Real World User Experience Sharpening CPM 15V

[blueblur]

I spent some time lowering the bevel and getting to know the steel a little more and I’ve found the burr to be a little stubborn to remove. I started with a 120 cbn stone and switched to a 400 grit cbn and moved the burr back and forth twice. I then tried stropping with 1 micron generic diamond spray on basswood and couldn’t make a difference with the burr. In the past I’ve gone to a Spyderco ultra fine stone for a few swipes and that usually is a good transition to the strop when working with a burr that doesn’t want to go. But this time the UF stone didn’t do much so I went to a fine stone from the sharpmaker and was able to see progress. I then went to the UF stone for a couple of passes and then to the strop. I decided to order a 1000 grit cbn stone and 1 micron stroppy stuff for the next time and am curious what kind of difference that will make.

What are others’ experience with removing the burr and what equipment are you seeing results from?

[Nemo3000]

Sharpening is one thing but it bites ! ;-)

Come on, you strategically squeezed a bit to get them drops as picturesque, didn't you?

Even not. :-)
It just fell that way.
I was clumsy while sharpning it on a too small stone.

For the record, Sal is certainly the most cut of all Spyderco users. It is a blessing. ;-)

[sal]

Embarrassing, but probably true.

sal

[Jeb]

Nah, that's how the Vikings tempered there blades, that's what's going on here. I do this all the time and trust me, on blood thinners, getting enough to temper a blade, is not hard to do lol. You just get the blood off quickly as possible.

[ejames13]

Finally got around to reprofiling my Millie 2. The factory bevel on this one was bad. I always forget to take a before picture, but I spent a considerable amount of time fixing it.

Really happy with how it turned out, and 15v sharpened up very nicely. I reprofiled at 14dps with 150 grit diamond plate, followed up 400 grit SiC to remove the large burr and heavy scratches. Apexed with a microbevel at 17dps on 1200 grit Atoma plate followed by 3 micron and 1 micron diamond on leather.

[ejames13]

Finally got around to reprofiling my Millie 2. The factory bevel on this one was bad. I always forget to take a before picture, but I spent a considerable amount of time fixing it.

Really happy with how it turned out, and 15v sharpened up very nicely. I reprofiled at 14dps with 150 grit diamond plate, followed up 400 grit SiC to remove the large burr and heavy scratches. Apexed with a microbevel at 17dps on 1200 grit Atoma plate followed by 3 micron and 1 micron diamond on leather.

Used this knife for a few days doing my normal cardboard breakdown routine, and have to say I was pretty disappointed with how quickly the shaving edge was gone. To be fair, this has been my experience with just about all high vanadium steels.

I get that resin or metallic bonded diamonds are ideal for ultimate edge retention on steels like this, so maybe that's my problem. However, I did apex with plated diamonds after the SiC and finished on diamond loaded strops. Examined under 60x magnification and could not see a burr. So I would expect to get longer front-end sharpness even if not 100% of what's possible with the "right" stones.

I'm sure it would've kept cutting cardboard forever with the working edge, but I'm a sucker for that high level of sharpness. Maybe that just means I should stick to simpler alloys.

[Deadboxhero]

Finally got around to reprofiling my Millie 2. The factory bevel on this one was bad. I always forget to take a before picture, but I spent a considerable amount of time fixing it.

Really happy with how it turned out, and 15v sharpened up very nicely. I reprofiled at 14dps with 150 grit diamond plate, followed up 400 grit SiC to remove the large burr and heavy scratches. Apexed with a microbevel at 17dps on 1200 grit Atoma plate followed by 3 micron and 1 micron diamond on leather.

Used this knife for a few days doing my normal cardboard breakdown routine, and have to say I was pretty disappointed with how quickly the shaving edge was gone. To be fair, this has been my experience with just about all high vanadium steels.

I get that resin or metallic bonded diamonds are ideal for ultimate edge retention on steels like this, so maybe that's my problem. However, I did apex with plated diamonds after the SiC and finished on diamond loaded strops. Examined under 60x magnification and could not see a burr. So I would expect to get longer front-end sharpness even if not 100% of what's possible with the "right" stones.

I'm sure it would've kept cutting cardboard forever with the working edge, but I'm a sucker for that high level of sharpness. Maybe that just means I should stick to simpler alloys.

Stop using a microbevel.

[ejames13]

Finally got around to reprofiling my Millie 2. The factory bevel on this one was bad. I always forget to take a before picture, but I spent a considerable amount of time fixing it.

Really happy with how it turned out, and 15v sharpened up very nicely. I reprofiled at 14dps with 150 grit diamond plate, followed up 400 grit SiC to remove the large burr and heavy scratches. Apexed with a microbevel at 17dps on 1200 grit Atoma plate followed by 3 micron and 1 micron diamond on leather.

Used this knife for a few days doing my normal cardboard breakdown routine, and have to say I was pretty disappointed with how quickly the shaving edge was gone. To be fair, this has been my experience with just about all high vanadium steels.

I get that resin or metallic bonded diamonds are ideal for ultimate edge retention on steels like this, so maybe that's my problem. However, I did apex with plated diamonds after the SiC and finished on diamond loaded strops. Examined under 60x magnification and could not see a burr. So I would expect to get longer front-end sharpness even if not 100% of what's possible with the "right" stones.

I'm sure it would've kept cutting cardboard forever with the working edge, but I'm a sucker for that high level of sharpness. Maybe that just means I should stick to simpler alloys.

Stop using a microbevel.

Can you elaborate?

[sal]

Hi Shawn,

I've been using mine for months at 30 degrees (15DPS) on a Sharpmaker. No micro-bevel. Always shaving sharp. 5 or 6 strokes a day to maintain that edge.

I'm on Island, so corrosion has its challenges.

sal

[xceptnl]

Hi Hamilton,

Should be no problem. (I think we're going to be disco'ing that stone?) The brown/gray material is friable, meaning it will eventually wear, after the surface is "cracked" I find that on the triangle, I like to "crack" the surface by rubbing the corners of two against each other. It cuts faster, once the corner is "cracked" but it does wear to the point where it will eventually have to be replaced. The fine grit (white) doesn't wear enough to wear out.

sal

This was why I picked up a spare set of the 302M and 302F benchstones. I realize you're partial Sal, but if you had to choose between the Sharpmaker with the addition of the CBN stones or the pairing I've seen for sale of the CBN duckfoot and goldenstone combo?

[sal]

Hi Landon,

I use the Triangle Sharpmaker, Gauntlet and Galley V sharpeners when I'm "home" and the Duckfoot/Golden stone when traveling.

sal

[xceptnl]

Hi Landon,

I use the Triangle Sharpmaker, Gauntlet and Galley V sharpeners when I'm "home" and the Duckfoot/Golden stone when traveling.

sal

Currently i use the benchstones when home and the 701 profiles in my daily carry bag. The profiles get way more use. Glad to see the 701s returning to the lineup with CBN added.

[CDEP]

Per @sal , I'm putting Sharpmaker 15dps with no micro bevel on all my BBB 15v knives, and with a few passes on a strop after any serious use I haven't had to re-sharpen. This includes the three original releases, so it's been awhile for those blades. I use the diamond rods for the first reprofile. Hoping when I do need to touch them up on rods that the brown mediums will be good.

[barnaclesonaboat]

My 15V M2 has been with me most of my non-work hours (office) since it arrived. While the last few mm of tip actually wasn't apexed from the factory, the edge performed very well through weeks of regular garden/shop use before I finally decided to sharpen it last week. I've had my 15V Mule at 30 degrees inclusive for at least a year and have loved that edge (still stropping back!), but wanted to push it a little farther. I put the M2 at 25 degrees inclusive on my guided system using an Atoma 400 plate for re-profiling, the Venev Orion diamond matrix stones through 1500, and a 1um Gunny Juice strop. It's mirror-ish and shaves well and the change in geometry has made a new favorite knife even more favorite-r in use. The new edge has not chipped or rolled yet. We'll see how long this edge lasts...

Here are some pics of the new 12.5 degree edges next to my essentially unused S90V M2 facotry edge for reference:

[Skylark427]

I couldn't resist to post in this thread. I'm extremely pleased with the Shaman in 15V. I also have a Millie 2 in 15V, but the Shaman is more my style. We're at pretty close to 20° per side on the factory edge, I plan on taking that down to 15° on my system. So far, nothing but positive feedback for it. It's absolutely what I was looking for in a high edge retention blade.

I have to say, the way the blade has almost a mirror finish, with hints of sparkling throughly the blade and a rainbow like color in different lightings just make this steel absolutely beautiful. I can't commend Sal and Shawn enough for this collaboration. You both went above and beyond.

When I get to sharpening, I'll comment again. Just wanted to say so far I love this thing.

[Skylark427]

Very hard to get a closeup of the edge on my phone without magnification. Stopped it once with 1 micron diamond prior to use, this is a few weeks in. Overall edge still slices through everything like butter.

[Snacktime]

Been slowly coarse sharpening my 15v military 2 to fix the bevel and very happy with the toothy edge. Then again I am not edge testing at all just working on my reprofile.

I do think I need new rods for my sharpmaker 15V as I don't see trace material on my Diamond rods anymore.

[Skylark427]

Been slowly coarse sharpening my 15v military 2 to fix the bevel and very happy with the toothy edge. Then again I am not edge testing at all just working on my reprofile.

I do think I need new rods for my sharpmaker 15V as I don't see trace material on my Diamond rods anymore.

You may need to get new rods. I'm looking at a whole new system, but I can tell when my plates get bad on my WorkSharp just from how it doesn't "bite" into it anymore with coarse plates, barely leaving any material behind. This steel is pretty hard, from testing at work a bit harder on the Shaman than was advertised but could be variations in testers, the Millie 2 was more in line with what was advertised. Overall, harder steels like these seem to sharpen pretty easy with diamond without much pressure on coarse plates. But I want to move onto bonded stones, as Shawn recommended.

[Skylark427]

For fun, since I lack a microscope, I figured I post a picture of my Shaman's factory edge through a jeweler's loop, 3.5× magnification on my phone in pro mode, 30× magnification jewlers loop. Probably the closest I can get to my edge without a microscope (I'm only at the beginning getting everything set up for my home shop for, hopefully, making blades for myself to start, maybe for friends in the future). I'm reliant on my workplace for all hardness tests via a Mitutoyo analog Rockwell tester until I get my own, hardness test for the Shaman came out higher than expected, over 66Rc. The Millie 2 came back at just over 65Rc around what these were rated at. Not sure if it's a just a difference in testing methods, or testers.

Regardless this is my Shaman's edge after a month of use, and after passing my 4" oak log test. For the test, I use a deadblow hammer to baton the blade into 4~ inch round oak log, that's fully dried. This knife passed with flying colors. Zero edge damage on the factory edge, in fact, it barely looks used still. The only steels to have passed this test are 64.8Rc Magnacut on a custom Pro-tech Mordax knife ( 17-4 stainless bodied one) a 3V custom fixed 6" blade(62~Rc), a 1944 Ka-Bar Commando fixed blade (not the standard issue 7" blade but a 6" blade one, slightly more rare), and a CPM-D2 8 inch RDW custom fixed blade at 64.5Rc.

As you can tell, by the other knives in this test, 15V by Spyderco is quite higher in carbide volume than any of the other knives I've tested, they're all at similar hardness but all have considerably less carbide volume than 15V, the closest being CPM-D2 at roughly 15~%. Almost a full 10% behind 15V and it's 23~% carbide volume.

This speaks volumes to how well Spyderco did on these knives along with Shawn Houston. I can't commend them enough. I hope with me keeping this thread alive I can get Shawn's attention, and he can maybe shed a bit of light on if the heat treatment process was the same for all these knives, or if some were a bit higher than the range originally advertised, as my Shaman is testing higher than the Mille 2, about a full point higher. I know Mitutoyo is a reputable brand for hardness testers, the machine is relatively new and serviced every 4 months or so. Also just wanted to give my appreciation to both Shawn and Sal, and Spyderco as a whole for making this possible out of a production knife.

Anyway, here is the picture of the edge immediately after going through the log. It's only been stropped with 1 micron diamond emulsion/compund immediately after recieving it, and has not been touched up sice.


Again, that's 3.5× magnification on professional mode on my phone camera through a 30× magnification jewelers loop.


5.8× magnification through a 30× jewlers loop.

No edge damage is seen throughout the entire blade that I can tell. Outstanding work Spyderco and Shawn.

[Brock O Lee]

It's always puzzling to me when I read people talking about cutting oodles of cardboard, rope, etc., then claiming they can still shave arm hair (and this is not exclusive to 15v - I've seen this claim about various super steels). This has never been the case me for me with any steel, either with the factory edge or with my own edge fully reprofiled down to 14-15dps. I was hoping 15v would be the unicorn, but alas, it seems not. Maybe I'm cutting wrong, or maybe the cardboard I get is especially dirty.

Yeah, I'd say that is normal. I also lose that hair shaving edge quickly on cardboard. Some steels continue to dull quickly after they stopped shaving, but others (like K390) stay sharp enough to keep gliding through cardboard for months without stropping etc, in my experience. But they certainly stopped shaving soon.

I'm still forming an opinion on 15V. I noticed that the factory edges on my Manix and M2 also did not last long, but I am not taking that too seriously. I'm staying away from non-diamond abrasives on these high carbide steels to avoid burnishing. I'll reserve an opinion until I get more miles on a few more edges...