SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Michael and others, how good are serrated edges vs plain edges for survival and bush crafting? These survival people tend to prefer plain edges for ease of field sharpening and batoning through wood.

[Evil D]

Michael and others, how good are serrated edges vs plain edges for survival and bush crafting? These survival people tend to prefer plain edges for ease of field sharpening and batoning through wood.

If you watch any of the Alone series where they're actually surviving and not playing in the woods and pretending to have to build an entire shelter with just a knife, they spare their knife edge for critical uses like skinning game, so the idea of field sharpening isn't as necessary as people assume it will be. I guess the hypothetical in Bushcraft is what if all you had was a knife? If you're lucky enough to have prepared, then there's plenty of options for field sharpening serrations. If it's an actual emergency and you're just stranded in the woods, I would see trying to find a rock edge thin enough to improvise with is your best bet, maybe even try to break one into a clean edge that you can work inside the serrations with.

As much as I love serrations I don't think I'd deliberately choose them for Bushcraft, but if you found yourself truly stranded and truly trying to survive and all you had are serrations, if they're not the super sharp needle pointed kind you can make due and do pretty much anything that plain edge can do, and in many scenarios you'd still benefit from the more aggressive cutting power. I wouldn't pick serrations to clean an animal, but again if you're actually in a real emergency you'll find your way through it. In an ideal situation I'd have both edge types.

Doing this kind of stuff with serrations depends greatly on the geometry of the serrations.

[Wartstein]

Michael and others, how good are serrated edges vs plain edges for survival and bush crafting? These survival people tend to prefer plain edges for ease of field sharpening and batoning through wood.

Hey SEF,

I think "survival" and "bushcraft" are rather different scenarios though with some overlapping.
And both pretty broad terms with a lot of variations what the one or the other might understand by them.

Now, for what I personally mean by "bushcraft" (to be clear: I am not an expert "bushcrafter"):
If I bring a folder I do prefer SE, like on most other folder-scenarios:

- SE cuts deeper, easier and more aggressively into wood, partly (or perhaps even mostly??) due to the very acute chisel grind.
That´s great for whittling, making notches or the like, and super clean cuts are not required at all if one just wants to have a pointy stick or a notch in a branch

- Spydercos SE is great at making very fine feather sticks, which in my experience are easier to ignite than what PE can do (or at least it is easier to make that kind of feather sticks with SE).

- SE can easily take the kind of "batoning" I do with a folder (!) (sometimes, when beating a bit harder on the blade, I unlock it).
Actually most "batoning" I ever do is the (light) kind a folder can take: Just creating kindling out of smaller diameter branches and pieces of wood - so small that imo a knife actually IS the better tool for the job than even a small hatchet.

- SE stays sharp a lot longer than PE in my experience AND SE, unlike PE, will still give me a somewhat capable cutting ("separating") tool if actually already dull

- A possible con of SE: IF sharpening is really necessary, improvised sharpening in the field (the "river rock" kind) most likely is harder than with PE. But this does not come into play with "bushcrafting" imo and certainly not if one just brings for example a piece of a sharpmaker rod. But COULD matter in "survical" senarios, with which I have no practical experience but would figure PE is better there anway tha SE.

[Wartstein]

... In an ideal situation I'd have both edge types.

Actually, if I could only bring a folder (and not a fixed blade) generally and only ONE folder for "bushcrafting", it would be my VG10 thin red line ffg combo edge Endura... Gives me a good amount of both edge types.

SE which I generally prefer in a folder (!) for bushcraft as described above and for having something that reliably will separate matter even after a ton of use

PE for the eaiser improvised sharpening and lets say scraping tasks or the like.

[Albertaboyscott]

Grabbed an endura se vg10 from blades canada for $75 shipped. Looking forward to trying the Sabre grind at work. Should be great. Really digging se this summer

[olywa]

Just wanted to mention how great the CBN Webfoot is for serrated edges. I almost always tweak the edge angle on my SE Spydies and lately I've been using the Webfoot to do most of the initial work, then moving to the Goldenstone and finishing on the Sharpmaker. Freehanding on the Webfoot gets me in the ballpark so much faster now, and that's even with a pretty light touch. There is just so much workable surface on the Webfoot for serrated edges.

Also worth noting that the Webfoot is available at around the $60 mark, while the Goldenstone will set you back almost a C-note more these days.

[VandymanG]

Michael and others, how good are serrated edges vs plain edges for survival and bush crafting? These survival people tend to prefer plain edges for ease of field sharpening and batoning through wood.

I don’t know about the reality tv stuff because I don’t watch it since most of it isn’t reality. But I’d take the upcoming hopefully soon to be released temperance lightweight in CRUWEAR anytime for bushcraft or survival. Especially for any wood work.

One of the ways I test my mules is by feather sticking and it is hard to do especially on the well dried cedar wood I use. I’ve used a VG 10 and LC200N SE folders on wood and they perform so much better. The best plain edge mule I’ve used for feather sticking was the M398 which I would not use for bushcraft or survival due to it being so hard to sharpen and the increased chance of it chipping. CRUWEAR on the other hand is tough has good edge retention and is easy to sharpen so I’m super excited for whenever Spyderco releases the temperance lightweight SE.

I’m relatively new to the SE side of knives but one of the metals recommended to me by this thread was VG 10. I got the Rockjumper in that metal and I like but it does need touching up more than I like. I then got a salt LC200N SE knife and it’s my favorite go to EDC currently. It’s razor sharp and I love the toughness. To me it performs better than VG 10.

[VandymanG]

I’ve got a question for the group. I’ve been looking for a good gardening knife. I have two SE knives, one is a VG 10 wharncliffe and the other is a LC200N sheepfoot. Both are pretty good but I was wondering if the hawkbill shape of the Tasman in H1 steel would be better? Any feedback would be appreciated.

[JSumm]

I’ve got a question for the group. I’ve been looking for a good gardening knife. I have two SE knives, one is a VG 10 wharncliffe and the other is a LC200N sheepfoot. Both are pretty good but I was wondering if the hawkbill shape of the Tasman in H1 steel would be better? Any feedback would be appreciated.

I have heard great feedback on the forum for the hawkbill shape for this purpose. I have used a wharncliffe SE in VG-10 and was very pleased with it in the yard. I often jam it into the ground and circle stubborn weeds' root systems to pop them out. Decided the wharncliffe tip was a bit to thin for the rocky GA red clay. Gave me a reason to try out the SE Stretch 2 XL Salt and it is about perfect for me. Much pointier and longer blade than the Salt 2 I was using, so it penetrates the earth easy. Still maintains a decently thick point.

[Evil D]

I’ve got a question for the group. I’ve been looking for a good gardening knife. I have two SE knives, one is a VG 10 wharncliffe and the other is a LC200N sheepfoot. Both are pretty good but I was wondering if the hawkbill shape of the Tasman in H1 steel would be better? Any feedback would be appreciated.

Hawkbills are perfect for cutting stems, you can sort of reach around to the back side of a stem and pull cut them, especially with the last large serration on a hawkbill.

For this I prefer a longer blade for better reach, a Spyderhawk would be ideal if you can find one.



I've always imagined the ultimate gardening knife is probably a Matriarch. They have an even more pronounced hawkbill style tip for those pull cuts and provide the same length reach as a Spyderhawk, and the belly section of the blade may benefit you in other situations. If bigger knives aren't your thing there's also the Lil Matriarch but it doesn't quite has as much hook and I don't think would be a effective.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I love that picture of the SpyderHawk with the peppers.

[Bill1170]

I’ve been carrying two SE Spyderco’s in rotation lately. One is my VG-10 Endela. The other is my K390 Endura. I love them both. The Endura has a few small pits, the Endela has none. Both were reprofiled to 15 degrees* on the Sharpmaker and both perform brilliantly on a range of tasks. The Endela has a more “worn” looking set of scallops. I think this is a combination of two factors. One factor is that the Endela scallops came shallower from the factory. The other factor is how the VG-10 responded to being reprofiled on the CBN rods. The points became more rounded, which is to say they developed a larger radius than the points on my Endura. Having also done the same to my saber-ground Endura in VG-10, with similar rounding, I’m reasonably confident that what I’m seeing is a difference between how the two steel alloys respond to having the scallops made more acute on the Sharpmaker with the CBN rods.


As for performance, the more rounded Endela has an advantage cutting corrugated cardboard; it feels like there’s less friction/drag in the cut. The Endura feels more performant when cutting tough woody branches such as bougainvillea. I think the more spiky serrations (still rounded, just less so) transfer more violet impacts to the plant tissue, and this helps in severing it. In softer vegetation like birds of paradise the two blades seem to perform similarly. However, I’m happier to cut those with the Endela so I don’t have to wash and dry the blade immediately after to prevent corrosion. So the excellent stain resistance of VG-10 continues to influence my preference in folder blades.

*That’s 15 degrees on the scallop side, which probably yields about 18 degrees inclusive. I’m using the 30 degree angle on the Sharpmaker.

[Bill1170]

I had occasion to cut up a lot of cardboard today at church. My K390 Endura just sailed through it, and it was the double-corrugated stuff, very thick. I was moving much faster than my friend who was using a box cutter. I credit this to the way a SE blade hooks into the material and doesn’t try to escape the cut. I’m super pleased, wasn’t expecting to be doing that task, it just came up that we needed to pack a huge amount of cardboard into a couple of bins, so nothing over 20” square would fit tightly enough.

[JoviAl]

I’ve got a question for the group. I’ve been looking for a good gardening knife. I have two SE knives, one is a VG 10 wharncliffe and the other is a LC200N sheepfoot. Both are pretty good but I was wondering if the hawkbill shape of the Tasman in H1 steel would be better? Any feedback would be appreciated.

I bought a Tasman salt for green chop and drop tasks at work. I REALLY wanted it to be awesome, but in back to back comparison to all of my other SE knives it just didn’t perform that well. I found I needed quite a bit more force to use it like a sickle than I did to just slash cut through the same plants with a drop point or sheep’s foot. The Jumpmaster 2 just made a mockery of it for thicker stuff like big gingers and banana stems, and was easier to use for everything else with the possible rare exception of very thin vines against a fence or wall.

The Tasman Salt has been relocated to my kitchen knife rack now, where it does a roaring trade in opening hard shell tropical fruits and bacon packets.

[VandymanG]

I think I found my garden knife plus just about anything else knife. It’s beautiful.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

David as you know from my previous posts I am a sharpening novice. One of my goals that you vivi and sal inspired me to achieve is to successfully sharpen a triple point edge. I have in my possession a vintage Endura, full serrated, and to my feeling of them the serrations feel duller than my Endura 4. What should I do, or since its vintage, leave it be?

[Evil D]

David as you know from my previous posts I am a sharpening novice. One of my goals that you vivi and sal inspired me to achieve is to successfully sharpen a triple point edge. I have in my possession a vintage Endura, full serrated, and to my feeling of them the serrations feel duller than my Endura 4. What should I do, or since its vintage, leave it be?

If you have a Sharpmaker just start there. Use the Sharpie method and color the entire edge bevel, then start with the white rods just in case your angle is way wrong, that way the white rods don't cut very aggressively so you won't do any real damage to the knife/edge but it'll show you where the rods are hitting the edge. You'll probably need to use the 40 degrees inclusive slots. If you do this and see that you're hitting the apex, I'd switch to the brown rods and do about 4 strokes on the left and one on the right and just work on it until it's sharp. Go slow and gentle and allow the corner of the rods to drop down into each serration.

One thing I've been doing for about the last year or so is, on my strokes on the left rod/serrations grind side, I don't make one long downward stroke across the entire blade from heel to tip, I make several passes that only cover about an inch or so of the edge, then I start a new stroke that slightly overlaps the last one, so it may take 10 strokes on a longer blade to equal one full pass along the entire edge.

For me this helps to stop the edge from bumping off the rods too much and I feel it does a better job at getting into the smaller serrations, plus it's more of a straight edge leading stroke than you get when you try to cover the entire length of the edge in one pass, which ends up with a diagonal scratch pattern across your bevel. This can actually be done intentionally on any knife if you want to make pull cuts more aggressive (another nod to Cliff Stamp for that little nugget of info).

[Bill1170]

When sharpening Spyderedges on the Sharpmaker I alternate pulling and pushing strokes so as to even out the material removed from both sides of each scallop. Pulling/pushing slowly is important. Otherwise, as David mentioned, you risk hitting only the peaks and skipping over the valleys. His method of doing short sections at a time is also a good way to forestall missing the valleys.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

David and Bill if I cannot get a Sharp Maker will the Web Foot work well?

[Bill1170]

David and Bill if I cannot get a Sharp Maker will the Web Foot work well?

I don’t know, I’ve never used a Webfoot.