H-2 vs. H-1

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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ladybug93
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#61

Post by ladybug93 »

cjk wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:08 am
Do the H1 fans have anything against LC200N? It seems like a vast improvement over H1 to me. I was thinking that demand for H1 would eventually taper off and die out. I am surprised that it's getting a replacement at all.
it's not that i have anything against lc200n... i really like it. in my experience though, i've had spots show up on lc200n while i never have with h1. not enough to be any kind of an issue, but it happened. also, i've had lc200n serrations roll on materials that h1 devoured without issue. again, not a huge deal, but i found h1 to be superior in that regard. i also really like the more robust hollow grind that gives a thin edge, but a thick blade all the way to the tip because i see a salt knife as a knife to use harder than i would other folding knives. (for me, it's less about ocean use - although i do that as well - and more about having a maintenance free cutting tool always ready for emergencies, which is why i prefer se also.)

my salts...
h1:
pacific salt se
dragonfly 2 se
ladybug hawkbill se

lc200n:
native salt pe
caribbean sheepsfoot se
spydiechef

honestly though, the differences are mostly negligible. i find that i carry different models more based on activity and comfort than i do based on their capabilities. my pacific salt and my caribbean are basically interchangeable in my use, but the pacific salt is better in my waistband in the water or on runs. the caribbean is fine in my waistband any other time, but i also carry it if i'm only going to carry one knife on me for the day because the overall build is more robust.

i like both. i hate to see h1 go away. hopefully h2 will be just as great as h1. it would be nice if it's cheaper too, since we're being told it's easier to produce.
keep your knife sharp and your focus sharper.
current collection:
C191GP, C36GMCBK2, C11ZFRDBBK, C267BK, C36MCW2, C258YL, C253GBBK, C258GFBL, C101GBBK2, C11GYW, C11FWNB20CV, C101GBN15V2, C101GODFDE2, C60GGY, C149G, C189, C101GBN2, MT35, C211TI, C242CF, C217GSSF, C101BN2, C85G2, C91BBK, C142G, C122GBBK, LBK, LYL3HB, C193, C28YL2, C11ZPGYD, C41YL5, C252G, C130G, K08BK, PLKIT1
spyderco steels:
M398, H2, CPM 20CV, CPM 15V, CTS 204P, CPM CRUWEAR, CPM S30V, N690Co, M390, CPM MagnaCut, LC200N, CTS XHP, H1, 8Cr13MoV, GIN-1, CTS BD1, VG-10, VG-10/Damascus, 440C, MBS-26
vivi
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#62

Post by vivi »

cjk wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:08 am
Do the H1 fans have anything against LC200N? It seems like a vast improvement over H1 to me. I was thinking that demand for H1 would eventually taper off and die out. I am surprised that it's getting a replacement at all.
I like both but IMO the idea that LC200N is a clear upgrade over H1 isn't based on truth.

H1 is cheaper. It's faster to grind. It is more impervious to corrosion. It's tougher.

LC200N has better edge holding and is easier to full flat grind in the factory.

It's worse than H1 in more areas than it's better.

Either one could be the last steel I ever buy. I like and use both. But they each have their pros and cons.
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#63

Post by cjk »

vivi wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:05 am
cjk wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:08 am
Do the H1 fans have anything against LC200N? It seems like a vast improvement over H1 to me. I was thinking that demand for H1 would eventually taper off and die out. I am surprised that it's getting a replacement at all.
I like both but IMO the idea that LC200N is a clear upgrade over H1 isn't based on truth.

H1 is cheaper. It's faster to grind. It is more impervious to corrosion. It's tougher.

LC200N has better edge holding and is easier to full flat grind in the factory.

It's worse than H1 in more areas than it's better.

Either one could be the last steel I ever buy. I like and use both. But they each have their pros and cons.
Hi Vivi, do you find that you can sharpen H1 at a narrower angle than LC200N due to H1's better toughness? Will LC200N take the same 10 degrees per side? I have read a number of threads and comments about your sharpening method for H1. Call me "H1 interested". I have LC200N knives, but none in H1.
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#64

Post by huyfishin »

I was excited to see an announcement on a new steel which could potentially be an upgrade.

This thread makes me question if this is an upgrade. Number one also sounds better then number 2 lol

hummer had the H1 and its was badass.

Then they made the hummer h2 and hummer h3.
Then they went bankrupt.

Just sayin.haha
I Play With Salt Knives / instagram huyfishin
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Netherend
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#65

Post by Netherend »

metaphoricalsimile wrote:
Tue May 31, 2022 7:42 pm


Spyderco needed to capture the under-sea-volcanic-vent-diver market probably
Ah that was a good two minute chuckle
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Evil D
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#66

Post by Evil D »

vivi wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:50 am
Evil D wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 2:05 am
ZrowsN1s wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:16 am
We can't assume that just because the manufacturer is no longer making H-1 that they would give their blessing to someone else using their formula. Changes may have been necessary.

And even if they weren't.....

We can't assume there's going to be some big trade off in wear resistance or edge retention for the extra corrosion resistance. What if there isn't? What if it's just better?

Im excited to try this when it comes out, if my price for optimism is future disappointment so be it.



There really is quite a lot of doom and gloom over a steel that most people could care less about anyway. It's a case of suddenly wanting something because you're told you can't have it anymore. I know there are definitely some loyalists here for H1 (I'm one of them) but even if H2 performance just matches H1 I don't think the knife world will lose any sleep over it.....
:rofl



Yes yes Vivi, I know it's your favorite. I don't mean to sound like I'm crapping on your parade here, but you must know that H1 is not selling knives like other steels and it never will. We may have even a couple hundred loyal H1 fans here on the forum (more like couple dozen) but that's a very small slice of Spyderco's sales. I suspect the only reason they even bothered with H2 is to offer a steel they can continue to say is 100% rust proof and not just 99% rust proof, otherwise MagnaCut is going to dominate sales for all but the most severe corrosion applications, and I have a feeling that MagnaCut is just a sneak peek at a whole new generation of steels.
~David
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#67

Post by vivi »

Evil D wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:08 am
vivi wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:50 am
Evil D wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 2:05 am
ZrowsN1s wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:16 am
We can't assume that just because the manufacturer is no longer making H-1 that they would give their blessing to someone else using their formula. Changes may have been necessary.

And even if they weren't.....

We can't assume there's going to be some big trade off in wear resistance or edge retention for the extra corrosion resistance. What if there isn't? What if it's just better?

Im excited to try this when it comes out, if my price for optimism is future disappointment so be it.



There really is quite a lot of doom and gloom over a steel that most people could care less about anyway. It's a case of suddenly wanting something because you're told you can't have it anymore. I know there are definitely some loyalists here for H1 (I'm one of them) but even if H2 performance just matches H1 I don't think the knife world will lose any sleep over it.....
:rofl



Yes yes Vivi, I know it's your favorite. I don't mean to sound like I'm crapping on your parade here, but you must know that H1 is not selling knives like other steels and it never will. We may have even a couple hundred loyal H1 fans here on the forum (more like couple dozen) but that's a very small slice of Spyderco's sales. I suspect the only reason they even bothered with H2 is to offer a steel they can continue to say is 100% rust proof and not just 99% rust proof, otherwise MagnaCut is going to dominate sales for all but the most severe corrosion applications, and I have a feeling that MagnaCut is just a sneak peek at a whole new generation of steels.
My laughing smiley was intended to agree with your last post. It's funny to me seeing all these comments about a steel most folks ignore.
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Evil D
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#68

Post by Evil D »

vivi wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:41 am
Evil D wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:08 am
vivi wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:50 am
Evil D wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 2:05 am





There really is quite a lot of doom and gloom over a steel that most people could care less about anyway. It's a case of suddenly wanting something because you're told you can't have it anymore. I know there are definitely some loyalists here for H1 (I'm one of them) but even if H2 performance just matches H1 I don't think the knife world will lose any sleep over it.....
:rofl



Yes yes Vivi, I know it's your favorite. I don't mean to sound like I'm crapping on your parade here, but you must know that H1 is not selling knives like other steels and it never will. We may have even a couple hundred loyal H1 fans here on the forum (more like couple dozen) but that's a very small slice of Spyderco's sales. I suspect the only reason they even bothered with H2 is to offer a steel they can continue to say is 100% rust proof and not just 99% rust proof, otherwise MagnaCut is going to dominate sales for all but the most severe corrosion applications, and I have a feeling that MagnaCut is just a sneak peek at a whole new generation of steels.
My laughing smiley was intended to agree with your last post. It's funny to me seeing all these comments about a steel most folks ignore.


Ah sorry I mistook it as I offended you.


Anyway, I have faith that H2 will come through. The fallout if it doesn't will definitely be felt and I think Spyderco are smart enough to see that coming and wouldn't risk it if H2 wasn't at least up to the task.
~David
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#69

Post by vivi »

I'll be comparing the two ASAP with my typical sharpening style.
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#70

Post by Mushroom »

I have nothing against LC200N or H2. Personally, I say I want more H1 knives because it’s a huge part of Spyderco’s history and now it’s going away. I simply want more of it in my collection to better represent that part of their history.

That said, I’m very open and eager to try H2. I’m guessing I personally notice much of a difference between it and H1 but that doesn’t mean I don’t want to try.
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#71

Post by Accutronman »

H-2 will probably scratch the same as H-1. Give me LC200N any day
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#72

Post by Spicy Suplex »

vivi wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:54 am
I'll be comparing the two ASAP with my typical sharpening style.
Now that I've calmed down after yesterday's initial news - this right here is what I'm looking forward to the most. My Salt 2 H1 PE only gets a coarse edge after all the reading I've done thanks to y'all
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#73

Post by metaphoricalsimile »

jwbnyc wrote:
Tue May 31, 2022 2:38 pm
Seems like neither whatever H series steel, or LC200N, will survive a widespread introduction of Magnacut, if it continues to perform to expectation.

You could lower the HRC on Magnacut and still have better edge retention, with (one would expect) better toughness and improved corrosion resistance, wouldn’t you?

Interesting times.
I just want to point out that both H1 (and forseeably H2) and LC200N have an edge in raw toughness over Magnacut, although neither will achieve the overall edge stability of Magnacut.
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#74

Post by vivi »

cjk wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:22 am
vivi wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:05 am
cjk wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:08 am
Do the H1 fans have anything against LC200N? It seems like a vast improvement over H1 to me. I was thinking that demand for H1 would eventually taper off and die out. I am surprised that it's getting a replacement at all.
I like both but IMO the idea that LC200N is a clear upgrade over H1 isn't based on truth.

H1 is cheaper. It's faster to grind. It is more impervious to corrosion. It's tougher.

LC200N has better edge holding and is easier to full flat grind in the factory.

It's worse than H1 in more areas than it's better.

Either one could be the last steel I ever buy. I like and use both. But they each have their pros and cons.
Hi Vivi, do you find that you can sharpen H1 at a narrower angle than LC200N due to H1's better toughness? Will LC200N take the same 10 degrees per side? I have read a number of threads and comments about your sharpening method for H1. Call me "H1 interested". I have LC200N knives, but none in H1.
LC200N is still tougher than most stainless steels and does pretty well with thin edges.

I have seen LC200N take damage a little more easily than H1 at the thin angles I run, but not to the point I needed to reprofile the apex to a thicker angle.

I also saw a LC200N SE Pacific Salt chip bad enough while reprofiling that I stopped reprofiling it before it was cleanly apexed. Never had that happen with H1.

LC200N is tough enough for my pocket knife uses, but having used both steels side by side I can say that H1 resists damage better, and sharpens out faster when it does roll.

I would personally opt for H1 in a serrated Pacific Salt, and in PE it's a toss up for me. The FFG LC's cut very nicely, but the H1's are tougher and have slightly better opening / closing action due to the blade weight.
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#75

Post by Airlsee »

Does replacing H1 with H2 not have something to do with Japanese makers preferring to use Japanese steel, not to mention the logistics cost?

I assumed this was the case and the reason we aren't seeing H1 replaced by LC200N or Magnacut the way some seem to expect.
So it goes.
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#76

Post by jwbnyc »

metaphoricalsimile wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 12:15 pm
jwbnyc wrote:
Tue May 31, 2022 2:38 pm
Seems like neither whatever H series steel, or LC200N, will survive a widespread introduction of Magnacut, if it continues to perform to expectation.

You could lower the HRC on Magnacut and still have better edge retention, with (one would expect) better toughness and improved corrosion resistance, wouldn’t you?

Interesting times.
I just want to point out that both H1 (and forseeably H2) and LC200N have an edge in raw toughness over Magnacut, although neither will achieve the overall edge stability of Magnacut.
I should have been clearer. I meant better toughness and corrosion resistance against itself, say 60hrc versus 63hrc Magnacut.

But you do make a good point regarding H1/LC200N toughness.
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#77

Post by Scandi Grind »

Airlsee wrote: Does replacing H1 with H2 not have something to do with Japanese makers preferring to use Japanese steel, not to mention the logistics cost?

I assumed this was the case and the reason we aren't seeing H1 replaced by LC200N or Magnacut the way some seem to expect.

Good point. I imagine the Japanese models would want to keep using local steel.
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#78

Post by cjk »

vivi wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:16 pm
cjk wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:22 am
vivi wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:05 am
cjk wrote:
Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:08 am
Do the H1 fans have anything against LC200N? It seems like a vast improvement over H1 to me. I was thinking that demand for H1 would eventually taper off and die out. I am surprised that it's getting a replacement at all.
I like both but IMO the idea that LC200N is a clear upgrade over H1 isn't based on truth.

H1 is cheaper. It's faster to grind. It is more impervious to corrosion. It's tougher.

LC200N has better edge holding and is easier to full flat grind in the factory.

It's worse than H1 in more areas than it's better.

Either one could be the last steel I ever buy. I like and use both. But they each have their pros and cons.
Hi Vivi, do you find that you can sharpen H1 at a narrower angle than LC200N due to H1's better toughness? Will LC200N take the same 10 degrees per side? I have read a number of threads and comments about your sharpening method for H1. Call me "H1 interested". I have LC200N knives, but none in H1.
LC200N is still tougher than most stainless steels and does pretty well with thin edges.

I have seen LC200N take damage a little more easily than H1 at the thin angles I run, but not to the point I needed to reprofile the apex to a thicker angle.

I also saw a LC200N SE Pacific Salt chip bad enough while reprofiling that I stopped reprofiling it before it was cleanly apexed. Never had that happen with H1.

LC200N is tough enough for my pocket knife uses, but having used both steels side by side I can say that H1 resists damage better, and sharpens out faster when it does roll.

I would personally opt for H1 in a serrated Pacific Salt, and in PE it's a toss up for me. The FFG LC's cut very nicely, but the H1's are tougher and have slightly better opening / closing action due to the blade weight.

Hey Vivi, thanks a bunch for that!!
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#79

Post by Netherend »

The whole end of H1 thing is really making me want to pick up an Aqua Salt while I still can
Just one more knife...
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Re: H-2 vs. H-1

#80

Post by Netherend »

The whole end of H1 thing is really making me want to pick up an Aqua Salt while I still can Whoops double posted
Just one more knife...
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