You just recently brought the duckfoot to my attention, and now the profile set. Is it just a medium and a fine rod? Because I have one of each. I'll be using them to sharpen my pac salt relatively soon.steelcity16 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:19 pmGreat idea Pelagic. I have a Sharpmaker, Byrd Duckfoot, and a 701MF Profile set. I don't really know what I am doing though, so I am very interested to hear some best practices and steel-specific techniques with these systems, especially when used to sharpen Cruwear, 52100, M4, 4V, M390, H1, LC200N, VG-10, and 8Cr13MoV.
You have some good sharpening supplies, far surpassing mine. I too have stropped on 30, 35, and 40 micron diamonds, except it was dry powder. I don't mind the edge it yields one bit, especially on s110v. It's also a secret weapon for pesky burrs if you're in a hurry.RustyIron wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:34 pmOk, I'll join in. It might be fun to compare and maybe get some new ideas.
I like to work on an Edge Pro Professional. My focus has changed recently. In the past, my primary goal was getting a fine, mirror-like edge. My finer stones are a 2k blue speckled, a 5k bamboo, and an 8k speckled ume. From there I'd take a couple steps to 0.25 micron CBN on nano cloth. My polished edges are beautiful and quite a joy to use.
But recently, I've been playing around with coarser finishes. I've been using mostly a 400 or 1k diamond plate, then lightly stropping with 40 micron diamonds on roo meat. Getting an epic edge with the 400 grit diamond plate requires more attention to detail and a delicate touch.
My conclusions are that the coarser edge will cut through things like artichoke stems better than a polished edge. I think the polished edge will cut through an overripe tomato better. The polished edge definitely cuts through fabric better. The coarse edge seems to grab my fingerprints more, but maybe I just can't "feel" the polished edge on my fingertips. It's not a good idea to get too fixated on the "feel" of an edge.
Today I touched up a couple kitchen knives, as well as my weekday work knife, a Manix 2 with S110V. I've always given it a polish in the past, but today I gave it the 400 + 40μ treatment. I'm eager to see how it performs and holds up.
I'm not a fan of serrated edges any more, but have dabbled with a couple serrated knives that I used to carry a lot. I bagged a selection of diamond rods and freehanded them a bit. They came out ok, but I really need to put in a big more effort.Pelagic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:47 pmI attribute this to both the SM rods and the steel, as I've used a brown rod in the past and was pleasantly surprised with its cutting speed. I couldn't match the bevel perfectly, but it got very sharp very quickly. I'll be getting lots of practice with the rods, since I consider any serrated knife I carry (at work) as a tool that must always be sharp, as it could save someone's life.
I've never had issues with S30V chipping out. Guess I've been lucky.Cambertree wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:27 amGood write up Vivi, and that's a very nice edge. I haven't had much luck with S30V at thin, low angles.
When it wears a bit, I always seem to end up with odd microchips, particularly around the belly towards the tip.
Sometimes it seems like even sharpening can initiate tiny chips here and there. They are tiny, in that you can't really see them, but you can feel and hear the unevenness on the stones. They are just visible with a 10x loupe.
I'll be interested to hear how you go with that edge.
Is that green chromium oxide compound on a rough side leather strop?
I've been having good results with the edge so far. I've been making a point to carry the Manix daily instead of reaching for my Pacific Salt, because I'm trying to dull the edge I put on it.Cambertree wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:44 amI’ll be interested to hear how that edge works for you.
I’ve noticed some very experienced deer hunters (some of whom are butchers and slaughtermen by trade) often use a similar technique with their boning and skinning knives, when breaking a carcass down into cuts.
They usually just work with a worn diamond steel and maybe strop a bit on the palm of their hand or jeans, or not at all.
When I’m in camp, I’m normally responsible for keeping the working knives sharp and cycling them back to the hunters doing the butchering.
I use a coarse diamond steel (or Sharpmaker rods) to apex with, finishing with lighter and lighter passes. Then I might give a few passes on a white ceramic steel to align the coarse edge a bit, and that’s it.
It seems to work well. I now run that kind of edge on my S30V custom Loveless style drop point: usual thin back bevel at around 10-12dps, then apex with the Sharpmaker diamond rods at 15dps, getting lighter and lighter with the finishing passes, then maybe a few passes with the UF rods at 20dps, and a light 0.1 micron diamond emulsion strop on balsa to align the edge a bit.
That aggressive edge seems to last longer and work better in processing game meat.
Of course, when I’m doing presentation slicing in the kitchen before and after cooking it, I use a knife with a highly refined edge.
I’ve probably mentioned this before, but there’s a fascinating series of images on thescienceofsharp blog, where the author achieves a comfortable, smooth shaving edge on a straight razor with just the 325 grit DMT, and a very light touch.
When he compared scanning electron microscope images of the same edge sharpened at higher grits, there was actually a reduction in edge keenness and uniformity, which seems counterintuitive. His theory was that a light touch with coarse diamond plates, means that only the tips of the diamonds are abrading the steel. With the smaller mesh diamonds at higher grits, they are able to plough deeply into the steel with the same pressure, due to their smaller diameter.
Also, if anyone knows where I could still get a set of 701 Profile stones at a reasonable price, could you please PM me?
Thanks for that very interesting progress report, Vivi.Vivi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:46 pmI've been having good results with the edge so far. I've been making a point to carry the Manix daily instead of reaching for my Pacific Salt, because I'm trying to dull the edge I put on it.
Still going strong.
One thing I've noticed with S30V is while I have no issues with it chipping or getting it sharp, it does not hold that freshly sharpened feel for very long. In fact while S30V holds a working edge longer than VG10 for me, I find VG10 holds a freshly sharpened feel longer cutting certain materials.
Anyways the low grit edge seems to be helping here. Can't speak for long term retention, but in the days since I sharpened the Manix its done a great job of holding on to that freshly sharpened bite.
It's been a fun experiment so far. May end up carrying PE knives more often if this edge configuration keeps performing like this. After becoming a SE fan I've come to appreciate the way they grab material. I can get a polished PE to slice things like poly rope...but after a little dulling there is a lot more slipping around VS a slightly dulled SE. I like edges that retain that aggressive bite longer than PE S30V sharpened beyond 1,000 grit has been for me.
Thanks for the detailed rundown, Pelagic - yeah I run a similar edge on S30V at the moment - a coarse edge, finished with a very light touch, then a few passes each on 3, 1, 0.25 and 0.1 um diamond and CBN strops.Pelagic wrote: First time actually sharpening (re-profiling) the Shaman. I didn't have much time so I didn't want to drastically change the factory angle. I probably dropped it back a degree or so. Used my new stone holder and locked in a 325 grit DMT bench stone. After about 5 minutes of light passes and occasional back/forth motions to target certain areas, I had a burr along the entirety of the blade and switched to the other hand, constantly keeping the apex facing me. The other side only took about 3 or 4 minutes. After one round of 3 passes per side I went to 2 passes per side for about 2 minutes. Finished with 3-4 minutes of light alternating passes. Checking the blade on arm hair, it wasn't sharp enough to absolutely treetop lots of hairs. It could however catch on the hair (lightly gliding the blade about 1/4 inch above the skin, it would occasionally touch a hair and stop the knife from moving). This was good enough for my current goals. I moved onto a 3 micron leather strop, and noticed a small amount of burr near the tip that eluded my observation. I decided simply to strop until it was gone, which totalled 5 light passes per side. It was now treetopping quite a few hairs. I went straight to 0.1 micron on leather to give it something extra. After 5 passes per side it was treetopping many more hairs than before. Edge was very sticky and this blade in particular seems to take an above average edge for s30v. Both strops were loaded with a mixture of diamond compound and diamond powder for added cutting speed. The result was extremely sharp, but I feel that I removed more of the teeth created by the first stone than I normally aim to. I'm fine with this however, the edge is just a bit more refined and still slices extremely well.