A change in tone

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Donut
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Re: A change in tone

#61

Post by Donut »

MacLaren wrote:
Ankerson wrote:I like the cat videos personally, they can be really funny. :D

Those and the dog videos like the ones were the cat steals the dogs bed. ROFL :D

Life is serious enough I think, I come here to try and enjoy myself and talk about Spyderco products with fellow people who also like them.
I wish there were a "like" button. I feel the same way Jim.
I like this post, but I also wish there was a dislike button. Maybe some people would get an idea. You might need an anonymous dislike button, though.

I wouldn't mind using a dislike button toward people I like if they say something I don't agree with.


On the topic in general, I am from the school that thinks you need bad threads to see how good the rest of them really are. Otherwise you're just left with "meh" threads.
-Brian
A distinguished lurker.
Waiting on a Squeak and Pingo with a Split Spring!
Cliff Stamp
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Re: A change in tone

#62

Post by Cliff Stamp »

Blerv wrote:
Technically it's how certain people deal with people who they feel hold positions they deem irrational.
Blerv, do you actually think that someone responding with a personal attack is rational discourse? If I insulted you right now because you opposed my position does that mean it is your fault and that you should not have argued against my position? Instead of dealing with your assertion should I start talking about you and how unreasonable you are because you insist on your position instead of accepting mine? Can you not see how you are not even acting consistent with your own argument which is incoherent?

Again, how come in the above example no one would object to someone correcting that O1 isn't a stainless steel - you would not, so home come you don't. If the person who made that assertion got defensive and complained that people corrected him and the forum was hostile would you advise those people to not correct him? Why not? It is because you believe that he is actually wrong. Your argument then reduces to the fact you don't have a problem with a correction when you accept it is a correction, but if you don't feel that it is a valid correction then it should not be made - even though you don't actually have to justify your assertion, it just is self-existent because it is a position you hold. That isn't a coherent position and it certainly doesn't provide a basis for rational discourse.
spydie777
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Re: A change in tone

#63

Post by spydie777 »

What's this? I thought I was on the Spyderco forum, but clearly I have been rerouted to some sort of psychology forum. This is all too intelligent for me. I just like shiny, sharp things with holes in them.

On a serious note, this thread is on a downward spiral. Just like the threads it referenced.
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Stuart Ackerman
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Re: A change in tone

#64

Post by Stuart Ackerman »

Think twice, post once...I am trying this motto out...

Hard work, but this is just the 'Net...real life is way more fun... :)
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Blerv
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Re: A change in tone

#65

Post by Blerv »

Cliff Stamp wrote:
Blerv wrote:
Technically it's how certain people deal with people who they feel hold positions they deem irrational.
Blerv, do you actually think that someone responding with a personal attack is rational discourse? If I insulted you right now because you opposed my position does that mean it is your fault and that you should not have argued against my position? Instead of dealing with your assertion should I start talking about you and how unreasonable you are because you insist on your position instead of accepting mine? Can you not see how you are not even acting consistent with your own argument which is incoherent?

Again, how come in the above example no one would object to someone correcting that O1 isn't a stainless steel - you would not, so home come you don't. If the person who made that assertion got defensive and complained that people corrected him and the forum was hostile would you advise those people to not correct him? Why not? It is because you believe that he is actually wrong. Your argument then reduces to the fact you don't have a problem with a correction when you accept it is a correction, but if you don't feel that it is a valid correction then it should not be made - even though you don't actually have to justify your assertion, it just is self-existent because it is a position you hold. That isn't a coherent position and it certainly doesn't provide a basis for rational discourse.
Sorry Cliff, I must have lost you on the metaphor, or anecdote. :o

No, personal attacks are never a good thing. I didn't intend to attack you and honestly just now lost track if this is a theoretical example or an actual event that occured.

To answer your question, I think. If someone attacked me verbally I would probably respond with something short like, "Wow...I guess we shouldn't discuss this any further. I'm going to bow-out out of respect to the community. Sorry we couldn't get to a point of agreement." Similar to how you would treat a rude person in a tuxedo at a fancy party with crab on tiny crackers. Engaging in fistecuffs is rarely encouraged and these days there is a shortage of old-timey dueling pistols.

I'm sure in the past I've just been a royal A$$. As mentioned previously...it's a work in process.

spydie777 wrote:What's this? I thought I was on the Spyderco forum, but clearly I have been rerouted to some sort of psychology forum. This is all too intelligent for me. I just like shiny, sharp things with holes in them.

On a serious note, this thread is on a downward spiral. Just like the threads it referenced.
Sometimes difficult conversations need to happen. Other times they don't. I'm not sure if this was needed but it was something that was weighing on my heart. An exit speech wrapped with an inquiry.

I've discussed, answered questions, wished Happy Birthday, and shared pics of knives about 10,000 times. Consider this my ice cream while watching Days of Our Lives moment. :D
Last edited by Blerv on Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Blerv
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Re: A change in tone

#66

Post by Blerv »

weird quoting/editing problem. Please delete.
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Re: A change in tone

#67

Post by Cliff Stamp »

Blerv wrote: I didn't intend to attack you and honestly just now lost track if this is a theoretical example or an actual event that occured.
To clarify, I didn't mean to imply you did, in general I don't tend to deal in rumor and innuendo, if I wanted to personally insult you for some reason, I would at least do it to you personally (i.e. in your physical presence). But I rarely do because it is pointless and it is as degrading to me at least as much (possibly more) than the person who is being insulted. I don't even know you so it would be insensible to insult you as I have no idea what kind of life you have lived. I am ignorant of any basis for which to criticize your character if for some reason I had a desire to do so which I don't.

My point was that you asserted it was simply my opinion they were irrational, it wasn't an actual fact. This isn't true, and you know I could easily provide examples of people personally attacking someone instead of dealing with the justification for the argument. This is an irrational response and people don't get irrational when someone asks for justification on what they know, they get irrational when someone asks for justification on things they assert without knowing.

Take a look at my recent video where I talked about slurries. A number of people corrected an argument I made where I intended to make one point but ended up making a generalization which isn't valid. How come I didn't start insulting them? How come it didn't generate a conflict. How come none of what you are complaining about here happened? It is because all parties wanted to know things, not believe them without justification. None of the parties care if they are right, only are curious to know what is actually right - hence rational discourse.
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Re: A change in tone

#68

Post by bearfacedkiller »

spydie777 wrote:What's this? I thought I was on the Spyderco forum, but clearly I have been rerouted to some sort of psychology forum. This is all too intelligent for me. I just like shiny, sharp things with holes in them.

On a serious note, this thread is on a downward spiral. Just like the threads it referenced.
I disagree, we are just getting down to brass tacks. You can't just let things fester.

It isn't too intelligent, it just sounds too intelligent. You cannot allow yourself to be overwhelmed by lengthy diatribes. It's a tactic that gets old.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
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FCM415
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Re: A change in tone

#69

Post by FCM415 »

Cliff Stamp wrote:
Blerv wrote: I didn't intend to attack you and honestly just now lost track if this is a theoretical example or an actual event that occured.

Take a look at my recent video where I talked about slurries. A number of people corrected an argument I made where I intended to make one point but ended up making a generalization which isn't valid. How come I didn't start insulting them? How come it didn't generate a conflict. How come none of what you are complaining about here happened? It is because all parties wanted to know things, not believe them without justification. None of the parties care if they are right, only are curious to know what is actually right - hence rational discourse.
Maybe, people who view and participate on your Youtube channel under your name do so because because they have an interest in YOU and your lessons.

Same thing in your personal forum message board. They are there and behave to your standards at least partly because they have an affinity towards you and is stewarded by you.

Non Cliff Stamp message boards do not have those same predispositions. People I'm guessing, log on to non Cliff Stamp boards for non Cliff Stamp reasons.
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Re: A change in tone

#70

Post by bearfacedkiller »

Blerv, I wouldn't let anybody run you off. This is a great forum and a great community of which you are a valued member.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?
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Blerv
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Re: A change in tone

#71

Post by Blerv »

bearfacedkiller wrote:Blerv, I wouldn't let anybody run you off. This is a great forum and a great community of which you are a valued member.
Thanks Bear :). I'll prob just cut my posts down to a few a week. Like normal people. :p
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Re: A change in tone

#72

Post by Cliff Stamp »

FCM415 wrote:
Maybe, people who view and participate on your Youtube channel under your name do so because because they have an interest in YOU ....
Maybe they are aliens ....

Maybe we are in the matrix ...

Maybe Sal is Jerry Busse ...

Maybe I own Benchmade and this is part of a conspiracy ....

--

See how easy it is to speculate and how useless it is to make assertions without justification.
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Re: A change in tone

#73

Post by Lost »

I see this continuously going nowhere...
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Re: A change in tone

#74

Post by ChrisinHove »

Is anyone else losing the will to live....?

Here's my ha'penny worth.

There comes a point when you just have to agree to disagree. We should all consider, simply out of courtesy, whether other forum members might prefer if that were sooner rather than later.
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FCM415
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Re: A change in tone

#75

Post by FCM415 »

I used the words "maybe" and "I'm guessing" as a way to put things gently...
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Re: A change in tone

#76

Post by Cliff Stamp »

FCM415 wrote:I used the words "maybe" and "I'm guessing" as a way to put things gently...
As a sincere question, do you actually think that it is reasonable that the people who engage in critical discourse on the channel/forum do so not because of the content but because they all have a personal infatuation with me? That is really the argument that you think is rational? This includes makers like Dan Keffeler, you really think those guys have some kind of personal fantasy about me and that is why we dialog about knives and steel and metallurgy ? They don't actually care what I have to say, they just like to see messages "From Cliff Stamp" in their inbox . That is your argument - you really believe that is true? That is more reasonable to you than the fact that they are interested in knives/steels and that all parties actually learn through the exchanges?
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Re: A change in tone

#77

Post by FCM415 »

It doesn't matter what anyone here believes if it is not in line with you.
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Re: A change in tone

#78

Post by GoldenSpydie »

Cliff Stamp wrote:Maybe they are aliens ....

Maybe we are in the matrix ...

Maybe Sal is Jerry Busse ...

Maybe I own Benchmade and this is part of a conspiracy ....
So we went from cute cat videos to fighting and absolute insanity. Yay.

Image
spydie777
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Re: A change in tone

#79

Post by spydie777 »

Double digit posts!! Yeah baby!! It is an impressive milestone, I know. It only took me 2 1/2 years to get here, probably four or five if you count all the time that I sat on the sidelines reading without registering on the forum. This thread was worth me coming out of seclusion, figuring out what the **** my userid was (spydie777-really was I that unoriginal just a few years ago, I am so much cooler now), and getting my password reset.

Ps Sorry I hijacked your thread for this gratuitous pat on my own back. Back to it gentleman.
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Re: A change in tone

#80

Post by Cliff Stamp »

FCM415 wrote:It doesn't matter what anyone here believes ...
It matters to me, I am actually curious if you really believe all of those people are so infatuated with me that is why they participate. It isn't because we learn, they just have some kind of fan-crush and that is why they watch, comment, interact. You really believe the reason that I get papers from Roman Landes is so he can tell himself he is friends with Cliff Stamp, that is what you believe?
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