More CPM 3v coming?

[Cliff Stamp]

And thanks for replying to my questions...but I still don' t understand your usage of "actual research."

If I say evolution is a theory then what does it mean to you, likely very different than what it means to Wendy Williams. If you were to ask her for her theory of diversity of life then she will say ID. My response to that would be - no I mean an actual theory not just a vague idea that can't be verified or falsified through observation/rational reduction, i.e., theory in the sense of the word in the context of the discussion. That is what I meant, research in the context of the sense of talking about steel properties.

[Cliff Stamp]

I think that's a good point for the average person, but knife enthusiasts have to have something to talk about.

Sure, hence I suggested Vanadis 4E .

I studied fracture and fatigue in school and my contention is that the ability of a blade to resist breaking under near-static loading is a combination of its material strength and its toughness. I realize that Charpy toughness is measured with impact tests but we still use those results to predict behavior of structures under near-static loading. .

In practical use we use whatever we have and unfortunately we rarely have all of the data. If all you have is charpy data and for example the Young's modulus and the modulous is very high but the charpy data is extremely low then you would wonder if the material would snap very easily because of the likely very low fracture toughness. However what you are really looking for is a simple 3-point bend fracture test which would measure it exactly.

My main point here isn't to stop discussion of steels, just that in any discussion, if you are interested in performance then you start by asking the question as to how are the current steels failing? Then you determine what properties make them fail and then you can look at what steels are upgrades in the sense they make the current knives much more resistant to failing. Failing being not just limited to complete failure but also maintenance, i.e., sharpening, rust removal, etc. .

So if you have a D2 folder and it is great but it just chips too easily then 3V might be an interesting choice. However if DV is rusting too fast then it isn't, similar if D2 is too hard to grind/sharpen then it isn't. If the D2 is actually just wearing down smooth too fast than 3V might not be an upgrade but 10V might be an option for that. If D2 is wearing too smooth and is rusting then S90V / S110V. If it is chipping and rusting and wearing too smooth then you have a really interesting question.

[paladin]

And thanks for replying to my questions...but I still don' t understand your usage of "actual research."

If I say evolution is a theory then what does it mean to you, likely very different than what it means to Wendy Williams. If you were to ask her for her theory of diversity of life then she will say ID. My response to that would be - no I mean an actual theory not just a vague idea that can't be verified or falsified through observation/rational reduction, i.e., theory in the sense of the word in the context of the discussion. That is what I meant, research in the context of the sense of talking about steel properties.

your position is understood, now....thanks

still see no use for the qualifier "actual"...

research should be understood to be research to all the forumites here...

didn't know who Wendy Williams was until I googled it...

seems to be a poor man's Oprah to me, pretty sure that demographic isn't interested in steel research here...after my internet research I stand by the assertation that "actual research" is an unnecessary redundancy, especially in this forum :confused:

[Cliff Stamp]

It would have made more sense if I got her name correct, I meant Wendy Wright .

[paladin]

It would have made more sense if I got her name correct, I meant Wendy Wright .

...I am LMMFAO right now :p

cause I just gooogled that s**t....

Stamp that is the most EPIC citation fail you could have made in an effort to prove your point...

Could you have referenced any two more diametrically opposed individuals...I think not!

thanks for making my night hahahehhehe :)

[Cliff Stamp]

Don't diss Williams, where else can you find out that Demi Moore and her daughter Rumer are reportedly crushing on the same guy.

I am pretty sure if Dawkins interviewed her on Evolution it would likely be just as entertaining as Wright. I am just waiting for him to talk to NephilimFree.

[VashHash]

So are we any closer to that Hossom in 3V? i'll keep making noise i swear

[yowzer]

So are we any closer to that Hossom in 3V? i'll keep making noise i swear

I cut down a tree with my Forester. A big chunk of N690Co is pretty tough already. But if using 3V can mean a thinner blade with a better geometry for actual cutting that can still take a beating... bring it! (After a 3V Serrata and a fixed blade version of the Tuff and and and... bah, I should just buy some Bark River knives. They use a lot of 3V these days.)

[VashHash]

Same blade stock. Just white micarta and maybe a nice welted leather sheath.

[BrutallyEffective]

"Unnecessary redundancy"

Whatdidyoumeanbythat? J/k.

Cliff, it seems like a barrier to a lot of forumites' understanding is the muddled use of terms like strength and toughness, these are simultaneously technical (how you use them) and lay terms (used randomly). People are going to continue to use the wrong ones, take you the wrong way and get their backs up in these discussions.

The obvious and probably only solution to this confusion I think is the adoption of alternative words for impact toughness and fracture resistance strength: "bangbangbreakiness" and "Strongliness". Actually, I'm not willing to compromise at all on these terms, I demand their adoption by all parties, in as passive aggressive way as possible, of course.

A good discussion of what people do with their knives (Spyderco and others) and how much of which property they desire in their current and future buys can only be good for all involved, I think, from both product development and selection perspectives. Good thread I reckon.

Personally 3V wouldn't bring anything extra practically speaking to a pocket knifed I wanted, but for curiosity's sake I might go there. Cost in that case would be a strong decider.

[Cliff Stamp]

There actually is a lay word which means what most people talk about - durability. The problem comes when you try to make a decision about finding a better steel for a particular purpose because one failed to meet some standard. In order to do this you need to know what are the properties which caused it to fail and then you can look for steels which have higher statistics in those properties.

Consider for example Bill is practicing with a new grinder and offers you a cup of coffee and asks for your opinion. You taste it, dislike it and say it could be improved. Now what could Bill do, how could he make it better? This is the kind of problem people face in many discussions about steels. It isn't very helpful for Bill to just be told "be more better", consider instead saying something like :

-is it too sweet or not enough
-too much milk or you would prefer cream
-too watery or too strong
-the roast is too light or too dark
-the grind was far too fine and made it muddy

Once you know how the properties of steels are quantified and what they mean, it is a quantum jump forward in selecting steels as it removes a lot of the random selection of the process. Of course if you like the random selection, or it just isn't important to you, well everyone enjoys different things. I enjoy MMA, so does one of my friends who is a practitioner. We watch it in two very different ways and enjoy it in two very different paradigms.