Has the love affair with ZDP-189 ended?

[dreadpirate]

When did it start :rolleyes: ?

[Termite Toothpick]

I have been impressed with my DF2 in ZDP-189! It's a little beast that just keeps slicing. I have touched up the edge once on my WE with the diamond stones and stropping, just to see what I could get it to. And, wow, was I impressed!

[bh49]

When did it start :rolleyes: ?

about 10 years before you joined the forum

[bearfacedkiller]

While we have seen many steels come onto the scene with higher alloy contents we have had only one come along that is offered at the high hardness that ZDP has. In that respect ZDP is still a very unique and high performing steel. I really like it and hope we continue to see it used.

[dreadpirate]

When did it start :rolleyes: ?

about 10 years before you joined the forum

And I would say it's not catching on with relative newcomers then. Seriously though - yes, definitely a super steel. Just a super pain to sharpen and can chip. If you enjoy sharpening (I don't) and are reasonably careful with your knife - then I guess it's a good choice. For me there are better choices.

[Doc Dan]

I think the difficulty sharpening this steel may put people off. It is a great steel and there are always trade offs. You get x quality, you lose x property, etc. ZDP-189 is like that. You get high hardness and great edge retention, but you also get chipping and difficulty sharpening. Trade offs.

[Evil D]

I would refer everyone to my thread about having a steel that challenges your skills. Ultimately I have to say any difficulty with sharpening this steel is 100% user created, and that's coming straight from my own issues and lessons learned through sharpening it.

[Bloke]

I'm a little confused as to why so many of us here find ZDP-189 so hard to sharpen and I'm loath to sound like a smart arse but I find it easy to sharpen with simple SiC stones and that's all I use on it as far as stones go.

Admittedly I use a guided sharpening system but I end up with an edge that bites hair off a 400 grit stone almost like the razor I shave with. If I work through to a 1200 grit it near whittles hair stropped on newspaper.

It is a little brittle and the edge is easily smashed with say a 180 grit stone and a little pressure. I don't use anything below 220 grit and very little pressure. I move to a 400 and 600 and no pressure by which time it's seriously sharp and I finish with chrome oxide on a stiff leather strop which I also use to maintain it between sharpening.

I'm fairly idle and when chrome oxide isn't doing it I strop with 5 micron diamond on balsa wood. Truth be known I'd be better off with a micro bevel off my SM but like I said I'm idle so a strop under the coffee table is easier. :rolleyes:

I like ZDP-189 a lot. :)

[bearfacedkiller]

I don't find it any harder to sharpen than all the high carbide steels that are in such high demand.

I think it just that people are quick to accept something new as automatically better and equally quick to write off something old as obsolete. ZDP, like D2, has been around long enough to seem old fashioned I guess. People are starting to feel the same way about s30V and vg10. Yesterday's news....

I will keep using all of them.

[Xyrium]

Yep, newbie here, but I love VG10 for almost any use, and I'm considering doing a blade swap on my SS Dragonfly by picking up a DF2 with ZDP and swapping the handle. To me, this would make a fantastic eating knife while camping for cutting meats, but not breaking animal bone, etc. That is, if the two handles are still identical. That said, this is Spydies love affair (contracts in Seki?) with Japanese steel. I think it's fantastic, and VG10 along with ZDP189 are pretty much the top two chef's knives steels there, to my knowledge. I think AUS8 is also a great steel, but I digress. Every steel has it's use, and ZDP isn't going away, it's just being filed in with all of the other great steels, for consumers to make educated choices from.

I love that Spyderco offers so many variants of Japanese-based knives. They are all absolutely top notch, and a tremendous bargain. I think the only thing I miss is heat treat hardness specs...

Yeah, the newb is keeping this great thread alive. :)

[Evil D]

In the beginning my problem with sharpening ZDP (and I bet most people's problem) is creating too much burr. I didn't realize how much of a problem this was until I got a loupe and could see what was happening. I would sharpen a knife for what seemed like forever and it just wouldn't get any sharper. This was because, during my grit progression I would sharpen until I had a significant burr (because at the time I had read that this was necessary) and then I moved on to the next grit. What I didn't know was, that burr would break off and leave the very apex a jagged mess, and it would stay a jagged mess all the way through to the finer grit stones. I would be polishing an edge, and then look at it under magnification and see that the very edge was practically blunt from where the burr was broken off. This in turn also created a more fragile chip prone edge, which is the other complaint you hear the most of.

The way I got around this was by only sharpening to the point that the edge no longer reflects light. There would still be very small amounts of burr because it's almost impossible not to make a burr, but not so bad that they broke off and left a blunt edge. By doing this with each grit stone, I would arrive at the finer stones with a nice clean apex and that's where you start seeing silly sharp edges AND they're far less prone to chipping. The whole mentality of creating a burr and removing the burr with things like felt blocks and such just didn't do it with this steel. This same practice of avoiding burrs has helped me with every steel I've sharpened.

[mb1]

[quote="Evil D"][/quote]

I really like when you guys share such practical wisdom from experience. Good stuff.

[bh49]

My love affair with ZDP189 only started last fall.

[Bloke]

I would arrive at the finer stones with a nice clean apex and that's where you start seeing silly sharp edges AND they're far less prone to chipping. The whole mentality of creating a burr and removing the burr with things like felt blocks and such just didn't do it with this steel. This same practice of avoiding burrs has helped me with every steel I've sharpened.

D, I couldn't agree more! :cool:

It's exactly how I sharpen and didn't even realise till I read your post.

A burr is quite simply an unsupported edge that was pushed out of the way rather than cut away. I avoid a burr at all cost and I can fairly easily by using light pressure and sharp abrasives.

I find it a little annoying and sad for the person concerned when I read similar to, it's impossible to sharpen and it chips, the pivot rusted ... now my favourite blade steel is 316 Stainless! :eek:

To the new players, I'd say take onboard D's advise, disregard the nonsense you've read regarding ZDP-189 and enjoy the benefits!

Not sure if I mentioned ... I like ZDP-189 lots. :D

[DougC-3]

In the beginning my problem with sharpening ZDP (and I bet most people's problem) is creating too much burr. I didn't realize how much of a problem this was until I got a loupe and could see what was happening. I would sharpen a knife for what seemed like forever and it just wouldn't get any sharper. This was because, during my grit progression I would sharpen until I had a significant burr (because at the time I had read that this was necessary) and then I moved on to the next grit. What I didn't know was, that burr would break off and leave the very apex a jagged mess, and it would stay a jagged mess all the way through to the finer grit stones. I would be polishing an edge, and then look at it under magnification and see that the very edge was practically blunt from where the burr was broken off. This in turn also created a more fragile chip prone edge, which is the other complaint you hear the most of.

The way I got around this was by only sharpening to the point that the edge no longer reflects light. There would still be very small amounts of burr because it's almost impossible not to make a burr, but not so bad that they broke off and left a blunt edge. By doing this with each grit stone, I would arrive at the finer stones with a nice clean apex and that's where you start seeing silly sharp edges AND they're far less prone to chipping. The whole mentality of creating a burr and removing the burr with things like felt blocks and such just didn't do it with this steel. This same practice of avoiding burrs has helped me with every steel I've sharpened.

Not to digress too much (I love my BRG ZDP Endura, a Spyderco icon IMO, and also have a couple of ZDP Stretches) but do you vary this procedure any when sharpening S110V, or do you do it pretty much the same? And did you say in the loupe thread a couple of years ago that you use a 60X loupe? And what brand is it? I've had in mind getting a better one for quite a while now.

[anagarika]

I would arrive at the finer stones with a nice clean apex and that's where you start seeing silly sharp edges AND they're far less prone to chipping. The whole mentality of creating a burr and removing the burr with things like felt blocks and such just didn't do it with this steel. This same practice of avoiding burrs has helped me with every steel I've sharpened.

D, I couldn't agree more! :cool:

It's exactly how I sharpen and didn't even realise till I read your post.

A burr is quite simply an unsupported edge that was pushed out of the way rather than cut away. I avoid a burr at all cost and I can fairly easily by using light pressure and sharp abrasives.

I find it a little annoying and sad for the person concerned when I read similar to, it's impossible to sharpen and it chips, the pivot rusted ... now my favourite blade steel is 316 Stainless! :eek:

To the new players, I'd say take onboard D's advise, disregard the nonsense you've read regarding ZDP-189 and enjoy the benefits!

Not sure if I mentioned ... I like ZDP-189 lots. :D

I found it the same. Excessive burr is created when there is too much pressure. Lighten up is the way for good results with ZDP. Actually it is with any steel.

[Evil D]

Not to digress too much (I love my BRG ZDP Endura, a Spyderco icon IMO, and also have a couple of ZDP Stretches) but do you vary this procedure any when sharpening S110V, or do you do it pretty much the same? And did you say in the loupe thread a couple of years ago that you use a 60X loupe? And what brand is it? I've had in mind getting a better one for quite a while now.

Yep, pretty much the same routine on every steel, some just take longer than others. As others have said a light touch is especially important with steels like this and when you're finishing with one stone and moving to the next grit. I make lighter and shorter passes into the edge to minimize burr.

As for loupes I have a 10x and a 60x. I use the 10x far more. The 60x is fun sometimes but the depth of field is so small with higher magnification loupes that you see such a small section of the edge it isn't as easy to use, plus focusing on that loupe is tricky. I don't know the brand, it was a "pocket microscope" I got off Amazon for cheap.

[Bloke]

loupe? And what brand is it? I've had in mind getting a better one for quite a while now.

I have a 10x Belomo and can't fault it. :)

[DougC-3]

Not to digress too much (I love my BRG ZDP Endura, a Spyderco icon IMO, and also have a couple of ZDP Stretches) but do you vary this procedure any when sharpening S110V, or do you do it pretty much the same? And did you say in the loupe thread a couple of years ago that you use a 60X loupe? And what brand is it? I've had in mind getting a better one for quite a while now.

Yep, pretty much the same routine on every steel, some just take longer than others. As others have said a light touch is especially important with steels like this and when you're finishing with one stone and moving to the next grit. I make lighter and shorter passes into the edge to minimize burr.

As for loupes I have a 10x and a 60x. I use the 10x far more. The 60x is fun sometimes but the depth of field is so small with higher magnification loupes that you see such a small section of the edge it isn't as easy to use, plus focusing on that loupe is tricky. I don't know the brand, it was a "pocket microscope" I got off Amazon for cheap.

Thanks for the details -- I'm sure I've been a little heavy handed with my S110V.

[Evil D]

Not to digress too much (I love my BRG ZDP Endura, a Spyderco icon IMO, and also have a couple of ZDP Stretches) but do you vary this procedure any when sharpening S110V, or do you do it pretty much the same? And did you say in the loupe thread a couple of years ago that you use a 60X loupe? And what brand is it? I've had in mind getting a better one for quite a while now.

Yep, pretty much the same routine on every steel, some just take longer than others. As others have said a light touch is especially important with steels like this and when you're finishing with one stone and moving to the next grit. I make lighter and shorter passes into the edge to minimize burr.

As for loupes I have a 10x and a 60x. I use the 10x far more. The 60x is fun sometimes but the depth of field is so small with higher magnification loupes that you see such a small section of the edge it isn't as easy to use, plus focusing on that loupe is tricky. I don't know the brand, it was a "pocket microscope" I got off Amazon for cheap.

Thanks for the details -- I'm sure I've been a little heavy handed with my S110V.

Best two habits you can develop are keeping your stones clean and flat, and using a light touch and letting the stones do the work.