Z-Wear Shaman lookout thread

[Sharp Guy]

I hate to say it, but I gave up on this one before it even dropped, the number of new users who joined the forum to get updates told the tale all too well.

I noticed a lot of new screen names too. Also in the FB groups. I don't think they joined just because of this drop but could be. I think knives are the really hot thing right now and a lot of people are just getting into it

[dlum1]

I was initially surprised PD1 wasn't chosen given the mule team pd1 is a solid performer. My pd1 has taken some accidental abuse with beer wort (which is surprisingly corrosive) and a few dings against metal surfaces (which includes accidentally stabbing some cast iron) and the blade shrugged it off for the most part. The edge and tip rolled over but with no chipping. Since we've seen pd1 in a mule, I suspect Spyderco is testing the waters with their micarta cruwear pm2 (which I believe is a better seller than the shaman). If those sell, then I strongly suspect a pd1 micarta shaman as a standard production model is possible. If I was running the business, that's likely how I'd do it. As of now, it's difficult to determine if the model primarily sold well because it was a sprint. The pm2 model will help determine this. I honestly prefer a rex45 or m4, but I suspect sales show that people want something with more rust resistance like cruwear with edge retention equal to or greater than s30v. I really like micarta handles so I will likely pick up the micarta pm2, but I prefer the shaman's profile and blade design. The military is still my favorite model with the endura taking 2nd. All that being said, there may yet be the chance for everyone that missed out to get this knife without Spyderco duplicating a sprint. I still think there's room for Spyderco to capitalize more on their sprints, but maybe the limited number (despite popularity) is what makes a Spyderco sprint so collectible.

[BAX229]

the number of new users who joined the forum to get updates told the tale all too well.

Good luck to all if there's another drop of these...

I recently joined this forum because there is more information from the source. Isn't that why we are all here?

[Perhaps_OCD?]

Many of us wanted Cruwear (or PD1, Z-wear) and micarta combination as a regular production model. We are getting it in a PM2, but nothing else so far. I'm still confused as to how it is a good thing to not sell the configuration that the customers want.

I think that's spot on and exactly the problem here. Every collector here probably has a few PM2's. There's been 3 production steel choices for a long time and now a 4th. Bento also has m390 ones periodically. The Shaman fills a different role than a PM2 and is only offered in a steel that is not optimal for that role, so naturally a TON of people want one in something like Cruwear. Spyderco could make 20 more version of a PM2 and it won't satisfy the clear demand for a heavy duty knife in a heavy duty steel.

Fundamentally it's not a good thing to ignore consumer demand, but Spyderco is a quirky company. I would love to see them retain the quirkiness "Lets make a knife that looks like a dog!", "New steel on the market! Time to put it in a knife", but also get better at gauging the demand of certain models / being a business. When Benchmade is offering production models that are literally what Spyderco fans tell Spyderco verbatim that they want, then there's no explanation other than Spyderco isn't as in tuned with what it's customer base (despite having a forum while Benchmade does not).

Cruwear Shaman Alternative:
https://www.benchmade.com/275fe-2-adamas.html

[Rp5]

It just doesn't feel very shiny to create self-imposed scarcity to exploit the FOMO associated with limited editions. Personally I don't love the z-carta, I was just looking for a Shaman to buy. They're sold out everywhere. Why do you need to artificially boost demand for a knife that's sold out everywhere? I would understand if it's rare materials, limited time to work with a designer, etc., but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

[archangel]

Regular production Shamans are sold out everywhere? :confused: I don't think so.

https://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/stor ... rch=Shaman

https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Spyderco-S ... d:Spyderco

And so on...

[steelcity16]

It just doesn't feel very shiny to create self-imposed scarcity to exploit the FOMO associated with limited editions. Personally I don't love the z-carta, I was just looking for a Shaman to buy. They're sold out everywhere. Why do you need to artificially boost demand for a knife that's sold out everywhere? I would understand if it's rare materials, limited time to work with a designer, etc., but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

I don't think they are doing anything nefarious, and if you decide to spend more time on this forum you will realize that. They have a limited production capacity at each of their factories, and this was exacerbated by covid. They really try to listen to customers and make MANY MANY different models to meet the MANY MANY different desires of their customer base. Sure they could make 20K Cruwear Shamans and 20K K390 PM2s and 20K Rex45 Para 3s, but then many of the other cool combos would never get made. They already have a ton of very popular production models and they keep innovating to come up with new ones, improve the ones they have through CQI, and then add many variants of steels, materials, blade shapes, etc. Order a catalog and you will be floored at how many models are in the catalog. No other knife company puts out the variety they do. Add on stuff like the Mule team, seconds sales, forum with participation by the owner, employees, knife designers, etc.

As far as being sold out everywhere, I don't think they could have predicted this. The Shaman started off as a pretty slow seller. Some of the sprints/exclusives like the BHQ M4, St Nicks 4V, Cru-carta Shaman, etc are what drew attention to the model and caused it to gain steam. This Z-wear version was conceived back in 2019, well before base models were selling out. I considered the Shaman a flop at first as I thought S30V was a poor choice of steel and I hate contoured G10.

Anyways, people just need to chill out and have some patience. Wait for the next Micarta version. Wait for the production ones to come back in stock. Or if you can't wait then skip a few coffees and avocado toasts and spend the extra few bucks on eBay or BF. There is something that I REALLY want that I have tried to get one the last few drops and it sells out in under 2 seconds every time. I FINALLY was able to get one last night, but there is a 12 month lead time to produce them so I won't even get it until next year. I don't complain about it. It is what it is. Just be patient, participate in forums more, focus more on helping your forum members rather than complaining, and maybe you will have one sooner than you think.

Can we lock this thread now? Pretty sure these have sold out everywhere now and the negativity is not needed.

[steelcity16]

Regular production Shamans are sold out everywhere? :confused: I don't think so.

https://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/stor ... rch=Shaman

https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Spyderco-S ... d:Spyderco

And so on...

Those are SE only. PE are sold out or pre-order. He is correct on that one. Even on eBay you can't find a PE Shaman under $300.

This happened with the PM2 a few years back as well. All of the production models were sold out everywhere for awhile.

[WRB]

Oso Grande has them (PE Standard Production) **Also wisementrading. I don't think people are looking hard enough.**

[archangel]

Regular production Shamans are sold out everywhere? :confused: I don't think so.

https://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/stor ... rch=Shaman

https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Spyderco-S ... d:Spyderco

And so on...

Those are SE only. PE are sold out or pre-order. He is correct on that one. Even on eBay you can't find a PE Shaman under $300.

This happened with the PM2 a few years back as well. All of the production models were sold out everywhere for awhile.

Ok, thanks for opening my eyes.

[awa54]

the number of new users who joined the forum to get updates told the tale all too well.

Good luck to all if there's another drop of these...

I recently joined this forum because there is more information from the source. Isn't that why we are all here?

I'm all for new blood here, as far as I'm concerned anyone who isn't a troll is welcome!

I was just observing that quite a few new faces have appeared and immediately jumped in on this thread, so that's a pretty strong indication that there's huge interest in this knife and it would be as hotly contested as anything so far...

[Rp5]

It just doesn't feel very shiny to create self-imposed scarcity to exploit the FOMO associated with limited editions. Personally I don't love the z-carta, I was just looking for a Shaman to buy. They're sold out everywhere. Why do you need to artificially boost demand for a knife that's sold out everywhere? I would understand if it's rare materials, limited time to work with a designer, etc., but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

I don't think they are doing anything nefarious, and if you decide to spend more time on this forum you will realize that. They have a limited production capacity at each of their factories, and this was exacerbated by covid. They really try to listen to customers and make MANY MANY different models to meet the MANY MANY different desires of their customer base. Sure they could make 20K Cruwear Shamans and 20K K390 PM2s and 20K Rex45 Para 3s, but then many of the other cool combos would never get made. They already have a ton of very popular production models and they keep innovating to come up with new ones, improve the ones they have through CQI, and then add many variants of steels, materials, blade shapes, etc. Order a catalog and you will be floored at how many models are in the catalog. No other knife company puts out the variety they do. Add on stuff like the Mule team, seconds sales, forum with participation by the owner, employees, knife designers, etc.

As far as being sold out everywhere, I don't think they could have predicted this.

I've read half the posts here for 6 months, I think I have a good feeling for how good Spyderco wants to be as a company. I have a lot of respect for them. I've bought a lot of their products in the last 6 months. They're one of my favorite businesses around right now (Sorry Oso Grande, you didn't make the cut.) It's still an inherently predatory practice to create false scarcity. You think the MSRP/MAP system isn't another business marketing strategy? I can criticize without vilifying, and if they can't take balanced feedback, I'd be surprised.

I just don't think people literally posting "suck it up" and "you'll get over it in a year" is helping anyone. It's probably insulting for people that REALLY wanted this knife, and now, by definition, will NEVER see this exact model made into a production version.

[Snacktime]

A year after not getting a cru wear micarta shaman, I made the decision that I would get a z-wear even at $300+... I really think the cru wear pictures made this the knife to get. By far the best deal out there for good steel and awesome handle material. I actually could have bought a total of 6 z wear shamans so things are moving in the right direction.

I feel for people that missed out, but fleabay has enough at $300 for people to still get one. Really the flippers are only making $20-40 after fees, not as bad as cru wears at $80-100.

[Albertaboyscott]

Bushcraft canada has these in stock! Great company that I've made many purchases from in the past. Not sure if they ship to the usa but here's an opportunity for you canadian guys to grab one!

[Albertaboyscott]

Bushcraft canada now out of stock. Didnt think I'd have a shot at a second one. One for the safe and one for the pocket. Nice

[Perhaps_OCD?]

Congrats man!

[desmodue]

There aren't enough Crucarta/Z wear Shamans because Spyderco didn't make enough.
Period.

So the answer is simple, just make more, right?
It's never been that simple in any industry I ever worked in, I doubt it's the answer here.

I would hazard a guess that Spyderco is at wonderful/awful stage of growth as a business. If they are running at maximum capacity and still having issues with producing enough on-time delivery it means business is great...but it also means making a decision about adding capacity via infrastructure capitalization, This would mean a huge investment for a building, machines and the hardest part: skilled workers.

So why not just do it? It's guaranteed money right? I don't envy any CEO in the position of trying to determine if the current trend will hold long enough to justify mega investments. The pain of slow delivery is much easier to tolerate than the crushing defeat of over capitalization met by a sudden downturn in demand.

Spyderco may have a problem, but selling everything you make faster than you can make it is a good problem to have.

[GarageBoy]

I wonder if Spyderco has reached the point where they can offer only the fancy version of the knife. Like when the shaman came out, most people were indifferent. "How much for g10 and s30V?"

Would non knife geeks be turned off by micarta and cruwear/4v if it was the only version?;

[Perhaps_OCD?]

I wonder if Spyderco has reached the point where they can offer only the fancy version of the knife. Like when the shaman came out, most people were indifferent. "How much for g10 and s30V?"

Would non knife geeks be turned off by micarta and cruwear/4v if it was the only version?;

I think black g10 may be more universally accepted than Micarta, but I don't think they care about the steel. Unless they're like my brother, a former knife geek from the 2000's where s30v was the hotness, and they think s30v is the best steel to have. Haha!

I don't know if the regular Shaman is big seller as is though. $210 is a lot for a knife to most non knife geeks, while us knife geeks think s30v in a $210 knife that's made for hard use is retarded. I wouldn't be surprised if the regular shaman is one of the weakest selling Golden knives. This would explain why they twice incorrectly assumed a Shaman sprint wouldn't sell as well as it did.

I also think the Shaman deserves a better steel even if it raises price a bit. Benchmade is far better at selling $200+ knives to non knife geeks than any other company, and they have switched to Cruwear and 3v in their hard use knives. It will probably help, not hurt, sales.

[Buddafucco]

Wylaco... https://www.wylaco.com/spyderco-c229mpz ... rta-handle