CPM 4V | Edge Performance

[JuPaul]

I've been carrying the St Nick's Lil Native ever since I bought it last month, and so far I am really liking this steel. It holds its edge well at thinner angles and touches up absurdly easily in my experience. It's actually one of the sharpest knives I own.
I hope to see more folders in CPM 4V.

What angles are you using? I have yet to do a full sharpening on mine...

[The Meat man]

I've been carrying the St Nick's Lil Native ever since I bought it last month, and so far I am really liking this steel. It holds its edge well at thinner angles and touches up absurdly easily in my experience. It's actually one of the sharpest knives I own.
I hope to see more folders in CPM 4V.

What angles are you using? I have yet to do a full sharpening on mine...

I'm not exactly sure but they're somewhere around 10 dps. I did get a couple microchips but that usually happens, I have found, with new knives. My Police 4 and M390 Delica were the same until I sharpened them a few times and got some fresh steel at the apex.

I've been using a microbevel now at 30° inclusive and it is amazing how quickly the steel responds. Literally just 2 or 3 swipes on the UF rods and it is back up to tree topping arm hair. I have had zero trouble with burrs either which is nice (and something I struggle with sometimes on my K390 Police). The only other steel I have used that comes close to CPM 4V's sharpening response is CPM M4. It's just a delight to use and sharpen.

For the reprofiling I used my Hapstone, but the knife blade is almost too small for it. I had trouble getting the edge at the heel, next to the choil. The plunge grind kinda got in the way and I ended up wearing away just a tiny bit of DLC in my attempt at sharpening. So I think from here on out in going to maintain the edge freehand and microbevel as needed.

[JuPaul]

I've been carrying the St Nick's Lil Native ever since I bought it last month, and so far I am really liking this steel. It holds its edge well at thinner angles and touches up absurdly easily in my experience. It's actually one of the sharpest knives I own.
I hope to see more folders in CPM 4V.

What angles are you using? I have yet to do a full sharpening on mine...

I'm not exactly sure but they're somewhere around 10 dps. I did get a couple microchips but that usually happens, I have found, with new knives. My Police 4 and M390 Delica were the same until I sharpened them a few times and got some fresh steel at the apex.

I've been using a microbevel now at 30° inclusive and it is amazing how quickly the steel responds. Literally just 2 or 3 swipes on the UF rods and it is back up to tree topping arm hair. I have had zero trouble with burrs either which is nice (and something I struggle with sometimes on my K390 Police). The only other steel I have used that comes close to CPM 4V's sharpening response is CPM M4. It's just a delight to use and sharpen.

For the reprofiling I used my Hapstone, but the knife blade is almost too small for it. I had trouble getting the edge at the heel, next to the choil. The plunge grind kinda got in the way and I ended up wearing away just a tiny bit of DLC in my attempt at sharpening. So I think from here on out in going to maintain the edge freehand and microbevel as needed.

Thanks! That may be a project for this weekend...

[SteveMidwest]

I'd like to see 4V at high hardness and FFG in the Manix 2 and Manix 2 XL. And of course, I'd like to see it narrower BTE. I didn't buy the Fradon Lock exclusive because of the price ($209.95--high for me) and hollow grind -- But the hollow grind looked pretty thin behind the edge. Anybody know its thickness BTE?

Does anyone remember the hardness of the 4V Mule? I have a couple of them -- I don't use fixies that much but maybe I should change that.

I just now ran across your comment here, and question. So sorry for the slow reply, and answer.
While I did not get a 4V Mule. I did get the Fradon Lock 4V Manix 2. It's 0.028" BTE, and I poked it twice, to test it's HRC. It came in on both pokes, with a 65.0 HRC. So, thicker than we like, but harder than I was expecting. :D

[DougC-3]

I'd like to see 4V at high hardness and FFG in the Manix 2 and Manix 2 XL. And of course, I'd like to see it narrower BTE. I didn't buy the Fradon Lock exclusive because of the price ($209.95--high for me) and hollow grind -- But the hollow grind looked pretty thin behind the edge. Anybody know its thickness BTE?

Does anyone remember the hardness of the 4V Mule? I have a couple of them -- I don't use fixies that much but maybe I should change that.

I just now ran across your comment here, and question. So sorry for the slow reply, and answer.
While I did not get a 4V Mule. I did get the Fradon Lock 4V Manix 2. It's 0.028" BTE, and I poked it twice, to test it's HRC. It came in on both pokes, with a 65.0 HRC. So, thicker than we like, but harder than I was expecting. :D

Thanks much for the answer, I wasn't in a hurry :D I'm impressed by the 65.0 HRC. I dug out my only two hollow ground spydies for comparison, an S30V DLC Manix 2 and one of the original hollow ground Manix 2 pilots, from when they were deciding between HG and FFG (2009). The DLC model was 0.027" at mid blade as best I could measure it with a pretty good micrometer. And the pilot run was a whopping 0.035"!

I suppose one advantage the HG has over the FFG is that it would stay about the same thickness BTE after years and years of sharpening...

[SteveMidwest]

I'd like to see 4V at high hardness and FFG in the Manix 2 and Manix 2 XL. And of course, I'd like to see it narrower BTE. I didn't buy the Fradon Lock exclusive because of the price ($209.95--high for me) and hollow grind -- But the hollow grind looked pretty thin behind the edge. Anybody know its thickness BTE?

Does anyone remember the hardness of the 4V Mule? I have a couple of them -- I don't use fixies that much but maybe I should change that.

I just now ran across your comment here, and question. So sorry for the slow reply, and answer.
While I did not get a 4V Mule. I did get the Fradon Lock 4V Manix 2. It's 0.028" BTE, and I poked it twice, to test it's HRC. It came in on both pokes, with a 65.0 HRC. So, thicker than we like, but harder than I was expecting. :D

Thanks much for the answer, I wasn't in a hurry :D I'm impressed by the 65.0 HRC. I dug out my only two hollow ground spydies for comparison, an S30V DLC Manix 2 and one of the original hollow ground Manix 2 pilots, from when they were deciding between HG and FFG (2009). The DLC model was 0.027" at mid blade as best I could measure it with a pretty good micrometer. And the pilot run was a whopping 0.035"!

I suppose one advantage the HG has over the FFG is that it would stay about the same thickness BTE after years and years of sharpening...

Thank you DougC-3 for those BTE measurements! Pretty consistent it seems, when comparing this newer 4V BTE, to that old DLC version you measured. :D

You are right of course, about the BTE progressing less thick over time, on a HG. But since I now have a belt grinder, and with so many others having them too now days. The ease and availability of finding someone to re-hit the primary grind after time, on a FFG. To thin that BTE again. Is pretty easy, and the way I like to go. Trying to match a HG, on a re-grind, is a maddening adventure. Just finding the right/matching wheel size, let alone having one on hand, or finding someone who does. Is simply not worth it, in most cases. Not to mention, getting the tool rest set at the EXACT right height.

I have a misting system on my grinder too. To keep any added heat from building up, and eliminating the risk of any further tempering. Though knocking back a few thousandths on a HSS blade, the water misting isn't really necessary (a dip now and then is enough). I still like to use it, to keep the blade clean during, so I can see more quickly at a glance, how things are going. And, it sure keeps the dust down!

Not only for knife making. The grinder is also handy to use after buying a new knife, that comes in waaaay too thick behind the edge. I got a new one in just a couple of weeks ago, that arrived at 0.038" BTE. I about had a stroke! :eek:
It's also great for kitchen knives, which sure aren't made with a HG very often.

[DougC-3]

I'd like to see 4V at high hardness and FFG in the Manix 2 and Manix 2 XL. And of course, I'd like to see it narrower BTE. I didn't buy the Fradon Lock exclusive because of the price ($209.95--high for me) and hollow grind -- But the hollow grind looked pretty thin behind the edge. Anybody know its thickness BTE?

Does anyone remember the hardness of the 4V Mule? I have a couple of them -- I don't use fixies that much but maybe I should change that.

I just now ran across your comment here, and question. So sorry for the slow reply, and answer.
While I did not get a 4V Mule. I did get the Fradon Lock 4V Manix 2. It's 0.028" BTE, and I poked it twice, to test it's HRC. It came in on both pokes, with a 65.0 HRC. So, thicker than we like, but harder than I was expecting. :D

Thanks much for the answer, I wasn't in a hurry :D I'm impressed by the 65.0 HRC. I dug out my only two hollow ground spydies for comparison, an S30V DLC Manix 2 and one of the original hollow ground Manix 2 pilots, from when they were deciding between HG and FFG (2009). The DLC model was 0.027" at mid blade as best I could measure it with a pretty good micrometer. And the pilot run was a whopping 0.035"!

I suppose one advantage the HG has over the FFG is that it would stay about the same thickness BTE after years and years of sharpening...

Thank you DougC-3 for those BTE measurements! Pretty consistent it seems, when comparing this newer 4V BTE, to that old DLC version you measured. :D

You are right of course, about the BTE progressing less thick over time, on a HG. But since I now have a belt grinder, and with so many others having them too now days. The ease and availability of finding someone to re-hit the primary grind after time, on a FFG. To thin that BTE again. Is pretty easy, and the way I like to go. Trying to match a HG, on a re-grind, is a maddening adventure. Just finding the right/matching wheel size, let alone having one on hand, or finding someone who does. Is simply not worth it, in most cases. Not to mention, getting the tool rest set at the EXACT right height.

I have a misting system on my grinder too. To keep any added heat from building up, and eliminating the risk of any further tempering. Though knocking back a few thousandths on a HSS blade, the water misting isn't really necessary (a dip now and then is enough). I still like to use it, to keep the blade clean during, so I can see more quickly at a glance, how things are going. And, it sure keeps the dust down!

Not only for knife making. The grinder is also handy to use after buying a new knife, that comes in waaaay too thick behind the edge. I got a new one in just a couple of weeks ago, that arrived at 0.038" BTE. I about had a stroke! :eek:
It's also great for kitchen knives, which sure aren't made with a HG very often.

You make it sound easy. I'd like to give it a try at some point in the future, but at present am totally lacking in confidence... probably have to pay youtube a visit

[Cycletroll]

Bumping a good thread.
Any one have feedback on the 4V Manix XL?
Sharpening choices? Performance? HRC?
I'm about to break out mine. Thought I might do Comparison of XL's: s30v/s90v/M4/4V
Perhaps starting with 15° per side on the wicked edge @600 or 800 grit diamond?
Thoughts?

[vivi]

I took my 4V XL to 10-12dps 260 grit edge stropped twice per side on 7 micron.

Cleanly shaves and is an extremely aggressive slicer. Has held an edge very well, hasn't needed sharpening since I set the edge.

[Cycletroll]

I took my 4V XL to 10-12dps 260 grit edge stropped twice per side on 7 micron.

Cleanly shaves and is an extremely aggressive slicer. Has held an edge very well, hasn't needed sharpening since I set the edge.

Good to know; thanks Vivi!
If you had to pick one XL I'm guessing it'd be the 4v? (Or maybe s90v?)

[vivi]

I took my 4V XL to 10-12dps 260 grit edge stropped twice per side on 7 micron.

Cleanly shaves and is an extremely aggressive slicer. Has held an edge very well, hasn't needed sharpening since I set the edge.

Good to know; thanks Vivi!
If you had to pick one XL I'm guessing it'd be the 4v? (Or maybe s90v?)

Time will tell. I'm a very big fan of M4, but initial impressions of 4V are good.

If I had to pick one Manix it'd be my M4 because the cbbl is pure butter while my 4V has bad lock stick. It'll get better over time I'm sure.