xinam wrote:Yeah, I've since done a search or two... Mind blown... The prices are pretty crazy high but from what I can tell you are paying for phenomenal fit and finish and some really nice materials to boot. The construction looks stronger, though by my estimation they're not tremendously stronger. I HAVE to use my knives, so 1000 plus is out of the question... If money weren't an issue I could see my self on a TA Davison wait list for sure, that man has some made some beautiful stuff. He has a picture or two on his site with a pattern done in carbon fiber, I didn't think I would like that but after seeing it.... sure adds a nice touch.
Yeah, I don't really know what the answer would be and don't have a clue how Spyderco would even do it keeping them in a reasonable price range with the tolerance levels that high. :confused:
If Spyderco made a multi bladed folder along traditional lines, think of the mental anguish when buyers realized that they could no longer reasonably kvetch about blade centering, LOL. I guess blade rubbing would take its place. But seriously, offset nesting blades are a key to the wonderful thinness of traditional pen knives and such. Updated traditionals seem like a viable niche to explore. I agree that nail nicks are problematic when coupled with robust back springs. Now I need to Google this double dent system.
I have a Queen Barlow I like, but don't use because I can't open it without destroying my nails, and I have thicker nails, so that's a big consideration. I'm actually going to mod my Spy-DK in the Spring so it pulls out a bit easier. I like how it stays open securely, but just that initial start of the opening.
I'd like, if one was made, some micarta or polished G10.I think spey blades are useless, so how about a spear for that one? If it was not too long and bulky, I'd buy one.
I'd like to see a stockman in an upgraded steel, myself. A lot of the blade rub issues can be avoided by using three springs instead of crinking the secondary blades to use a single spring. Overall thickness can be held down by using thinner stock for the blades and springs. Of course, all that is completely counter to the current "tacticool" and "hard use" thinking that is so prevalent. One hand opening has become less and less important to me as I've gotten older and slowly learned to plan ahead. In fact, most of my cutting these days gets done with an old fashioned slipjoint that I've opened with two hands, with a blade ground thin enough to make a Ladybug look thick by comparison.
I still carry "Old Reliable", my 40+ year old 8OT stockman. I've used it plenty, and abused it a little, but I've never mistaken it for a screwdriver, crowbar or shovel, and it is as tight now as when I took it out of the blister pack all those years ago. It has a bit more play than my Ken Coats customs, but it cost me less than a tenth of what any of them did, so I can live with it.
Could Spyderco compete in the traditional market? Possibly, but it wouldn't be easy. There doesn't seem to be much room for innovation in that market, and I'm afraid whatever they came up with would end up being to far out for the traditionalists and too flimsy for the modernists, or just too chunky for anyone.
I like the idea however I want my slip joints on the small side. There is nothing more uncomfortable than a large knife cross ways in the bottom of your pocket and against the front of your leg.I'm not really satisfied with the steel in any of the slip joint knives out there unless its the Tony Bose knives with 154 cm and would like to see some with handles matching tactical knives like stainless, aluminum, titanium G10 etc.
RanCoWeAla wrote: There is nothing more uncomfortable than a large knife cross ways in the bottom of your pocket and against the front of your leg.
I agree! The smaller patterns get lost in the pocket and the large ones make bruises on your leg LOL . I am cool with a large stockman platform at first because I feel like it would be a bit easier to work out the kinks in the design. I'm still excited to see what Eric is working on. I've been a fan of his designs from the start. I'm sure whatever it ends up it'll be good.
yablanowitz wrote:I'd like to see a stockman in an upgraded steel, myself. A lot of the blade rub issues can be avoided by using three springs instead of crinking the secondary blades to use a single spring. Overall thickness can be held down by using thinner stock for the blades and springs.
I was surprised when I got my GEC Buckaroo. It's pretty close to a stockman pattern. The burnt stag scales make it really thick compared to the other things about the knife. No liners separating the blades for example.
Here it looks like a standard 3.5" closed pocket knife.
Here you can see it's actually thicker than what I'd call "normal". I don't mind though. Gives it a fuller feeling whenever I use it. And it doesn't feel awkward in my pocket. The thickness was a surprise though when I first opened the tube. I like the tubes they come in. :)
EDIT:
I forgot my point. :o I'd like to see a little more blade on the main clip point blade for a opening hole. Is that anything like what some of you are picturing? Maybe some of the side of the handle cut down for easier access to the hole.
Something about the bolsters on this knife. I REALLY would have preferred them to be at an angle instead of straight up and down. I think it improves the look of the handle. Just my thinking. So everyone let Erik know to have the bolsters at an angle. :)
jackknifeh wrote:Something about the bolsters on this knife. I REALLY would have preferred them to be at an angle instead of straight up and down. I think it improves the look of the handle. Just my thinking. So everyone let Erik know to have the bolsters at an angle. :)
Something like the Mini Moose?
sal wrote: .... even today, we design a knife from the edge out!
RanCoWeAla wrote: There is nothing more uncomfortable than a large knife cross ways in the bottom of your pocket and against the front of your leg.
I agree! The smaller patterns get lost in the pocket and the large ones make bruises on your leg LOL . I am cool with a large stockman platform at first because I feel like it would be a bit easier to work out the kinks in the design. I'm still excited to see what Eric is working on. I've been a fan of his designs from the start. I'm sure whatever it ends up it'll be good.
I also prefer the smaller slip joints for the same reasons, nothing worse than a knife bouncing around in the bottom of the pocket.
jackknifeh wrote:Something about the bolsters on this knife. I REALLY would have preferred them to be at an angle instead of straight up and down. I think it improves the look of the handle. Just my thinking. So everyone let Erik know to have the bolsters at an angle. :)
Something like the Mini Moose?
Yes! Those look so much better. When shopping and then deciding on my above knife I was going to get one with angled bolsters but it was 4 1/8" closed. I thought that would be bigger than I'd want. In fact if I want a knife that large I also want it stronger than most traditionals are. I'd opt for a GB, Manix or something Spyderco. Personally, I've not seen a traditional pocket knife that I think is as strong as the "hard use folders" Spyderco makes. They're not flimsy, just not "SPYDERCO"! :spyder: :)
I'm gonna go against the grain of this thread and say it's probably a bad idea for Spyderco to pursue a stockman slipit. I'll give a couple reasons.
#1. It drives me up the wall how many people on forums complain, post pictures, and whine about off center blades. I was well into my thirties before I even became aware that there was such a thing. I grew up with traditional knives that scraped liners or scales, rubbed against each other, etc. As long as the edge didn't scrape, it was fine. Myself and millions of others have countless hours using imperfect knives, and it has absolutely nothing to do with how well a knife works at cutting things. It is probably just a shift of culture, I grew up with people that used knives and were more interested in what came from the knives. The figure that was carved, the food that was prepared, the deer that was butchered, or the camp that was set up. What knife you used was secondary to the task; the task was the important thing. The forums are populated with people that collect or own knives, and many are more interested in having a 'perfect specimen'...honestly I kinda feel sorry for people like that, they miss out on much of the wonder that the world has to offer. Most of the first type of knife owner won't pay the money for a Spyderco stockman, Most that would, would end up complaining about the price, blade centering, blade play etc. In a similar vein, Spyderco makes the best backlocks in the world. (Least play) Now there seem to be complaints that lint will get into these precision milled openings and stop them from working. I admire Sal, few people show his class and dignity.
#2. Many people clamoring for a stockman probably won't buy one. This is just opinion, But judging from the posts so far, I see too many deal breakers for too many people. Must have bolsters, any steel but ____, etc. For some it won't be traditional enough, "It has holes instead of a nail nick." For others it won't have the features they expect, "I'd get one if it had a four way deep carry clip, but since it doesn't, I'm gonna pass."
#3. Percieved cost. What does a retail store case stockman go for? About fifty bucks, right? Take Spyderco's bread and butter knife, Delica, $75 give or take a bit. (Street price) Both knives are reasonably priced for what you get. I just don't see Spyderco being able to make a stockman that they would be happy with for anything under $250, and probably higher than that. It's tough to sell something at a 500% markup. I would know the difference, some others too, but how many people will understand, and still pay? Then you are back to the problem of, "If it had bolsters, if they had done it in stag, etc."
Spyderco is the most innovative company I know of. My personal, possibly incorrect, opinion is that making a traditional stockman is backing away from what makes this company great.
gdwtvb wrote:I'm gonna go against the grain of this thread and say it's probably a bad idea for Spyderco to pursue a stockman slipit. I'll give a couple reasons.
I tend to agree with that because I don't know how they would do it at a reasonable price keeping the quality they are famous for.
gdwtvb wrote:
#1. It drives me up the wall how many people on forums complain, post pictures, and whine about off center blades. I was well into my thirties before I even became aware that there was such a thing. I grew up with traditional knives that scraped liners or scales, rubbed against each other, etc. As long as the edge didn't scrape, it was fine. Myself and millions of others have countless hours using imperfect knives, and it has absolutely nothing to do with how well a knife works at cutting things. It is probably just a shift of culture, I grew up with people that used knives and were more interested in what came from the knives. The figure that was carved, the food that was prepared, the deer that was butchered, or the camp that was set up. What knife you used was secondary to the task; the task was the important thing. The forums are populated with people that collect or own knives, and many are more interested in having a 'perfect specimen'...honestly I kinda feel sorry for people like that, they miss out on much of the wonder that the world has to offer. Most of the first type of knife owner won't pay the money for a Spyderco stockman, Most that would, would end up complaining about the price, blade centering, blade play etc. In a similar vein, Spyderco makes the best backlocks in the world. (Least play) Now there seem to be complaints that lint will get into these precision milled openings and stop them from working. I admire Sal, few people show his class and dignity.
I am older so I know what you are talking about here.
gdwtvb wrote:
#2. Many people clamoring for a stockman probably won't buy one. This is just opinion, But judging from the posts so far, I see too many deal breakers for too many people. Must have bolsters, any steel but ____, etc. For some it won't be traditional enough, "It has holes instead of a nail nick." For others it won't have the features they expect, "I'd get one if it had a four way deep carry clip, but since it doesn't, I'm gonna pass."
I just don't know.
gdwtvb wrote:
#3. Percieved cost. What does a retail store case stockman go for? About fifty bucks, right? Take Spyderco's bread and butter knife, Delica, $75 give or take a bit. (Street price) Both knives are reasonably priced for what you get. I just don't see Spyderco being able to make a stockman that they would be happy with for anything under $250, and probably higher than that. It's tough to sell something at a 500% markup. I would know the difference, some others too, but how many people will understand, and still pay? Then you are back to the problem of, "If it had bolsters, if they had done it in stag, etc."
I tend to think it would be closer to CRK prices, around the $400 range, but that is a guess at best on my part.
gdwtvb wrote:
Spyderco is the most innovative company I know of. My personal, possibly incorrect, opinion is that making a traditional stockman is backing away from what makes this company great.
Grizz
I still think it would be interesting to see if it could be done at a reasonable price with the quality that we normally see from Spyderco.
Ankerson wrote:
I still think it would be interesting to see if it could be done at a reasonable price with the quality that we normally see from Spyderco.
Agreed. Spyderco continues to be a leader in the industry when in comes to making the impossible possible. I'd like to see what Spyderco could do with this. For size, I'd like something about the size of the Air, if possible. Just big enough without being too cumbersome in the pocket.
As Sal has said, Eric has some very nice and functional multi blade models prototyped. Manufactured in china, I believe the cost could be reasonable. I personally am stoked ! A barlow would probably do well and be far easier to produce. Maybe if they do well they could up the ante and try to fulfill everyones wishes with steel and styling. And make it in Golden ! :) I could see the traditionals appealing to many and becoming a sort of limited edition collectable in the line up . To me, with so many places having restrictions on this and that, this is a perfect time to throw out a few classic slips with short blades. Mr. G mention carbon fiber and after some thought, I think a peel ply cf barlow with out bolsters could be awesome. Would make a good platform for the double dent . A design like that IMO would be adding innovation to a proven classic design. The more I think about this the more I want to see it.
xinam wrote:As Sal has said, Eric has some very nice and functional multi blade models prototyped. Manufactured in china, I believe the cost could be reasonable. I personally am stoked ! A barlow would probably do well and be far easier to produce. Maybe if they do well they could up the ante and try to fulfill everyones wishes with steel and styling. And make it in Golden ! :) I could see the traditionals appealing to many and becoming a sort of limited edition collectable in the line up . To me, with so many places having restrictions on this and that, this is a perfect time to throw out a few classic slips with short blades. Mr. G mention carbon fiber and after some thought, I think a peel ply cf barlow with out bolsters could be awesome. Would make a good platform for the double dent . A design like that IMO would be adding innovation to a proven classic design. The more I think about this the more I want to see it.
I think a Barlow would be nice also, that's what I carried most of the time back when I only carried slip joints. :)
Had a number of them over the years by different manufacturers.
The perfect size slip joint for me is the Case 087's . There you have a Pen,Jack and Stockman all three made from the exact same handle. The Stockman can be had with either Spey or Sheepfoot if you search a little bit. These knives are the perfect size for front pocket carry being not too big or too little.
There is definitely a niche in the the knife market for a classic slip joint only made with modern materials. I am tired of these so called classic slip joints where you are in doubt about the steel, they insist on using Brass liners and handle materials like bone and stag that just one single drop of oil will ruin when left stored for long periods. I want to see someone make a line of quality slip joints using stainless liners, maybe 154 cm blades and handles materials such as titanium, aluminum, stainless and G10 for around $150-200 and I believe it could be done.
RanCoWeAla wrote:There is definitely a niche in the the knife market for a classic slip joint only made with modern materials. I am tired of these so called classic slip joints where you are in doubt about the steel, they insist on using Brass liners and handle materials like bone and stag that just one single drop of oil will ruin when left stored for long periods. I want to see someone make a line of quality slip joints using stainless liners, maybe 154 cm blades and handles materials such as titanium, aluminum, stainless and G10 for around $150-200 and I believe it could be done.
Yes, yes, and yes! A "not your father's stockman" stockman!!
