Mac vs PC

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jtoler_9
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#81

Post by jtoler_9 »

Blerv wrote:Gaming laptops suck so bad that makers should be imprisoned for extorting money from n00bs with more credit line than sense.
Great post and great discussion in this thread. I'm glad to see that there are some fellow geeks in here.

+1 Blerv, I stay away from "gaming laptops".
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#82

Post by Bradley »

I have a Lenovo idea pad (y560) what a hunk of garbage! Build quality is bad. I get the blue screen almost everyday because the amd radeon thing fails and shuts the computer down. You can't game on it regardless of the supposedly good specs. Battery life is a joke. Would never buy it again. And it was stupidly expensive for how good it is.
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#83

Post by Whieee »

Blerv wrote: PS: In the event it wasn't made clear enough, laptops suck but are tolerable as a necessary evil. Expensive laptops suck more. Gaming laptops suck so bad that makers should be imprisoned for extorting money from n00bs with more credit line than sense.
Were all the laptops you've worked with that ******? ;) I'm typing this from my 13 inch MacBook Air, and I can seriously say I could use this laptop all day, every day, without suffering from RSI or getting urges to jump down bridges ;)

However, most (especially cheaper) manufacturers seem to skimp on the 3 things that matter the most, just to save a buck or two:
1. screen
2. keyboard
3. touchpad

Most laptops ship with ****** screens. They're mostly WAY too glossy, WAY too dim, the colors suck, and the person who allowed 15.6 inch notebooks to ship with just 1366x768 pixels should be thrown in prison for life. If I'm buying a BIG laptop, I want to display MORE CONTENT, not the same content, but just bigger. Good screens should be anti-glare (matte) or at least not overly glossy (my MacBook Pro can be a real mirror at times, but my MacBook Air hardly reflects, even though its display is glossy), be sufficiently bright, have decent viewing angles, decent color accuracy ( >60% of Adobe RGB would be nice), and decent resolution. My MacBook Pro has 1280x800 on 13 inch, which to me is on the low side. My MacBook Air has 1440x900 on the same 13 inch, which is actually really nice.

Most cheaper laptops have ****** keyboards. They flex as ****, have crappy layouts just to cramp in a few more keys, the keys are mushy, and non-backlit. Most of the time, the keyboard is also placed off-center, so you're never right in front of your screen. Both my Macs and every decent Thinkpad or Latitude I've worked with had a decent keyboard, often backlit (or a thinklight), centered, with good tactile feedback and a simple layout that actually makes sense.

Touchpads are mostly ******. They are too small, not very responsive, have weird 'scrolling zones' or multitouch gestures that just don't work. The buttons are mushy, and all in all they're just a pain to work with. Then there are a few manufacturers, Apple being one of them, who manage to ship notebooks that actually have decent touchpads. In fact, I hated trackpads back when I used PC laptops. After I bought my first Mac, the touchpad began to grow on me. Now, eight years later, I have Apple's Magic Trackpad on my desk, cause I like it better than a mouse (please note that Mac OSX Lion has quite a few multitouch gestures that really make things easier, but you can't do those on your Logitech mouse ).

Contrary to what most cheaper manufacturers make us believe, most of us don't need the fastest Intel quadcore CPU. My MacBook Air has an ultra-low voltage dualcore Core i7 running at a mere 1.7GHz. Certainly not Intel's fastest CPU. But it can handle everything I throw at it, from video transcoding to RAW image processing to compiling to medium-heavy virtualization. Why would I want a faster CPU, if that would mean getting a crappy display, sucky keyboard or a frustratingly small touchpad?

That being said, the best performance upgrade I've _ever_ done to my notebook is swapping out the harddisk for an SSD. Yes, they are expensive, but they're so **** fast I can't live without one now :p I still use 'spinning disks' for my 'slow storage', like movies/music/photos, but running your operating system, applications, and virtual machines off an SSD makes all the difference. It makes so much of a difference, that my boss (with his MacBook Pro with quadcore i7) actually preferred using MY laptop (MacBook Pro which only had an old Core 2 Duo, but it had an SSD).
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#84

Post by Whieee »

Bradley wrote:I have a Lenovo idea pad (y560) what a hunk of garbage! Build quality is bad. I get the blue screen almost everyday because the amd radeon thing fails and shuts the computer down. You can't game on it regardless of the supposedly good specs. Battery life is a joke. Would never buy it again. And it was stupidly expensive for how good it is.
If you're getting BSODs you're either suffering from broken hardware, or your AMD videodriver is broken. Have you tried installing the latest Catalyst drivers? Those might fix most of the issues.

Except for batterylife. You shouldn't be expecting badass battery life from a notebook that you bought because it had the fastest CPU and graphics on the market. Faster chips generally need more power, which equals '****** battery life' ;)
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#85

Post by Blerv »

jtoler_9 wrote:Great post and great discussion in this thread. I'm glad to see that there are some fellow geeks in here.

+1 Blerv, I stay away from "gaming laptops".
You too! (everyone as well, great thread)

We have used "gaming laptops" to run art programs. My wife used the Asus units through 5 years of college for 3D rending. The problem is they are heavy as **** and put out more heat than a WWII space heater. :p

Still, with as much as 36 hour renders in 3DS Max and Maya or Zbrush sculpting they work decent. They still don't keep up with quality desktops which can be tweaked/expanded.

Nothing is more depressing than a $1600 laptop that has been decommissioned as a paper weight. Well, perhaps losing your laptop HD and almost failing Senior year is (which happened to her friend).

Whieee wrote:Were all the laptops you've worked with that ******? ;)
No, they are just expensive for what you get and are like politicians/diapers. They should be changed frequently. :)

Our workplace in the last 4 years has gone through I think 6 Lenovo's. Every 2-3 years we back them up and decommission them (3 employees). None ever has a problem but when you work for yourself a day without your computer is a disaster. Each costs around $600 but function as docking-bay portable workhorses.

My brother's wife has an Macbook Air which is very cool. We could switch to similar computers which we would STILL replace every 2-3 years. It would just cost us more even after tax deductions. *shrug*

I'm not saying our workflow is the best or even the ideal one. It's just our particular workflow. If you decide to buy a very nice spiffy laptop that's great but I would always go for light/convenience similar to the Air (over performance). With cloud-based backups, etc it's probably just as safe and give you better perks. We are trying to move our archaic office over to the tech age (even the old man) so things could change.
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#86

Post by Waffle »

I work as a production photography artist and it's mac all the way. PC's have their uses, e.g., counterstrike or the web. The only downside is that mac's are pretty costly. If I didn't have a thing for Spyderco's, I'd probably already own a real nice mac of my own. Mac > PC, however Spyderco > Mac :D
[Waffle]

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#87

Post by D1omedes »

Can someone explain the differences between an SSD and a disc-based harddrive?
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#88

Post by Whieee »

D1omedes wrote:Can someone explain the differences between an SSD and a disc-based harddrive?
SSD = Solid State Drive. An SSD has no moving parts. A regular harddrive has spinning 'platters' (usually 2 or 3) and heads that search for 'sectors' on those platters. You can look at it as an old vinyl record player. Solid-state storage however, consists of multiple flash chips (similar to the memory cards in your camera) and a controller.

Because an SSD doesn't have to 'spin up' or move heads to a certain position, seek times are more or less zero. The difference between 'zero' and 10msec seems negligible but combined with killer read speeds (the current crop will easily manager 200MB/sec, as opposed to 60MB/sec for regular notebook harddrives), and it literally makes the difference between having to wait for a minute for Photoshop to start, or just 5 seconds. Keep in mind that those 10msec of seek-time happen every time your harddrive needs to re-position the heads (it will happen WAY more often on a heavily fragmented drive).

And while read speeds are killer, the SSD shines in random write speeds, something that's usually painfully slow. Moreover, SSD's can manage WAY more IOps (IO operations per second) than regular SATA hard drives. The more IOps, the more the disk can 'do' in a second. IOps specifically matter when a lot of stuff needs access to the disk (not necessarily reading or writing MUCH data, just lots of reading and writing).

Another plus for the SSD is that is has no moving parts. Conventional spinning hard drives can crash if your notebook falls or hits something, as the heads damage the platters. No such thing with SSDs. No moving parts, so nothing to break ;)

Killer negative for SSDs: they're **** expensive
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#89

Post by Jay_Ev »

Another :)
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#90

Post by Whieee »

Image ;)
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#91

Post by Sequimite »

D1omedes wrote:Can someone explain the differences between an SSD and a disc-based harddrive?
There is a third option which should be your first choice in a desktop, a hard drive with a really big buffer. In tests that I've seen, a 2 gig buffer makes a hard drive almost as fast as an SSD for most applications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_drive
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#92

Post by Whieee »

And power adapters: Apple versus the competition:

Image
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#93

Post by Whieee »

Sequimite wrote:There is a third option which should be your first choice in a desktop, a hard drive with a really big buffer. In tests that I've seen, a 2 gig buffer makes a hard drive almost as fast as an SSD for most applications.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_drive
If you're doing lots of random reads/writes a hybrid drive won't really work though. YMMV. They are much cheaper than SSDs though. ;)
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#94

Post by Fred Sanford »

Jay_Ev,

What is with all the Mac bashing bro? You ever owned one? You ever had problems with one? How about when someone can't build their own computer and they buy a Dell or HP and it comes loaded with all that "crap-ware" that is unneeded? All the preinstalled crap? What do you call that? That is what 90% of people get today when they buy a new computer. Sure they can get one built buy a friend or a local computer geek but then where is the warranty?

I'm an Network Admin and I am employed because of Microsoft and the skills I have configuring MS Servers, Linux Servers etc. I've used Windows and Macs both since 1995 and then DOS before that.

Windows is just not what it's pumped up to be. Yeah Macs are more expensive but after owning one and using one I would buy one again in a heartbeat. No questions asked.

I may have to work on Windows boxes by day but when at home I have no interest in them.
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#95

Post by Fred Sanford »

Slash wrote:Yeah, macbook 2x the cost of pc and 1/2 the speed.
I have a MacBook Pro that runs Windows 7 Professional 64-bit and it runs it better than most Windows boxes. Get your facts straight before posting useless crap.
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Blerv
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#96

Post by Blerv »

The problem is Apple is only one company, "PC" is EVERYONE ELSE!

It's easy to control the idiots when they are under one roof and getting paychecks signed by the same guy.

If you go to Costco and buy a run of the mill Dell and compare it to the run of the mill Mac it's no comparison. Frick, Dell bought Alienware and drove it into the ground too.

Edit: Well, almost everyone else.
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#97

Post by Jay_Ev »

David Lowry wrote:Jay_Ev,

What is with all the Mac bashing bro? You ever owned one?
I apologize. It was all meant in fun, in jest. If it's that upsetting I'll stop. Although in my observation, all the Mac bashing was proportional to all the Mac praise so I figured it equaled out. Yes, I have owned one.

Actually, I will just post one more. Again, it is all in fun and not meant to offend anyone, so please, don't get upset, although it does seem to fit the given situation.

No hard feelings.
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#98

Post by Fred Sanford »

Jay_Ev wrote:I apologize. It was all meant in fun, in jest. If it's that upsetting I'll stop. Although in my observation, all the Mac bashing was proportional to all the Mac praise so I figured it equaled out. Yes, I have owned one.

Actually, I will just post one more. Again, it is all in fun and not meant to offend anyone, so please, don't get upset, although it does seem to fit the given situation.

No hard feelings.
So because there was a lot of Mac praise you wanted to, in jest, post a bunch of false stuff. I see. Why not contribute for real instead of posting a bunch of stupid pictures that you think explain everything? Why not build up the PC with praise instead of posting pictures that nobody can take seriously. :)

U mad bro? :)
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#99

Post by jabba359 »

My Mac and PC experiences at home and at work:

Macs have better design, being more attractive and less cluttered. PC's are much more flexible, as there is a much larger selection of cases, parts, and peripherals. I've had the video card die on my old PC (after six years of use) and various blue screens (Win XP and Win 7-64) that I was able to fix myself, as well as a fatal boot error that required me to re-install Win 7-64 components. The Mac Pro at work lost a video card, roommate's Macbook Pro got the Mac equivalent of a blue screen (Apple had to fix), older iMac HD died, older iMac needed the processor replaced, and newer iMac overheating issues. No virus problems with any of the setups.

I grew up using Windows systems, so I find them easy to navigate, troubleshoot, and fix. While I don't know how to fix a Mac, I find their interface and OS to be extremely easy to use, but if I want to change something on them, I find they lack the flexibility to operate outside the simple, initial parameters. I think both PCs and Macs are nice. I am more of a value person (getting the best for the least money) and find that I'm able to get much more for my money with a PC by building it myself. Those who lack the tech ability to do this may like the simplicity of a Mac. Pre-built PCs range from high-end all the way down to junk. Mac has high end and some mid-range, but no junk, however, you pay a higher $$$ price for this peace of mind. Personally, I prefer PC for desktop and power use but prefer the build quality and simplicity of Macs for laptop and portable use.
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Blerv
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#100

Post by Blerv »

The building thing is pretty easy, at least in my experience.

People assume you have to do it yourself and it's a way to save a buck. The place that did ours beat Best Buy's price by far for a boxed piece of crap. We didn't have to de-clutter it once it arrived either. I think it had like 5 programs installed.

With the number of people building game platforms in legitimate shops it's not like you have to meet a guy in a van or pay a college kid in Doritos. It's a real industry by itself. I would think most places selling the components and doing repairs offer such services. Find the ones with empty cases on display and look at Yelp :) .

Sorry for ringing my own bell so much. Seriously only we know the basics (my wife more than me). The PC folks offer themselves the chance to compare stats, parts and warranties. Who knows? They might just support a small group of enthusiasts and get something better/more personal than Costco has on the floor.

As far as the Mac vs PC debate, it's almost as old as Ford vs Chevy one. People are going to have pros and cons for both and if you truly think one side is superior in every way...you are naive. Archaic technology is seldom kept around, nerds aren't that nostalgic. :p
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