So what's your favorite steel?

[dreadpirate]

VG-10 and CPM-S110V of the steels I have tried. I still would not pass up S30 or S35V

[Zenith]

So many steels I love so I am not going to list everything and difficult to state all time favorites.

Nitrobe-77 is top of my list, followed by RWL-34 and Damasteel, CPM-M4 is also up there.

Best bang for the buck: N690, 14C28N, VG-10.

[yowzer]

Folders: VG-10. Serrated: H1. Fixed: From what I've seen of it so far, I'm really liking CPM-3V.

[Razzle]

Folder....204P. For this beginner, it's so easy to sharpen (SM Tri-angle) to a razor sharp toothy edge.

SE....H1 hands down.

Fixed....VG10 so far. My Streetbeat is easy to bring to a super shiny razor edge.

[Ray Allen]

Howdy,
I gotta say it is noteworthy to me how many favorable comments there have been for VG10.
I had a Superleaf in VG10 that came absolutely screaming sharp out of the box. Got one of my best cuts from it. Just felt like a icy tingle when it happened.

[tvenuto]

VG10 is awesome, great all-around steel. In fact I haven't encountered a bad Spyderco steel, really. I'll take all the stainless you can throw at me.

[razorsharp]

CTS204p an 3V

[yowzer]

Howdy,
I gotta say it is noteworthy to me how many favorable comments there have been for VG10.

It hits a sweet spot, with decent edge holding and being easy to sharpen to a razor edge by people like me without a lot of talent in the sharpening department. I also like how it doesn't seem to chip very easily, unlike my experience with S30V.

There are better steels out there, sure, but VG-10 is a great all rounder.

[bornagainprimative]

From experience vg-10, s35vn are easy enough for me to sharpen up and I like that they are of the stainless veriety

[Cliff Stamp]

For those who like VG-10, how does it compare to ATS-34 and/or 440C ?

[Ray Allen]

For those who like VG-10, how does it compare to ATS-34 and/or 440C ?

Cliff,
One thing I have learned from you, is to appreciate the influence that personal bias plays in trying to answer a question like that. Also the effect that a small sample size plays in that bias. My only experience with ATS-34 was one knife and not good. My only experience with VG10 was very good but again, only one knife. Hence my bias. If I had to guess knowing what I know these days, I bet all three you mentioned are pretty similar in reality, given optimal heat treatments, edge geometry etc.

Dang I like good steel discussions....
Best

[GoldenSpydie]

My favorite steel? Why discriminate against some Spydercos by limiting this thread to steel?

I'm going to say that my favorite blade material is ceramic. We shouldn't let the TTZ probe feel left out!

Sorry. I had to. :p :D

[Cliff Stamp]

....I bet all three you mentioned are pretty similar in reality, given optimal heat treatments, edge geometry etc.

The physical properties would be near identical yes, hence why I was curious how many people have vastly different experienced with them.

[rodloos]

I don't think there is a Spyderco heat-treated steel that I'd be unhappy with. I'll admit I don't have high expectations for the 3Cr in my Bug, but I don't really use that to cut much... :)

There was the Cruwear Mule that missed a heat treat step in the production, but Spyderco corrected that. I enjoy playing with the variety of steels Spyderco uses, and have been happy even with the "lowly" VG-10 and 8Cr13Mov, but I'm not really prone to abuse them. If I do need to really whack on a knife, I'll probably doing it to an ESEE in 1095, or maybe BHK in O1. Or more likely a lowly Machete in 1075, easy enough to clean up the nicks from hitting rocks/fence etc. using a metal file :).

The only ATS-34 blade I have is a Benchmade, which held a nice sharp edge long enough to nearly amputate my thumb when I got it between the blade and the branch I was going after :eek: :) .

[Popsickle]

Stainless 204p

Non stainless CPM-M4

[bearfacedkiller]

I must say that this thread is going well. :) I saw the title and kept my distance. These steel threads can get interesting. :o I am going to say that I am in the "not better, just different" club so I do not have any favorites, just preferred steels for certain applications. Most steels have an application they fit into and have qualities that lend themselves to some use. I also agree with Deacon in that most all of Spyderco's steels can meet my expectations for a pocket knife. I do not partake in marathon cutting sessions just for the sake of it. It's the old "give a kid a hammer and everything looks like a nail" thing that I try to avoid. :)

It is important to note that they will do what they are supposed to if you use them as you are supposed to. Keep to cutting and save the prying and hacking for tools designed for those tasks and your edge will last longer. Make controlled deliberate cuts and your edge will last longer. Play around with edge angles and grit finishes and find one that works for your use and your edge will last longer. Get a blade made by someone who can really dial in the heat treat (Spyderco) and your edge will last longer. My point is that while the steel is a factor it is not the only one.

For my camp knives I'll take some good old 1095 from one of two companies who are well regarded in that area.

I prefer my traditional slip joints in their carbon steel versions because I use them for whittling and like to be able to keep a scary sharp edge on them and the carbon steel versions (usually 1095 or similar) seem to handle the very thin grinds that slip joints usually have and are super easy to touch up.

For an edc folder I am happy with most everything that Spyderco has cranked out. I do agree that for an all around balance of qualities that vg10 is tough to beat and I love it.

In the kitchen I am not too picky and really just favor knives that are as thin as possible, especially at the edge.

With any knife blade geometry and ergonomics can make steel choice totally irrelevent. It could be made from unobtanium but if the blade is ground way too thick and the handle is uncomfortable the knife is a no go for me. My point, there is so much more to a knife than what steel it uses.

In reference to micro chipping and S30v this is something I have not experienced. I have a para2 in s30v and it is my most used Spydie and it is my beater. I buy a lot of Sprints and have just a few regular production knives that are still in production so that satin/camo para2 is my beater Spydies. I have true beaters that aren't Spydies but that Para2 has been borderline abused and it has taken it all in stride. While S30V is a high carbide steel it is really in the middle of the road by today's standards. If it was that chippy how would we have progressed into much higher allow steels like S90v and S110v without them disintegrating during use?

Sorry if I got kind of long winded there. :)

[Cliff Stamp]

[...]

If it was that chippy how would we have progressed into much higher allow steels like S90v and S110v without them disintegrating during use?

What does "that chippy" mean?

Imagine if I told you my cousin could "run fast" and you asked him and he said he didn't "run fast", would that mean what I said was false? The reason why these conversations often spawn apparent conflicts is that the statements made are often so vague they look to be in conflict but are often just describing/stating different things. I could view a 12 s/100m sprint as fast compared to the general population but as he can't make the college track team he considers it slow.

In regards to the argument provided , consider this kind of claim :

"People say that smoking causes cancer, well my uncle smoked his entire life and he doesn't have cancer so all of that is just nonsense."

If you look at the actual journal articles they won't say things like if you smoke one time you drop dead from cancer, they will make the argument that smoking (along with other factors) increases the probability of getting cancer and it is correlated with other factors. In the same way, S30V is a high carbon, high carbide stainless steel, the chip resistance is far lower than a steel such as AEB-L. However having a lower chip resistance does not mean that it always chips in use. What it means to say that a steel has low chip resistance is that :

-the impact energy required to chip it is lower
-the ratio of fracture and tearout to cutting/ploughing is higher in abrasive wear
-the cross section required to prevent chipping/fracture at a given stress/energy is higher

In a given piece of work is it therefore guaranteed that S30V would chip, of course not because the work would have to produce :

-enough stress, impact energy
-high tensile stress to compression strength ratio

and this is also influenced by the edge angle.

If for example you mainly cut soft materials with S30V and/or the edge angle is 15-20 dps, and you define chipping as being large enough that you can see it, well then in those cases it is unlikely that you would see fracture on the edge of S30V. Thus it would be expected in a given set of people using S30v some people would see it chip and others would not. The claim being made is that if the same group of people used a steel such as 12C27 then the amount/extent of chipping would be less.

Now as for why do we have other steels such as S110V? The fact that something is used or is popular isn't an argument that it is even sensible choice. Paul Bos (and others) used to hot temper ATS-34. People argued that it had to be correct because of that kind of authority/popularity argument. But these are logically fallacious, they are not rational arguments. Earnest Mayer noted that the materials data show this produces steel with a lower toughness and corrosion resistance and Landes noted that the materials data show it produces a lower apex stability. In time, the actual evidence convinced people and even those who championed hot tempering changed.

Now as for steels like S110V, yes, they have even lower chip resistance than S30V, these are again just material properties. S125V has even lower chip resistance, 15V even lower still. I have knives in all of these, and Maxamet, 121REX and even solid ceramic which is extremely brittle compared to even brittle steels. But again this doesn't mean that these knives always chip in use, it simply means that they will chip under conditions where tougher steels will not.

[bearfacedkiller]

By "that chippy" I was simply referring to the fact that some people have reported issues and have an apparent adversity to S30V and that it does not seem to be an isolated incident. I assume it to mean that it chips during fairly standard EDC type tasks. However, I do not exactly know because as I stated, I myself have not experienced it. I have also read, so not first hand experience, that this was largely due to heat treat issues earlier in S30V's use and that it has been since worked out. It was a subjective statement and I know that upsets the cosmic balance of your inner scientist but it is what it is. :D :p

Spyderco did have some issues with the zero ground Nillaka in S30V but it was remedied with a slight microbevel. Yes, I have seen your video on this and I even spoke with Sal in person about it. This brings us back to edge geometry being a very large factor. Cliff, you should have more knowledge about this issue than me or anybody I can think of. Don't you EDC a zero ground S30V Para1? Do you experience any chipping?

[PayneTrain]

logically fallacious

Mmmmm...say it again....
:D

Ahem, sorry. As far as steels go, I really haven't met one I don't like. Maybe 440A, which did not do nearly as well for me in corrosion resistance as the internet led me to believe, which is not good since that's about all it has going for it. Everything else has done well for me, from AUS-8 to S110V and everything in between. I guess I'd like to mention 204P, which seems to take a nice fine edge very easily considering how very long it holds it. Also I'm loving the subtlety of the patina that ZDP-189 is forming, which I am working on now with some veggies. Super Blue also ages very gracefully, and is fun to use. Then there's H1, how cool is that stuff?! There's even 5160 which I was using to chip away ice last week with reckless abandon, and really surprised me how little it got damaged.

It's hard to nail down a favorite. They're all special in their own ways. I guess I'll say 204P because it's such a great all around performer, even though it won't turn pretty colors.

[Cliff Stamp]

Maybe 440A, which did not do nearly as well for me in corrosion resistance as the internet led me to believe...

Corrosion resistance is very dependent on the hardening, specifically the soak time/temperature and quenching medium. To get high corrosion resistance you need high temperatures and very fast quenches. Unfortunately since 440A is commonly used on inexpensive knives it gets inexpensive hardening, the results then are often typically poor.