Self defense knife under 3.5”?

[sal]

Hi Jim,

Those are valid points, for sure, and in my opinion, should be part of the conversation. A firearm, in my opinion, is a last resort. Many in the US do not fully appreciate the freedoms we have.

In the UK, as I understand, it is not legal to defend yourself? I hope some of our British folks will chime in. What are folks in Europe expected/permitted to do when being attacked? Isn't it against the law to attack someone? So if the law is being broken when being attacked, should one obey the law and just submit? that seems un-natural. Is the ls the law un-natural?

I realize it is just my opinion, but self defense is a pretty natural response when being attacked? Knives are a pretty natural defense mechanism. for the most part, "All God's critters have knives". they come out of the ends or our limbs, out of of mouth, from the top of our heads, etc.

What do ya'll think?

sal

[vivi]

I think what is legal is not always moral, and what is illegal is not always immoral.

When given the option, the best course of action is to avoid putting yourself in a situation where you need to defend yourself.

Whether that's avoiding certain parts of town, drinking at home instead of going out late for drinks, checking your ego when you get cut off while driving, or ignoring someone insulting you with words obviously looking for a fight.

When that isn't an option? Do what needs to be done to ensure your safety and the safety of innocents, especially loved ones.

But never, ever let your ego put yourself in that situation when you can simply walk away. It is never worth it.

I worked as a bouncer on the weekends as a side job for a long time. Over a decade. I threw zero punches in that time, despite having people attack me with bottles, fists, knives etc. De-escalation techniques are invaluable.

While sometimes you do have to physically remove someone from your property in that line of work, I always operated under the mindset that if things got physical, I failed at my job. There is almost always a way to get someone to leave with words etc.

[Danke]

A knife is a good self defense item since you'll be more likely to have one in more places than some of the other options.

If it's not there you can't use it.

How you defend yourself is pretty tricky. The laws are left grey and the response needs to be proportional. So in theory if someone steps on your foot on the subway you can't stab them in the kidneys. But in practice if you are being attacked it's pretty tough hitting back with only 60% when you feel you're fighting for your life.

I always think the best self defense tool is your brain, but well it's not for everyone.

[jdw]

I think this is an important discussion and in order to contribute I am giving up far more personal information than I will normally divulge on an internet forum. I am state regulator who is not allowed to carry a gun in the course of my duties but I am often placed in very grey situations. Anyone who has advocated for situational awareness or de-escalation is absolutely spot on. There is no greater self defense. I have been in many compromising situations and I have always been able to de-escalate the situation and walk away. I am fortunate in this regard. When I am not allowed to carry a gun I carry a Military because I have used one so often that I know exactly how it will land in my hand and opening it is reflex. If you have muscle memory to a specific knife or a specific self defense method then I would encourage you to use it.

[Naperville]

I chimed in early on with a Delica suggestion but this thread has continued long enough that I will give a self defense opinion instead of a knife opinion. It’s my standard answer when these types of threads come up.

I would forget the knife completely for SD unless a person is extremely well trained. Learn your local carry laws, buy a gun, and then practice shooting it. A firearm requires far less time and training than a knife to learn use effectively for self defense and your attacker doesn’t have to be within arms reach before you are able to respond. JMO.

The legal system absolutely does not care to hear the facts. After you are arrested, charged, you have a choice to make. Plead guilty or lawyer up to the tune of $5k to $15k, and if found guilty, be prepared to go to jail.

I have defended myself and 50% of the time, without expensive litigation you just plead guilty. You hire a lawyer just to make sure your rights are not violated, NOT TO PRESENT A DEFENCE.

I've dabbled in a dozen martial arts, 5 of them escrima, arnis, and kali knife arts, and have drawn a knife in self defense to my hip. Never slashed or thrust a weapon of any kind at anyone. THEY NEVER HEAR MY BACKGROUND. You would have to be making a heck of a lot of money to go to trial. So, I have a record.

THE SYSTEM
- multi tier
- not colorblind
- some "colors" get preferential treatment sometimes and other times they get screwed
- good luck with no attorney at all. I've been told to my face by my court appointed attorney that he would go against my Bill of Rights, and not defend me, because he had a job lined up in the prosecutor's office, and if I wanted a lawyer to borrow money and hire one.

ETHICS? THIS SYSTEM?

[sal]

This is great stuff. Thanx much for sharing your thoughts and experiences. Perhaps this thread will aid all of us to have the best, best solution to the concept.

sal

[sal]

So far we have;

1. Situational awareness
2. De-escalate using the best weapon, your brain and your mouth.

So I have changed my list of priorities, thanx.

sal

[JoviAl]

Hi Jim,

Those are valid points, for sure, and in my opinion, should be part of the conversation. A firearm, in my opinion, is a last resort. Many in the US do not fully appreciate the freedoms we have.

In the UK, as I understand, it is not legal to defend yourself? I hope some of our British folks will chime in. What are folks in Europe expected/permitted to do when being attacked? Isn't it against the law to attack someone? So if the law is being broken when being attacked, should one obey the law and just submit? that seems un-natural. Is the ls the law un-natural?

I realize it is just my opinion, but self defense is a pretty natural response when being attacked? Knives are a pretty natural defense mechanism. for the most part, "All God's critters have knives". they come out of the ends or our limbs, out of of mouth, from the top of our heads, etc.

What do ya'll think?

sal

I can chime in on this one being British. We are allowed to defend ourselves with our hands with ‘reasonable force’. No ‘weapons’ at all, but we have an ingrained cultural history of alcohol (and more recently drug) fuelled violence in our streets. The saying goes “we’re going to exercise our right to get paralytic and fight!”, which is quite unpleasant to be on the receiving end of on your way home from work or whatever. As a rule we generally try to give as good as we get then run away from the downed assailant. I’ve had to use hospitalising force three times in my life (I’m a mediocre practitioner of Japanese Ju Jitsu), each time in response to what I considered a serious threat to my wellbeing (Stanley knife, baseball bat and a brick respectively). I can confidently say those people weren’t getting up in a hurry and would definitely need a doctor in their near future, but they were dislocation and tearing injuries, nothing that would kill someone. I don’t know how other Brits navigate those situations but I have never had legal recourse brought against me from those incidents, nor have either of my brothers or any of my friends, likely in the main because the assailants were known to the police themselves and didn’t report it. Britain is not as friendly as it is made out to be in films - Hugh Grant is the exception to the rule, not the rule.

[RustyIron]

2. De-escalate using the best weapon, your brain and your mouth.

Brain, mouth, and FEET.
If you can walk away or run away, do it.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I do not want to derail this thread but it is frustrating and upsetting to know that the "system" does not automatically side with the law abiding self protecting person. I know there were no good old days but at least in the Western world in past decades unless your attacker was one of the local good old boys or rich and powerful, generally the judges and courts sided with you, the law abiding defender.

Can things be returned to that or is the deck stacked in favor of the violent predatory criminal instead of the defender?

This is an important discussion. Naperville and sal, if one is cornered and they feel their life is in danger, police officers have told me the person haa a legally protected right in all US states to use lethal force to save their life or the life of another. Are you saying that is technically true but in reality they may still end up paying legal fees and even worse the human judges etc may be prejudice to them?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Do you all think a large serrated hawkbill like the Spyder Hawk or Byrd hawkbill would be enough just to scare away an attacker by sight alone because they know what it can do to them?

[Scandi Grind]

Do you all think a large serrated hawkbill like the Spyder Hawk or Byrd hawkbill would be enough just to scare away an attacker by sight alone because they know what it can do to them?

That depends on the person entirely and will never be consistent, especially if drugs or alcohol are involved. Intimidation is a tool you can use in self defense, but it can never be relied on. If you don't know how to use the weapon you are thinking about brandishing, then don't brandish it, whether that be a knife or a gun.

[ladybug93]

Do you all think a large serrated hawkbill like the Spyder Hawk or Byrd hawkbill would be enough just to scare away an attacker by sight alone because they know what it can do to them?

i wanted to buy a laser to put on my handgun and told my wife that people are often more likely to stop when they can see the bullet will hit them. she then suggested i just get a laser pointer. that's what this makes me think of. it's like disciplining children... you have to be willing and able to make good on your threat.

[Naperville]

I do not want to derail this thread but it is frustrating and upsetting to know that the "system" does not automatically side with the law abiding self protecting person. I know there were no good old days but at least in the Western world in past decades unless your attacker was one of the local good old boys or rich and powerful, generally the judges and courts sided with you, the law abiding defender.

Can things be returned to that or is the deck stacked in favor of the violent predatory criminal instead of the defender?

This is an important discussion. Naperville and sal, if one is cornered and they feel their life is in danger, police officers have told me the person haa a legally protected right in all US states to use lethal force to save their life or the life of another. Are you saying that is technically true but in reality they may still end up paying legal fees and even worse the human judges etc may be prejudice to them?

I do not like doing or participating in the act of self defense especially at the age of 64. Not that I was ever fond of it, except possibly between the age of 22 and 52 when I was physically capable of self defense. Self defense is at best a young adult to middle age adult activity.

Training in martial arts at an established school was great.

I'd say what the law says and reality are incongruent with each other.

IT'S ALL LIES. You cannot use self defense, nor can you call out an employer on the Internet for ripping you off for $30,000US. If you defend yourself my suggestion is walk away early in the altercation because if you remain you are getting arrested. This isnt the wild west. If ripped off by an employer in the corporatocracy formerly known as the USA just walk away or sue, or the FBI will come after you.

[ChrisinHove]

In the UK, as I understand, it is not legal to defend yourself? I hope some of our British folks will chime in. What are folks in Europe expected/permitted to do when being attacked? Isn't it against the law to attack someone? So if the law is being broken when being attacked, should one obey the law and just submit? that seems un-natural. ls the law un-natural?

Self defence is lawful in the UK. However, any action has to be proportionate :

“It is both good law and good sense that a man who is attacked may defend himself. It is both good law and good sense that he may do, but only do, what is reasonably necessary.”

[terryjohnpratt]

Gun Owner

EVERY safety class i took and i took many over the years I was ALWAYS instructed my best self defense was AVOIDING A POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS SITUATION. Pepper GEL is easier to use than a knife, no need to be near the threat to delay or stop.
If it fails, then come your gun or in her case a knife. TRY to not get to this position.

This is off topic, kind of off topic, but her safety is my desire. God Bless.

[Mad Mac]

The Philippine grip championed by Michael Janich
may be more important than the choice of knives.

His videos convinced me to buy a Yojimbo 2.
But then I realized I could use a Philippine grip
for almost any knife.

Even a little slip joint Kiwi
legal everywhere
held firmly in a Philippine grip
becomes a terrifying counter threat.

But I could be wrong. I often am.

[Scandi Grind]

The Philippine grip championed by Michael Janich
may be more important than the choice of knives.

His videos convinced me to buy a Yojimbo 2.
But then I realized I could use a Philippine grip
for almost any knife.

Even a little slip joint Kiwi
legal everywhere
held firmly in a Philippine grip
becomes a terrifying counter threat.

But I could be wrong. I often am.

I've heard of the Philippine grip, but don't actually know what it is. Is it easy to describe?

[Danke]

The Philippine grip championed by Michael Janich
may be more important than the choice of knives.

His videos convinced me to buy a Yojimbo 2.
But then I realized I could use a Philippine grip
for almost any knife.

Even a little slip joint Kiwi
legal everywhere
held firmly in a Philippine grip
becomes a terrifying counter threat.

But I could be wrong. I often am.

I've heard of the Philippine grip, but don't actually know what it is. Is it easy to describe?

There's probably a more recent video but not much has changed in either hands or knives since this.

[Jim Malone]

I can only speak for belgium but there are a few types of knives that are illegal. To carry the non illegal knives you need a "valid" reason. A judge decides what a valid reason is. So a butcher carrying a butchers knife in his butchershop could be a valid reason, a fisherman carrying a knife fishing could be a valid reason. But a judge needs to decide. That makes carrying any knife quite tricky.

But they also included a loophole. I will quote in Dutch the actual law.

Voorwerpen en stoffen die niet als wapen zijn ontworpen, maar die werden omgevormd, gewijzigd of vermengd om als wapen te worden gebruikt en] waarvan, gegeven de concrete omstandigheden, duidelijk is dat degene die ze voorhanden heeft, draagt of vervoert, ze wenst te gebruiken voor het toebrengen van lichamelijk letsel aan of het bedreigen van personen.

Translation
objects and substances not designed as a weapon, but which have been transformed, modified or mixed to be used as a weapon and] of which, given the concrete circumstances, it is clear that the person who possesses, carries or transports them wishes to use them for causing bodily harm to or threatening persons.

So they made everything a possible weapon. When they find anything on you the police might think could be used in the future as a weapon they can arrest you and a judge will decide.
The rules of self defense state that the level of violence needs to be appropriate to the attack, and there needs to be no other possible way of escape.
We had a trial a few months ago where the prosecution tried to make a murder charge on a civilian because he stabbed someone in his kitchen with a kitchen knife when the " victim " kicked in his front door and attacked him!
The guy was found not guilty only because he couldn´t fled his kitchen nor did he have his cellphone.
Otherwise you should call the police and flee the scene.
In Belgian law the police will protect everyone and self defense is something that is not needed.
There is NO legal way to carry anything for self defense.