Now I get it

[nerdlock]

100%.

Seki FRN > Golden FRCP, any day of the week.

I am sure you know that anyway, but for those who perhaps don't:

There is only one Golden FRCP platform, the Manix 2 LW.
All other FRN Golden Spydies have, well, FRN handles.
Though Golden FRN does feel a bit different to Seki FRN imo.

Yep. I just lump Golden FRN with FRCP because they're almost the same, with just minor differences in co-polymers and whatnot. We've discussed this several years ago here, and the general consensus is that Golden's FRN "feels" almost the same as their FRCP counterpart. It's anecdotal, but the experience is part of why many prefer one material over the other.

Which is also weird since I love the Para 3 LW platform despite my dislike of Golden FRN.

[Wartstein]

I am sure you know that anyway, but for those who perhaps don't:

There is only one Golden FRCP platform, the Manix 2 LW.
All other FRN Golden Spydies have, well, FRN handles.
Though Golden FRN does feel a bit different to Seki FRN imo.

Yep. I just lump Golden FRN with FRCP because they're almost the same, with just minor differences in co-polymers and whatnot. We've discussed this several years ago here, and the general consensus is that Golden's FRN "feels" almost the same as their FRCP counterpart. It's anecdotal, but the experience is part of why many prefer one material over the other.

Which is also weird since I love the Para 3 LW platform despite my dislike of Golden FRN.

Agreed, their Golden FRN and FRCP feel pretty much the same (as far as I can tell... have quite some experience with their FRCP (in Manix LWs), but just little with their FRN (but a ton with Seki FRN)

I think the main difference and even one main reason that FRCP exists in the first place is that it can be made translucent, but FRN not.

[RustyIron]

I just lump Golden FRN with FRCP because they're almost the same, with just minor differences in co-polymers and whatnot. We've discussed this several years ago here,

The last time this topic was discussed, I read a lot about these whiz-bang materials. My conclusion was that the initialisms FRN and FRCP do not provide sufficient information to even conclude that they are different materials. But now we have AI to help with such question, so I just asked. She tells me that most common types of nylon are homopolymers, but some types of nylon can be designed as copolymers. Just like before, this doesn't really tell us much about the exact composition. To be honest, even if Sal called me up on the Bat Phone and told me that the handle on my Native is nylon-6,6 and my Manix 2 is nylon,6-10, I still wouldn't know anything. I'm not a materials scientist. All I can tell about the "feel" of the different materials is that the ones that have been carried more are smoother. Other than that, they feel exactly the same.

[Wartstein]

The last time this topic was discussed, I read a lot about these whiz-bang materials. My conclusion was that the initialisms FRN and FRCP do not provide sufficient information to even conclude that they are different materials. But now we have AI to help with such question, so I just asked. She tells me that most common types of nylon are homopolymers, but some types of nylon can be designed as copolymers. Just like before, this doesn't really tell us much about the exact composition. To be honest, even if Sal called me up on the Bat Phone and told me that the handle on my Native is nylon-6,6 and my Manix 2 is nylon,6-10, I still wouldn't know anything. I'm not a materials scientist. All I can tell about the "feel" of the different materials is that the ones that have been carried more are smoother. Other than that, they feel exactly the same.

Well, as said above: One certain difference between FRN and FRCP that perhaps can´t be felt but can be seen on some models is that FRCP can be made translucent, while FRN can´t.

Why this is (technically/chemically/whatever speaking): No idea.

Though now that I think about it: Perhaps FRCP also feels a tiny bit "harder" / "more brittle" than Golden FRN to me... ? (Seki FRN imo feels a bit "softer" more "rubber-like" anyway).

[RustyIron]

Though now that I think about it: Perhaps FRCP also feels a tiny bit "harder" / "more brittle" than Golden FRN to me... ? (Seki FRN imo feels a bit "softer" more "rubber-like" anyway).

In the interest of science, I decided to do a little experiment, testing the hardness of both materials. I have a couple Manix 2's right here. One is the orange REX45, and the other is the gray Maxamet. The FRN's are an orange Native in REX45 and a burgundy Stretch 2 XL in PD#1.

I haven't forgotten the "tempête de merde" that resulted from the use of inaccurate electronic hardness testers, so I won't use one. But I don't have a high-falutin Rockwell tester, either. So I'll just use this precision calibrated pointy metal thing that I found in my desk drawer.

The first test was with the FRCP. I can put a little dent in the material if I push hard. The FRN doesn't dent. The next test was a "scratch test." The pointy metal thing leaves a scratch on the FRCP, but does NOT leave a scratch on the FRN. The gray FRCP seems to dent and scratch a little easier than the orange, but that might be the inaccuracy of my pointy testing protocol.

So there you have it: FRN is better than FRCP.

P.S.
G10 isn't bad, but I'd like it better if they could carve a bidirectional pattern into it.

[jegred2]

I actually prefer seki city frn to golden Colorado frcp....

Seki frn is better than Golden frn, and the frcp handles suck.

[Wartstein]

... and the frcp handles suck.

...care to elaborate?

Honest question, since I had/have three FRCP handle Manixes now and they all handle(d) use and abuse like champs.. and offer very good ergos.

[jegred2]

... and the frcp handles suck.

...care to elaborate?

Honest question, since I had/have three FRCP handle Manixes now and they all handle(d) use and abuse like champs.. and offer very good ergos.

I don’t like how they feel in hand and they look and feel cheap. The Seki frn is the only plastic like material I care for.

[Fine Swine]

Polished G10 feels significantly more premium than textured/peel ply and moulded frn.

I definitely agree. My Darn Dao has the polished G10, and it just looks and feels amazing. It's one of the nicest Spydercos I've ever owned.

[Ramonade]

The Delica/Stretch FRN is outstanding (applicable to most seki FRN knives then).
And the cherry on top for me is the Native 5 LW. Seems even harder or something, can't really tell but I simply love it.

[Actinolite]

To me, it isn't an issue of plastic or not, it's how it feels in hand, and to a lesser degree, how it looks. My first quality production knife was a Buck 110 purchased new a few decades ago. It's beautiful with its ebony inlays and brass bolsters, but a pocket knife it isn't.

My first purchase of a "modern", quality, production pocket knife wasn't a Spyderco (I still thought Spydercos looked too strange). This unnamed, competitive knife was very light and well-made with a beautiful blade, but the scales looked cheap and felt cheaper. Their flexibility was distressing--I could feel them give as I shifted grip. To have an expensive (for me) knife that felt as cheap as a gas station knife was unacceptable.

Moving on to Spyderco (of which I now have near a dozen), I have a few models with FRN. I still think it looks sort of cheap, but it is strong, doesn't flex under normal use, and feels fine in the hand. I'm okay with Spyderco FRN. However, I still prefer the feel of G-10 and Micarta.

[Skywalker]

Imo, I don't have much preference between FRN/FRCP materials, but...

Seki FRN is better than Golden FRN/FRCP because the Seki models have a larger chamfer/fillet on the corners of their handles. Golden models are too squared off and less comfortable as a result

[nerdlock]

Imo, I don't have much preference between FRN/FRCP materials, but...

Seki FRN is better than Golden FRN/FRCP because the Seki models have a larger chamfer/fillet on the corners of their handles. Golden models are too squared off and less comfortable as a result

1000000%!!!!!

Finally someone on my wavelength...

I've said it here before, Golden FRN/CP would be a hundred times much better if they had those oh-so-smooth Seki chamfers. Which is probably why Para 3 LW hits all the marks for me.

This is why I only have one N5 LW and no NC LWs and M2 LWs. The blockiness is uncomfortable for me.

On that subtopic, bringing up again the conversation on why most Golden G-10s lost the beautiful chamfers of ages past. Probably why the Military was way comfortable for its size was the chamfers. And why Seki G-10s are so comfortable because they're chamfered like champs.

[Wartstein]

Though now that I think about it: Perhaps FRCP also feels a tiny bit "harder" / "more brittle" than Golden FRN to me... ? (Seki FRN imo feels a bit "softer" more "rubber-like" anyway).

In the interest of science, I decided to do a little experiment, testing the hardness of both materials. I have a couple Manix 2's right here. One is the orange REX45, and the other is the gray Maxamet. The FRN's are an orange Native in REX45 and a burgundy Stretch 2 XL in PD#1.

I haven't forgotten the "tempête de merde" that resulted from the use of inaccurate electronic hardness testers, so I won't use one. But I don't have a high-falutin Rockwell tester, either. So I'll just use this precision calibrated pointy metal thing that I found in my desk drawer.

The first test was with the FRCP. I can put a little dent in the material if I push hard. The FRN doesn't dent. The next test was a "scratch test." The pointy metal thing leaves a scratch on the FRCP, but does NOT leave a scratch on the FRN. The gray FRCP seems to dent and scratch a little easier than the orange, but that might be the inaccuracy of my pointy testing protocol.

So there you have it: FRN is better than FRCP.

P.S.
G10 isn't bad, but I'd like it better if they could carve a bidirectional pattern into it.


IMG_2505 Large.jpeg

Thanks and interesting!

I would have thouhgt that FRN dents easier than FRCP...now this being vice versa in you test could (but of course does not have to) even hint that FRCP is less likely to break / crack under stress - ?

[Bill1170]

I actually prefer seki city frn to golden Colorado frcp....

Same here. It just feels better in hand. I’ve never tried Golden FRN, so I have no opinion there.

Edited to add: the Seki FRN definitely feels “softer” than the Golden FRCP, though it’s possible that I’m subconsciously reacting to the larger radius edges of the Seki scales. I’m okay with a basically flat folding knife, but the gentler radiused edges on the Seki scales just feel better and more friendly in my hand.

[OV1kenobi]

Once you get rid of the sharp inner edges of the Seki FRN scales (or any FRN/FRCP scales) by chamfering them using the end of a Sharpmaker rod or the tip of a needle file at a 45 degree angle a good thing becomes even better.

[RustyIron]

I would have thouhgt that FRN dents easier than FRCP...now this being vice versa in you test could (but of course does not have to) even hint that FRCP is less likely to break / crack under stress - ?

We can use mathematics to answer your question.
As far as I can recall, I've had 8 FRN knives, and none have broken.

So FRN has 0% failure rate.

As far as I can recall, I've had 4 FRCP knives. One was broken at the pivot when I received it.

FRCP has a 25% failure rate.

Right? Right? Math don't lie! 🫨

Skeevy statistical analysis aside, I have no way of knowing which material is "better." I'm just trying to point out the absurdity of trying to answer such a question. They're both fine for sensible use as intended by the manufacturer.

[Actinolite]

Imo, I don't have much preference between FRN/FRCP materials, but...

Seki FRN is better than Golden FRN/FRCP because the Seki models have a larger chamfer/fillet on the corners of their handles. Golden models are too squared off and less comfortable as a result

I think you've got something there. My least favorite Spyderco is my Manix 2 Lightweight. The Manix just feels like a sharp-edged chunk of plastic, rather than a knife-handle, despite having such an ergonomic shape. I don't have this problem with my Delica or Dragonfly, which feel very good in hand.

[spydergoat]

...
Native 5 LW. Seems even harder or something, can't really tell but I simply love it.

Yeah why does Native LW handle material feel better than the rest of the Golden FRN stuff?

[JBoone]

The Delica/Stretch FRN is outstanding (applicable to most seki FRN knives then).
And the cherry on top for me is the Native 5 LW. Seems even harder or something, can't really tell but I simply love it.

I seem to be accumulating K390 in blue FRN. Carrying the Stretch 2 today and have preordered the XL.