Edge retention without further qualification is so vague you could say anything about any two steels. It would be perfectly truthful to say 420HC has greater edge retention than S90V but it is also perfectly meaningless as you are not saying how and what is being cut. That being said, all the material on S35VN I have seen it quite obvious that it is designed as a minor refinement and the page from Crucible makes it even more clear it was intended mainly to deal with maker/manufacturer issues.Ankerson wrote:My biggest few problems have been the hype surrounding S35VN from the beginning and a certian manufacturer stating that it performs better than S30V edge retention wise...... At the same hardness......... And it's posted on their website.......
Revisiting the S35VN question.......
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Cliff Stamp
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Just to lighten the conversation :)
(I should follow my own advice!)
People are entitled to change their minds and opinions. If not, we would never grow as individuals.
(I should follow my own advice!)
People are entitled to change their minds and opinions. If not, we would never grow as individuals.
"If you wish to live and thrive, let the spider run alive"
"the perfect knife is the one in your hand, you should just learn how to use it."
If you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything at all
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"the perfect knife is the one in your hand, you should just learn how to use it."
If you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything at all
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phillipsted
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I agree with you, Blerv. I trust the judgement of folks like Sal and Chris Reeve. They wouldn't put their name on it if it didn't meet their standards.Blerv wrote:Further more I'm going with the assessment of it being a nice overall steel. Such I got coming from Sal, Jim, Joe, Cliff and the letter "C". (for CATRA).
But the market is true arbiter here. If people try it and it works for them - then it stands a good chance of being a successful steel.
As for me - I'm in line to buy a brown S35V Para2 the day it hits the market.
TedP
Worry less - Breathe more...
Spydie Fanatic #185
Spydie Fanatic #185
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Cliff Stamp
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Kind of ironic considering the goal of the steel. Can you get full materials data from the supplier; retained austenite as a functional of soak temperatures, etc. or is this something you have to figure out for yourself through repeated trial and error? In any case it is interesting that there would be difficulties with S35VN for someone familiar with S30V as it should be easier to harden, easier to work and more forgiving to tolerances in time/temperature and again we are talking about very small changes in soak composition/carbide volume etc. . But in any case it is nice to see someone :sal wrote:Interesting to note that it is easier for us to work with S30V than S35VN simply because we have a great deal of experience with it. I guess different manufacturers have different preferences.
-use the steel
-encourage discussion
-move forward in a positive manner
Yeah that is what I have been saying from the very beginning and still do, and have been blasted for it a few times even know it's right on the Crucible Data Sheet.Cliff Stamp wrote:Edge retention without further qualification is so vague you could say anything about any two steels. It would be perfectly truthful to say 420HC has greater edge retention than S90V but it is also perfectly meaningless as you are not saying how and what is being cut. That being said, all the material on S35VN I have seen it quite obvious that it is designed as a minor refinement and the page from Crucible makes it even more clear it was intended mainly to deal with maker/manufacturer issues.
It was like so in so was involved in the development says it's better blah, blah, blah and nobody else knows what they are talking about blah, blah, blah...... WANNABE steel experts.... BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.... And so on......
OH P-L-E-A-S-E........ Some of us CAN read.....
So yeah it has been interesting....
What that mean is the edge is folding over slightly and yes when that happens the edge will lose sharpness in those areas.INFRNL wrote:sorry for the silly question, but what exactly is the blade rolling thats being mentioned? Does that have to do with the blade edge losing its edge/sharpness? Thanks
All edges will fail at some point if pushed hard enough, they will either roll or chip, but make no mistake one or the other will happen.
At the end of the day...this. ^^^^^ :)Ankerson wrote:
I do however believe that performance wise S35VN is close enough to S30V that in normal use MOST people really won't be able to tell the difference between them. So taking that into count S35VN is doing it's job and what it was designed to do. That's based on my testing and CATRA.
Mil-dot, when you are going after truth sometimes people get upset with you for upsetting their beliefs. Just asking an unbiased question can make you a pariah. The post work beverage remark I did was suppose to be in good fun even if it didn't read that way.
Anyways good on you for asking the tough question, getting beat up on, sticking to your guns and staying calm and cool in your responses.
I love my Spyderco's. Don't own any other brand of folder but sometimes the fanboyism in here gets a bit thick. The guy was asking an honest question and we tore him a new one for getting a bit "uppity". I know most of you don't think so but the guy deserves an apology.
Anyways good on you for asking the tough question, getting beat up on, sticking to your guns and staying calm and cool in your responses.
I love my Spyderco's. Don't own any other brand of folder but sometimes the fanboyism in here gets a bit thick. The guy was asking an honest question and we tore him a new one for getting a bit "uppity". I know most of you don't think so but the guy deserves an apology.
There's asking, asking nicely, and asking trollishly. Do the latter and expect to collect some crap. Just sayin' ...angusW wrote:Mil-dot, when you are going after truth sometimes people get upset with you for upsetting their beliefs. Just asking an unbiased question can make you a pariah. The post work beverage remark I did was suppose to be in good fun even if it didn't read that way.
On the internet, no one can see your face or hear your voice to figure out what's a joke, what's sarcasm, and what's an attack. It's a good place to be very clear with your writing.
Gordo
I have no problem aoplogising for the forum. Heck, it's my forum. While we do appreciate those that defend us, we try hard not to do anything that needs defending.angusW wrote:Mil-dot, when you are going after truth sometimes people get upset with you for upsetting their beliefs. Just asking an unbiased question can make you a pariah. The post work beverage remark I did was suppose to be in good fun even if it didn't read that way.
Anyways good on you for asking the tough question, getting beat up on, sticking to your guns and staying calm and cool in your responses.
I love my Spyderco's. Don't own any other brand of folder but sometimes the fanboyism in here gets a bit thick. The guy was asking an honest question and we tore him a new one for getting a bit "uppity". I know most of you don't think so but the guy deserves an apology.
I would guess that most of those that visit regularly are honest afi's seeking more knowledge about their interest. We try to set a tone of a seminar in sharing that information. Emotion is what it is. Better to have it and try to control it than to not have it?
This is a good group and communication is genuine. difficult to consistency find in today's world.
sal
Hi Cliff,Cliff Stamp wrote:Kind of ironic considering the goal of the steel. Can you get full materials data from the supplier; retained austenite as a functional of soak temperatures, etc. or is this something you have to figure out for yourself through repeated trial and error? In any case it is interesting that there would be difficulties with S35VN for someone familiar with S30V as it should be easier to harden, easier to work and more forgiving to tolerances in time/temperature and again we are talking about very small changes in soak composition/carbide volume etc. . But in any case it is nice to see someone :
-use the steel
-encourage discussion
-move forward in a positive manner
We don't have that resouce at the moment. It does take some very specialized equipment. We have had it at various times from Crucible and Carpenter, but people move on, and it takes a certain kind of interest to take the time to do that. Maybe inthe future?
Now we just do what we're doing. Trying, testing, experimenting. We're fortunate to have people around that have enough interest and drive to do testing like Jim and Phil. We also appreciate those learning to test like Crimson, as well as those like yourself that bring much to the discussion.
Not totally rocket sicence, but we try to remember that the edge, as woundrous as it is, was not invented/discovered by a scientist, but a cave man.
sal
Great points Ted. As they say "your mileage may vary", and really, personal mileage is all that matters.phillipsted wrote:I agree with you, Blerv. I trust the judgement of folks like Sal and Chris Reeve. They wouldn't put their name on it if it didn't meet their standards.
But the market is true arbiter here. If people try it and it works for them - then it stands a good chance of being a successful steel.
As for me - I'm in line to buy a brown S35V Para2 the day it hits the market.
TedP
As a sidenote I'd like to apologize to Mil-Dot and CrimsonTideShooter for my gruff disposition. Everyone has to pick the product best for them because we have different needs and perspectives.
Edit: just realized the apology request...mine wasn't urged
. Also, the "fanboy" references are getting old. FYI, it's a manufacturer's forum. So...yea...I'm glad yours wasn't urged by me Blerv.Blerv wrote:Edit: just realized the apology request...mine wasn't urged
I agree that fanboyism is getting old
. Here's a few definitions for people if they don't know what it means from urban dictionary.Fanboy:
1: A passionate fan of various elements of geek culture...but who lets his passion override social graces.
2: A person who is completely loyal to a game or company reguardless of if they suck or not.
3: An arrogant person who goes into an outburst every time something he likes is questioned.
I come to this forum not to see this kind of activity going on and it usually doesn't but unfortunately this thread was ripe with it.
I must of missed where someone ripped Mil Dot a new arse. Seems like he was looking for trouble and for the most part got the opinions he was expecting. Yea sorry you got what you asked for I guess. Calling people fanboys is a lame argument considering this thread wasn't about Spyderco but Ankerson"s opinion. I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. I love humble pie. It makes me wiser.
I believe in safe queens , they do exist!
This thread is seen in the context of a few others accounting for dozens of pages.
I think CTS and Mil-Dot just caught the brunt of frustration. As the steel (not Native) was the main point of contention I have to think such was the case. Spyderco, Chris Reeves, Crucible...all discussion points.
I dont know, a icky thread turned decent by grown-up people and a quest for civility. I'm definitely a fanboy of the forum . No argument there.
Note: I added CTS for apology sake only. I know he wasn't involved in this one.
I think CTS and Mil-Dot just caught the brunt of frustration. As the steel (not Native) was the main point of contention I have to think such was the case. Spyderco, Chris Reeves, Crucible...all discussion points.
I dont know, a icky thread turned decent by grown-up people and a quest for civility. I'm definitely a fanboy of the forum
. No argument there.Note: I added CTS for apology sake only. I know he wasn't involved in this one.
I'd say if MILDOT is that passionate about the subject (and I presume he must be because this thread keeps getting resurrected) rather than armchair quarterbacking any longer, he really needs to get in the game. He should do his own test.angusW wrote: I love my Spyderco's. Don't own any other brand of folder but sometimes the fanboyism in here gets a bit thick. The guy was asking an honest question and we tore him a new one for getting a bit "uppity". I know most of you don't think so but the guy deserves an apology.
I mean if a person is really disappointed with the research and the answers they are getting, at some point they need to make the decision to fish or cut bait. If he did a test he could then start to draw his own conclusions based on his experiences and share the results with other people interested in the subject. Certainly seems like there is an appetite for the information.
Apology, well I'm sure he will ask for one if he thinks its waranted but I don't think he does. He started the post saying he was looking to stir things up and he did, so the post did what it was intended to.