Spyderco prices are pushing me right out of my hobby.

[jtoler_9]

Interesting thread. I feel it also. Last year I bought about any Spydie that caught my eye. This year I won't be doing the same. I don't have anything bad to say about where the new models pricing is at. I look at it as it is what it is. I think like any market eventually things find an equilibrium. If the new Spydies are overpriced then they naturally won't sell all that well and things will adjust to meet the specific demands of that market. I will say it is surprising where people seem to come up with the funds to drop on so many very nice knives. It would be an interesting study to see if the credit or debit was used.
If the new stuff is out of reach. Buy a truckload of Byrds. :)

[gdwtvb]

Gee, I really hope this doesn't come off sounding as bad as I think it might....well that has never stopped me before so here we go.

Well see it's like this...well maybe if I say it another way....screw it. Grow up. Here's a couple points. And this is purely my own opinion that I am fully aware will not be universally shared.

First: That's what adulthood is, never having everything you want AND DEALING WITH IT IN A POSITIVE WAY! God didn't give you the unalienable right to exists and collect every single bauble you find pretty at a price that doesn't cause hardship. If you want it, and can afford it, Great! Buy it. Post pictures and reviews so I can enjoy it too and live vicariously through you. If enough people ante up, the price goes down, new manufacturing processes are discovered, quality goes up, and we all benefit. (Your grandfather would be amazed at how wonderful of a knife a plain run of the mill Delica is.) possible positive coping skills for coping with this reality: get a better paying job, even if that means bettering your education. Start an in home business. Find a hobby that is enjoyable to you that you earn income on.

Second, is collecting knives really a hobby? I'm not out to start a long discussion or derail this thread but I've always considered a hobby to be some sort of act of work with visible results. Like making knives. or maybe repairing/refurbishing knives. In my mind a hobby is something that a person would like to do as an occupation but it doesn't make as much money as their current occupation. (gardening, leatherwork, writing, painting, restoring cars, making knives, jewlery, whatever.) This is different from sports, (golf, tennis, running, etc.) or collecting.

I don't care for the class warfare stuff. Always been rich people, always been poor. Unfortunately it will probably always be that way. The US is one of the only places on earth where it is possible to shed poverty and become wealthy. To do it isn't that terribly hard, work hard, spend as little as possible, don't spend money you don't have, (No credit cards!!!) and save and invest the rest. yes, it's more work, and you might have to do things like reclassify things like cable tv from necessities into luxuries, put off or even avoid buying things you might want, gasp, but it can be done. Not common in our instant gratification society, but possible.

Grizz

[tr4022]

Gee, I really hope this doesn't come off sounding as bad as I think it might....well that has never stopped me before so here we go.

Well see it's like this...well maybe if I say it another way....screw it. Grow up. Here's a couple points. And this is purely my own opinion that I am fully aware will not be universally shared.

First: That's what adulthood is, never having everything you want AND DEALING WITH IT IN A POSITIVE WAY! God didn't give you the unalienable right to exists and collect every single bauble you find pretty at a price that doesn't cause hardship. If you want it, and can afford it, Great! Buy it. Post pictures and reviews so I can enjoy it too and live vicariously through you. If enough people ante up, the price goes down, new manufacturing processes are discovered, quality goes up, and we all benefit. (Your grandfather would be amazed at how wonderful of a knife a plain run of the mill Delica is.) possible positive coping skills for coping with this reality: get a better paying job, even if that means bettering your education. Start an in home business. Find a hobby that is enjoyable to you that you earn income on.



Grizz

[high, whiny voice] But, Grizz, we GOTTA get our Spydie on! :p

[Fred Sanford]

This topic pops up from time to time and whenever it does, more often than not it is a sensitive issue and a hot topic that tends to put people on the defensive. Of course there are a fair number of models under $100. Pulling up numbers, search results and prices from any given dealer would support this. But when you take into account that 20 or so are Delicas & Enduras and another approx. 30 are UKPK's, that "under $100" figure changes drastically.

I agree, Jack. There are plenty of modestly priced, very high quality Spydies available. Like the Centofante 3 I just bought myself for Father's Day. What a great little knife for a little over $50.

But I think the OP is right that Spyderco seems to be focusing on higher end new models this year. Now, as you say, I assume they are very reasonably priced for the materials, etc.----I don't think Spyderco is trying to gouge its customers, either---but it's still kind of frustrating for Spydie fans on a budget who already have all the Delicas and Enduras they need and are interested in the new stuff coming out.

Tod

Exactly. The Delica, Endura, FRN UKPK (which I'm not interested in), Centofante 3 and 4 have all been available for a few years and I don't need/want any more. :) I know they are an awesome value. No doubt about that.

[Fred Sanford]

Gee, I really hope this doesn't come off sounding as bad as I think it might....well that has never stopped me before so here we go.

Well see it's like this...well maybe if I say it another way....screw it. Grow up. Here's a couple points. And this is purely my own opinion that I am fully aware will not be universally shared.

First: That's what adulthood is, never having everything you want AND DEALING WITH IT IN A POSITIVE WAY! God didn't give you the unalienable right to exists and collect every single bauble you find pretty at a price that doesn't cause hardship. If you want it, and can afford it, Great! Buy it. Post pictures and reviews so I can enjoy it too and live vicariously through you. If enough people ante up, the price goes down, new manufacturing processes are discovered, quality goes up, and we all benefit. (Your grandfather would be amazed at how wonderful of a knife a plain run of the mill Delica is.) possible positive coping skills for coping with this reality: get a better paying job, even if that means bettering your education. Start an in home business. Find a hobby that is enjoyable to you that you earn income on.

Second, is collecting knives really a hobby? I'm not out to start a long discussion or derail this thread but I've always considered a hobby to be some sort of act of work with visible results. Like making knives. or maybe repairing/refurbishing knives. In my mind a hobby is something that a person would like to do as an occupation but it doesn't make as much money as their current occupation. (gardening, leatherwork, writing, painting, restoring cars, making knives, jewlery, whatever.) This is different from sports, (golf, tennis, running, etc.) or collecting.

I don't care for the class warfare stuff. Always been rich people, always been poor. Unfortunately it will probably always be that way. The US is one of the only places on earth where it is possible to shed poverty and become wealthy. To do it isn't that terribly hard, work hard, spend as little as possible, don't spend money you don't have, (No credit cards!!!) and save and invest the rest. yes, it's more work, and you might have to do things like reclassify things like cable tv from necessities into luxuries, put off or even avoid buying things you might want, gasp, but it can be done. Not common in our instant gratification society, but possible.

Grizz

Except for I'm not the instant gratification type, I have no credit card debt because I paid it all off about 5 years ago. I have 1 car note.

Your post is great, but it's WAAAAY easier said than done. I'm a prime example of getting a better education and bettering myself. I am now the network administrator of the Cleveland Browns. I used to make minimum wage at a burger place. I'm also 39 years old. I already got a "better job" and I make good money. I also don't have a flat panel TV yet. Nope, not me. I have ZERO Hi-Def in my house. I have a 27" Low Def TV in the living room. I don't have an XBOX or Playstation or a Wii either.

You might say.......been there done that my friend, and I've got about 12 T-shirts.

[c.joe]

Imagine working in walk-in retail selling Spydercos.

I would love to bring the Sage 2 in to share with the local community but it retails $274.95. I want to bring in the Lionspy too to see how it sells.. Too bad it retails $499.95.

What also sickens me is seeing the online retailers selling knives a few dollars above cost. As much as I love low prices, it does take a lot of value out of the knife and hurts the remaining retail walk-in stores. But it seems this is what they have to do now to get the products to sell at a reasonable price.

[FroOchie]

Imagine working in walk-in retail selling Spydercos.

I would love to bring the Sage 2 in to share with the local community but it retails $274.95. I want to bring in the Lionspy too to see how it sells.. Too bad it retails $499.95.

What also sickens me is seeing the online retailers selling knives a few dollars above cost. As much as I love low prices, it does take a lot of value out of the knife and hurts the remaining retail walk-in stores. But it seems this is what they have to do now to get the products to sell at a reasonable price.

Who pays retail for every day finds though? You know the person buying the knife is going to try to negotiate the price, especially with how much information is on the net.

[PatCatMan]

IMO anyone who would pay retail at a walk-in location has more money than they know what to do with it.
With all the online stores and very reasonable customer service, most have free shipping codes and easy return policies - why would you spend soooo much more? Other than the impulse purchase.
I have purchased a few knives - Spydies as a matter of fact - from my local knife dealer. But we worked out a fair price - I mean I didn't have to wait, and he stocks a multiple selection - and I want to support local business - but I know nobody that pays MSRP if they are an educated consumer.
I like to handle the knife before purchase - just like anyone would - but I'm not paying more than $30 for that.
I don't know how the small shops can do it for the small margins - but for me - I can't justify my purchase on that concern.
Just my thoughts.

Pat

[c.joe]

Who pays retail for every day finds though? You know the person buying the knife is going to try to negotiate the price, especially with how much information is on the net.

That's not my point. My point is, online retailers have to make their prices so low in order to have the knives at a reasonable price. That means if profiting $20 per knife is what it takes, then that is what they will have to do. Paying full MSRP in a walk-in store should only be at most $30 more like PatCatMan mentioned. Not close to double like it is now. I am simply supporting David's first post, not telling you folks to boycott online retailers.

[DRKBC]

The current economy is such that everything we purchase is coming under extra scrutiny. Spyderco builds a great quality product packed with value for money and it is on the leading edge of design. However at the same time my (our?) purchasing power is decreasing on a daily basis. I hope that will change for us all but it could take a while to get there. But that said a company must make a decision, they either continue to push the envelope and hope that they please their loyal csutomer base with new designs while of course continuing to attract new clientelle. Or, they can keep turning out the same old tried and true models (paid for long ago) likely a more profitable product to produce but at what cost? perhaps having existing clients loose interest and also likely not attracting new clients

But if you choose to be a leader it's hard to to be on the cutting edge of R&D and do it at a loss, at least for any length of time. So, whats the answer? For me I like what Spyderco's doing and I hope my income keeps pace with it but to date that hasn't been the case, so as a result (in my case anyway) I buy what I like but ... with less frequency.

In this economy I think you just keep doing what you are doing and hope like **** it turns around for us all so that we can have enough disposable to feel comfortable about spending again. Hopefully sooner rather than later!

[Ankerson]

Imagine working in walk-in retail selling Spydercos.

I would love to bring the Sage 2 in to share with the local community but it retails $274.95. I want to bring in the Lionspy too to see how it sells.. Too bad it retails $499.95.

What also sickens me is seeing the online retailers selling knives a few dollars above cost. As much as I love low prices, it does take a lot of value out of the knife and hurts the remaining retail walk-in stores. But it seems this is what they have to do now to get the products to sell at a reasonable price.

If people are spending $500 at a retail store they aren't buying knives....

They are buying the latest electronic gadget or whatever the latest fad might be that will go out of date before they walk out of the store with it.

For those of us who like knives at least they hold their value if we buy quality. That other stuff people spend money on loses value so fast they might as well take their money and burn it.

That's not saying knives are a smart investment, all I am saying is one can get most of their money back if not all of it most of the time.

As far as prices go they are what they are and that goes for everything we buy and the choice is up to us.

[Joshua J.]

...is collecting knives really a hobby?

Does a carpenter "collect" hammers? Does a mechanic "collect" wrenches?

I read a bit about carpentry recently, and was shocked at the number of planes that are out there. Dozens of tools that do almost exactly the same thing, and yet to the carpenter there's enough difference to justify having them, even if just one or two could "get the job done" (those people probably rival the knife community in their peculiarity).
The difference is that "cutting stuff" is such a basic task that most people wouldn't think of it as something you get good at, "making one piece into two", how complicated is that?
There's enough discussion about it that I think it counts as a hobby.

[tikkidaddy]

I Absolutely agree...I save up too...and when I hafta use it...himalayan imports 18 in ak is the 1st chopper outa the box...otherwise i pull out whatever pocketknife i miss...

[The Deacon]

That's not my point. My point is, online retailers have to make their prices so low in order to have the knives at a reasonable price. That means if profiting $20 per knife is what it takes, then that is what they will have to do. Paying full MSRP in a walk-in store should only be at most $30 more like PatCatMan mentioned. Not close to double like it is now. I am simply supporting David's first post, not telling you folks to boycott online retailers.

But how can Spyderco make things fairer for B&M dealers without making prices that consumers pay even higher than they are now, unless you assume they're making excessive profit on each knife, and can afford to simultaneously cut wholesale prices, cut MSRPs, and insist all dealers sell at full MSRP?

[dbcad]

My last word on this topic......Spyderco knives are not too expensive. Luxurys such as this knife hobby have been and are increasingly difficult for most non wealthy folks to maintain due to the economic climate. I've tried to get at the core reason for the economic climate in previous posts to this thread.

I applaud all who have been able to do better for themselves during these tougher times.

I accept that a lot of material goods seem more expensive now. This is a function of an economic climate that rewards capital gains and forces paycheck earners to shoulder that tax burden.

If we're even collecting Spydercos now we should feel very lucky. Many, many folks are not "well off" enough to do the same.

The pricing of Spyderco knives is not exorbitant or unfair. To me the thought, materials and quality that goes into their making is a very good value when compared to other brands.

I'm thankful for a job where I get to learn, healthy food to eat, the rented roof over my head, friends who I enjoy, and the small hobby in which I am fortunate enough to indulge.

It feels really great to get a new :spyder: knife :D It feels even better when you can give one away freely and without remorse to another who isn't so fortunate :) Don't wed yourself to the knives, instead enjoy the joy that they can bring :)

[w3tnz]

There is a difference between being able to afford it, and being able to justify it. Saying you can afford a knife at x amount but not xx amount is nonsense, with some restraint and budgeting you can save for anything, the time it takes to get there is the variable.

IMO spyderco offer something for everyone, from the budget chinese models, through the mid level frn models, all the way to the top range collaborations using unique designs and finer materials. If you have to have a super steel wrapped in carbon fibre be prepared to pay for it, don't kid yourself thinking production costs haven't risen either, the price of material, shipping, labour, energy costs all reflect in the final price.

At the end of the day you have to live within your means, I want a ferarri, but im not going to give up driving because I can only afford a toyota...

[dbcad]

There is a difference between being able to afford it, and being able to justify it. Saying you can afford a knife at x amount but not xx amount is nonsense, with some restraint and budgeting you can save for anything, the time it takes to get there is the variable.

IMO spyderco offer something for everyone, from the budget chinese models, through the mid level frn models, all the way to the top range collaborations using unique designs and finer materials. If you have to have a super steel wrapped in carbon fibre be prepared to pay for it, don't kid yourself thinking production costs haven't risen either, the price of material, shipping, labour, energy costs all reflect in the final price.

At the end of the day you have to live within your means, I want a ferarri, but im not going to give up driving because I can only afford a toyota...

And those Toyotas run pretty darn well :)

[Leatherneck]

Driving around my town on a Friday night you wouldn't know the place was suffering. Every restaurant packed, $60k SUVs in the parking lots, etc.. Some folks spend their money on luxury, some on necessity and most in the middle who have a hobby or 2 and have to adjust according to finances. Since we are here because we like knives, the chances are that not many of us have just 1 or even 2,3,4.... Hard to gripe when I tell my Wife I "need" a new knife and she knows I have a hundred.

More on topic, yes the models that folks seem to crave, ask for or whatever seem to be getting a little expensive but only in comparison to the old standards. Spyderco seems to be balancing it pretty well, giving and taking here and there. I look at something like a Chaparral and think, does this knife give me the same value as a US made Paramilitary 2 for the same hundred bucks? Nope, but I'm one guy and it's my wallet and choice. Can't complain when it's my choice.

[GMAN]

It's so hard for me to see how in an economy that is so bad, how people will pay for expensive knives. Obviously the demand is there or Spyderco wouldn't price their knives so high.

I can get a Caly 3 in ZDP-189/420J2 for about $115. However the Caly 3.5 with the same handles and blade steel is about $175. :eek:

There are a lot of Japan/Taiwan models that are basically out of my reach and I make pretty darn good money.

Seems that the only ones I can afford any more are ones made in Golden Colorado, or the FRN Spydies. Anything G10 or carbon fiber or titanium made outside of the USA is out of my reach financially. Maybe Spyderco wants people to start buying stuff made in Golden more.

I was really looking forward to getting a Centofante Memory until I saw that it would be about a $210 knife. The Lion Spy is a $300 knife? Wow.

The Spyderco Tuff looks freakin' awesome. Not for $240. If I'm spending that kind of paper I'll throw down another $100 and get a Sebenza that's made in the USA.

I know this is pretty much a rant but I'm just getting frustrated at being priced out of my hobby.

Glad I like the Para 2 and the Manix 2.

David,

This is the reason I have started collecting more custom knives its keeps the money here in the good old USA and was handmade but I will still buy a Spydie every now and then..

[sal]

Hi Pockets, Tvenuto,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum.

Interesting thread, thanx for the start David. Naturally we're open to suggestions.

It's easy to see why many of the knife companies are making more and more knives in China, or at least making parts in China and assembling in the US. In an earlier post, the Chinese Yuan was listed as .75 to the dollar, not so, more like .20 to the dollar. It's easy to make a knife in China, sell it at a lower price and still make more profit than mfg anywhere else.

The Japanese Yen is more like 1.30 to the dollar. Add shipping, duties, licenses, etc. and that figure goes up. Our Seki makers are cutting their margins as low as they can and still survive (few companes are still making knives in Seki - when the Yen was 350 to the dollar, all the makes were in Seki). We've also cut our margins on Seki make knives as slow as posible in order to keep the knives available and keep the makers working. A practice the accountng dept does not appreciate.

The Euro is also up there with the Yen. We have been able to make a few knives in Italy because the makers there are also cooperating with very low margins betting on the future.

If a model does not survive, either because of demand or price, it is usually is dropped. Every week we have our product meeting where prices are heavily discussed. We also cringe at the prices we have to charge. As I said, I'm open to suggestions?

sal

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