough edge a very long time. Thats what i have heard anyways.

Thanks ZrowsN1s

I took the ZPD below 30deg. My Sharpmaker arrived with the PM2 so I'll put a light 30deg micro bevel on it. When the time comes I s'pose I'll do the same with S110V. Thanks again.

Alex

I was listening to Sal explain how to use the sharpmaker and something he said kind of caught my ear and made me re-evaluate the advice i gave you. I said to compensate for the S110V being harder to get razor sharp, that you should lower your angle. I now believe this to be not the best advice. Sal pointed out that a 30 degree inclusive edge (15 degree per side), should be sharp enough to smoothly shave hair, and that more extreme angles were unnessasary and could cause instability that decreases edge retention. I realized that the reason I couldn't shave with my s110v was simple, I hadn't removed enough steel from the edge. I Re-sharpened my s110v at 15 degrees per side and made sure I was forming a burr across the entire length of the blade before moving in to the next finer grit. The result was a s110v 30degree inclusive edge that can split hairs. So if it's not sharp at 30degrees inclusive, you just need to remove more steel and make sure you are really forming a burr, and with the s110v you need diamond or equivilant stones to get the job done. Sorry if I steered you wrong with my other advice, happy sharpening! (i finished with an extra fine dimond stone and stroped with green jewlers polish)

[Bloke]

G'day ZrowsN1s,

I'm re-evaluating how I sharpen all together. In a nutshell I've basically followed the factory egde angle and decrease it slightly, but never used a micro bevel and I think I've suffered for it. After reading on the forum and sound advice from Surfingringo, I'm changing my ways! I don't have too much trouble getting a factory sharp edge or better on knives, but I certainly don't have the skill or know how I s'pose to whittle hair or anything like that. :)

[The Deacon]

Am I the only one who would wish Spyderco would publish both Q Fog and CATRA test results for the various steels they use?

[ZrowsN1s]

G'day ZrowsN1s,

I'm re-evaluating how I sharpen all together. In a nutshell I've basically followed the factory egde angle and decrease it slightly, but never used a micro bevel and I think I've suffered for it. After reading on the forum and sound advice from Surfingringo, I'm changing my ways! I don't have too much trouble getting a factory sharp edge or better on knives, but I certainly don't have the skill or know how I s'pose to whittle hair or anything like that. :)

This forum is a great resource, I've learned all sorts of great tips from people here.

[Bloke]

G'day ZrowsN1s,

I'm re-evaluating how I sharpen all together. In a nutshell I've basically followed the factory egde angle and decrease it slightly, but never used a micro bevel and I think I've suffered for it. After reading on the forum and sound advice from Surfingringo, I'm changing my ways! I don't have too much trouble getting a factory sharp edge or better on knives, but I certainly don't have the skill or know how I s'pose to whittle hair or anything like that. :)

This forum is a great resource, I've learned all sorts of great tips from people here.

The collective knowledge here is quite staggering! I've learned more about modern alloys and sharpening in my short time here than I have in the last decade and my longstanding passion for cutting tools has been rekindled.

[Bloke]

The factory edge on this (second) PM2 in S110V steel wasn't to my liking (again not truly sharp) so i used it as practice material.
The new and ever so slightly convex edge was taken through 15, 6, 3, and finally 1 micron diamond compound on dedicated Paper Wheels.
It will turn an average chest hair into a fuzz stick while holding it at the root and whittling towards the point of the hair.
Edge angle is +/- 30 degrees inclusive.






With the right abrasives S110V will get really sharp.

Love your work!

Do you freehand on the wheels?

[kwakster]

Yes, it's all freehand work on the Paper Wheels.
Working with the Wheels isn't that difficult, most people i know of master the basics quite fast.

[ZrowsN1s]

Now that I can put a good edge on it at will, I've been carrying my s110v pm2 everywhere. I love my hap40 and my cpm m4 blades, but it's nice to have something that can cut limes without forming an instant patina.

[Hayes0728]

I don’t know why everyone thinks S110v is so hard to sharpen. I am no expert at sharpening and I have no problem getting both my Manix 2 LW and Native 5 lightweight in S110v razor sharp...maybe it’s because I never let them get super dull. The whole reason why I looked up this forum is bc I watched a review of someone who said it wasn’t very corrosion resistant. I have had no problem with corrosion but it’s good to get reassurance from y’all.