Spyderco Tactical Folder Line!(SPYDERTAC)

[chuck_roxas45]

Sorry, unless you are Chuck. Anyone driving a pink micro-truck is surely an instigator of martial matters. :p

Lulz!

[jalcon]

Dude you use a lot of exclamations!

[chuck_roxas45]

Dude you use a lot of exclamations!

You don't say!!!

[Officer Gigglez]

Tactical is just a fancy way of saying Practical, but it sounds cooler in marketing. The gun community is keen on using that term, and they get carried away with it. Anyway, there are many knives in Spyderco's line up that are very practical for defensive and if necessary, offensive roles. If quick deployment is what you're after, there are many with Emerson openers.

[eric m.]

Sounds like you want a heavy-duty knife more so than a tactical one. From a tactical stand-point, you have someone like Michael Janich who works in special projects and helps develop knives specifically for self-defense purposes, which is what a 'tactical' knife should be. Spyderco does in fact have a whole division called Op-Focus which is specifically for military, police officers, self-defense, etc.

What you want is a beefy, overbuilt tank folder, right? Like a ZT300, or a Medford Praetorian, or XM-18, etc. Which is a pretty sexy style these days for sure. There are a few custom knife makers which are doing things that you would probably like. They are licensed to use the Spyderco opening hole, they are building big chunky knives and putting out a good quality product. Well, at least I think they are licensed... don't quote me on that.

Someone like Daibor Bergam is doing some cool stuff that might be up your alley. Only downside is that he's got a long wait! http://daliborbergamknives.com/

It is completely obvious to me that the word tactical is off limits here! Yes you are right! If I only new the stereotype thing I would have stated heavy duty, or heavy use folder! Yes I would love to have a medium-large Stretch built like a tank! It is amazing how many people own one or more of these "PRYBAR" knives built by the other manufacturers! Thanks for the info, but I was interested in a Spyderco built knife along these lines! :spyder:

[Officer Gigglez]

"Tactical" is an over-used buzzword for peddling splitting wedges to mall ninjas. That's what I think. As for why Spyderco hasn't made any inroads into this area, they seem focused on making high-performance cutting tools rather than extracting as much money as possible from people.

Seriously, when was the last time you or anyone else here selected a pocket knife as your tool of choice to kill an enemy sentry?

My thoughts exactly. Nod for the use of "Mall ninja." Makes me laugh every time. I can just picture a big fat slob in his computer chair with a wife beater and his gut hanging out, with a load bearing vest and ballistic helmet on, covered in Doritos crumbs.

[markg]

I was watching a show on the Military Channel and I saw a soldier fighting in "the sand box" back circa 2002... He was using a Spyderco Endura to point something out on a map. Don't get much more "tactical" than that. Spyderco does market to the military/LEO/EMS community with special products and their own catalog. They even have people who handle sales just for these folks. Spyderco is in the tactical market as much as anyone.

Why people respond so strongly to this subject is simple. We all know that the more popular something becomes, the greater the chance someone is going to do something stupid and mess it up for everyone else. As our culture has become more urban, there are less and less traditional uses of knives. Working on the farm, cutting up game or livestock, etc... Add to the fact that the American educational system is weapon phobic to the extreme, and every person is raised to see even the smallest of SAK's as a deadly weapon and not a useful tool. The main use most modern folks see for a knife is a weapon, hate to admit that but we must. We can cry "it's a tool" all we want, but we are swimming up stream in the perception department.

So, if knives are marketed as a weapon (read TACTICAL) then people will buy them as a weapon, some idiot will use them as a weapon... Some politician will then seek to ban them. So in short, most savvy knife collector's enthusiast, and the like see the whole tactical knife trend as a slippery slope to a bad landing.

That, and the whole sense that the tactical market is really geared to high drag, low speed overweight middle aged wannabe's who just look painfully wrong. It has just become so clique.

[xceptnl]

It is completely obvious to me that the word tactical is off limits here! Yes you are right! If I only new the stereotype thing I would have stated heavy duty, or heavy use folder! Yes I would love to have a medium-large Stretch built like a tank! It is amazing how many people own one or more of these "PRYBAR" knives built by the other manufacturers! Thanks for the info, but I was interested in a Spyderco built knife along these lines! :spyder:

Let's try a different angle... removing labels. What is it about your Southard that you feel is not rugged enough for hard use? Do you intend to have a thicker blade stock to allow more lateral stresses or are you looking for something with a more robust lock? Maybe you want something with more penetrating capabilities and better tip strength. I think the lack of a clear definition is the major communication hurdle at work here. I personally own MANY spydercos as well as some of the thicker stock knives that you say fit into this PRYBAR category. If I had to purchase a Spyderco to directly compete with them in all categories that I previously mentioned, I would consider the following.

LionSpy
Tuff
Ulize
Police G-10
Military
Manix 2 XL

[Liquid Cobra]

I was watching a show on the Military Channel and I saw a soldier fighting in "the sand box" back circa 2002... He was using a Spyderco Endura to point something out on a map. Don't get much more "tactical" than that. Spyderco does market to the military/LEO/EMS community with special products and their own catalog. They even have people who handle sales just for these folks. Spyderco is in the tactical market as much as anyone.

Why people respond so strongly to this subject is simple. We all know that the more popular something becomes, the greater the chance someone is going to do something stupid and mess it up for everyone else. As our culture has become more urban, there are less and less traditional uses of knives. Working on the farm, cutting up game or livestock, etc... Add to the fact that the American educational system is weapon phobic to the extreme, and every person is raised to see even the smallest of SAK's as a deadly weapon and not a useful tool. The main use most modern folks see for a knife is a weapon, hate to admit that but we must. We can cry "it's a tool" all we want, but we are swimming up stream in the perception department.

So, if knives are marketed as a weapon (read TACTICAL) then people will buy them as a weapon, some idiot will use them as a weapon... Some politician will then seek to ban them. So in short, most savvy knife collector's enthusiast, and the like see the whole tactical knife trend as a slippery slope to a bad landing.

That, and the whole sense that the tactical market is really geared to high drag, low speed overweight middle aged wannabe's who just look painfully wrong. It has just become so clique.

Wow. You really nailed it. This pretty much sums it up for me. Great insight.

[sal]

Hi Eric,

Those that have been around for a while just assume that Spyderco created the tactical market because they were around when we began. We created the first one hand openers, the first clips on folders, and many of our models have always been "tactical" in their performance, even in sheep's clothing. Even Bob Terzoula, who is considered the "father" of tactcial knives says that we were the first.

If you think of tactical in relation to time short requirement as opposed to strategic, our knives fit the description. If you think of "tactical" as a new "look" that has been created in recent years, that's a different story.

I don't think that anyone has "attitude" towards you. Don't take it personal. It is just my opinion, but there are few companies that make really effective reliable tactial performers. Many here have used our knives for a long time, as well s others, and have much experience. If I'm in trouble, I want something that is easy to carry, deploy, use effectively....

The most important abilities about a knife is that you have it with you when you need it. Don't drop it when you need it, it fits your hand well, it cuts well. Try to Broaden your view a bit. Light, strong, reliable, cutting machine, ergonomic, well engineered locks, etc. A knife that will in fact do the job.

Hope that helps.

sal

[Revival]

Hi Eric,

Those that have been around for a while just assume that Spyderco created the tactical market because they were around when we began. We created the first one hand openers, the first clips on folders, and many of our models have always been "tactical" in their performance, even in sheep's clothing. Even Bob Terzoula, who is considered the "father" of tactcial knives says that we were the first.

If you think of tactical in relation to time short requirement as opposed to strategic, our knives fit the description. If you think of "tactical" as a new "look" that has been created in recent years, that's a different story.

I don't think that anyone has "attitude" towards you. Don't take it personal. It is just my opinion, but there are few companies that make really effective reliable tactial performers. Many here have used our knives for a long time, as well s others, and have much experience. If I'm in trouble, I want something that is easy to carry, deploy, use effectively....

The most important abilities about a knife is that you have it with you when you need it. Don't drop it when you need it, it fits your hand well, it cuts well. Try to Broaden your view a bit. Light, strong, reliable, cutting machine, ergonomic, well engineered locks, etc. A knife that will in fact do the job.

Hope that helps.

sal

The man has spoken! Spectactical!

[chuck_roxas45]

That's it.

[eric m.]

I was watching a show on the Military Channel and I saw a soldier fighting in "the sand box" back circa 2002... He was using a Spyderco Endura to point something out on a map. Don't get much more "tactical" than that. Spyderco does market to the military/LEO/EMS community with special products and their own catalog. They even have people who handle sales just for these folks. Spyderco is in the tactical market as much as anyone.

Why people respond so strongly to this subject is simple. We all know that the more popular something becomes, the greater the chance someone is going to do something stupid and mess it up for everyone else. As our culture has become more urban, there are less and less traditional uses of knives. Working on the farm, cutting up game or livestock, etc... Add to the fact that the American educational system is weapon phobic to the extreme, and every person is raised to see even the smallest of SAK's as a deadly weapon and not a useful tool. The main use most modern folks see for a knife is a weapon, hate to admit that but we must. We can cry "it's a tool" all we want, but we are swimming up stream in the perception department.

So, if knives are marketed as a weapon (read TACTICAL) then people will buy them as a weapon, some idiot will use them as a weapon... Some politician will then seek to ban them. So in short, most savvy knife collector's enthusiast, and the like see the whole tactical knife trend as a slippery slope to a bad landing.

That, and the whole sense that the tactical market is really geared to high drag, low speed overweight middle aged wannabe's who just look painfully wrong. It has just become so clique.

Thank you for explaining this! With all the Knife Rights stuff going on, plus everything else, we want to try to shield those that we care about! Got it. Please realize that when I was in the Navy and now as a corrections officer, the word tactical is used all the time! We had tactical readiness evaluations, battlestations tactics and training teams, and now, 5 step tactical plans, tactical resolution teams, and special tactical resolution teams like CERT, CRST, HNT, HRT, etc. Words like Tactics and Tactical are used at every training we have here, so it's no big deal to me! I guess that's why I was having trouble understanding the responses. Didn't take into account how this could harm us here! Thanks again!

[eric m.]

Hi Eric,

Those that have been around for a while just assume that Spyderco created the tactical market because they were around when we began. We created the first one hand openers, the first clips on folders, and many of our models have always been "tactical" in their performance, even in sheep's clothing. Even Bob Terzoula, who is considered the "father" of tactcial knives says that we were the first.

If you think of tactical in relation to time short requirement as opposed to strategic, our knives fit the description. If you think of "tactical" as a new "look" that has been created in recent years, that's a different story.

I don't think that anyone has "attitude" towards you. Don't take it personal. It is just my opinion, but there are few companies that make really effective reliable tactial performers. Many here have used our knives for a long time, as well s others, and have much experience. If I'm in trouble, I want something that is easy to carry, deploy, use effectively....

The most important abilities about a knife is that you have it with you when you need it. Don't drop it when you need it, it fits your hand well, it cuts well. Try to Broaden your view a bit. Light, strong, reliable, cutting machine, ergonomic, well engineered locks, etc. A knife that will in fact do the job.

Hope that helps.

sal

Sal, thanks for chiming in! Yes I do recognize you and your company are very unique, and in a class by yourself among production knife companies. I also recognize the superiority of your products and also the way you try to meet the needs/wants of your customers! I have everything from the Jester to the Szabo, and most others in between and I love them all for their own specific purposes. Was just looking for something on a Stretch frame, but "BUILT LIKE A TANK" for heavy duty use, that is all. Sorry for referring to this knife as a tactical folder. Definitely wasn't trying to start something here like some assumed!

[eric m.]

Let's try a different angle... removing labels. What is it about your Southard that you feel is not rugged enough for hard use? Do you intend to have a thicker blade stock to allow more lateral stresses or are you looking for something with a more robust lock? Maybe you want something with more penetrating capabilities and better tip strength. I think the lack of a clear definition is the major communication hurdle at work here. I personally own MANY spydercos as well as some of the thicker stock knives that you say fit into this PRYBAR category. If I had to purchase a Spyderco to directly compete with them in all categories that I previously mentioned, I would consider the following.

LionSpy
Tuff
Ulize
Police G-10
Military
Manix 2 XL

Was just looking for a "heavy-use" Stretch Line of knives with Ti framelock, thicker blade stock, different blade profile at the tip(Thicker-drop point). The Stretch is my favorite knife in all it's variations, that Spyderco makes! I like the Southard, but it doesn't fit my hand nearly as well as the Stretch, and I like the hump at the rear. I like the blade thickness of the Techno to increase the lateral strength of the blade, yes! :)

[xceptnl]

Was just looking for a "heavy-use" Stretch Line of knives with Ti framelock, thicker blade stock, different blade profile at the tip(Thicker-drop point). The Stretch is my favorite knife in all it's variations, that Spyderco makes! I like the Southard, but it doesn't fit my hand nearly as well as the Stretch, and I like the hump at the rear. I like the blade thickness of the Techno to increase the lateral strength of the blade, yes! :)

When you put it that way, I fully support the idea of a Stretch HD. Heavier blade stock (4mm), Ti Frame, less distal taper to leave more material at the tip, all of these would contribute to a heavy use knife. I would be interested to see Sal dream up something based on your wants. The price would likely be comparable with some of the other makers HDs as well.

[NoFair]

I'd like a frame lock Stretch. I don't need a thicker blade, but grind it right and 4mm can slice very well while still being tough (Techno performs well with a thick blade stock)

An upscaled Techno would also fit the bill; 3-3.5" blade and keeping blade thickness etc.

Discrete colors and no skulls etc... please :D

[Blerv]

They just discontinued the Super Leaf which in some ways was similar to the described.

[MatthewSB]

I've been looking at tactical folding knives from various manufacturers recently and I'm wondering why Spyderco hasn't made any inroads into this area! I'm thinking of Stretch Blade Profile, at least at the rear portion of the blade, with a flipper! I have a Southard, but the Stretch profile would allow for an adequately sized hole with a wide blade for Tactical strength! What do you think? :spyder:

If you want a "tactical" Spyderco, you can buy a Starmate right now. In a few months, the Double Bevel will be out. Both were designed by The Man himself.

Mmmm....tactical knives...Since there is no clear definition on what is a "tactical" knife and mainly used as marketing BS I tend to go on the opinions of those that have been in the industry for some time. People such as Bob Terzuola.

Based on his opinion expressed in his book: Tactical Folding Knife: A Study of the Anatomy and Construction of the Liner-Locked Folder, I draw the conclusion that Spyderco is already making a "tactical" knife.

This is exactly what I thought of when I saw this thread.

If someone wants to see what makes a real tactical knife, all they have to do is image search "Terzuola ATCF" and "Terzuola CQB1".

[Michael Janich]

After Sal's insight, there's not much more to add. However, I will share a story. Several years ago, Sal, Eric, and I met with our UK distributor during the IWA trade show in Germany. One of the distributor's guys, who specializes in sourcing kit for the SAS, went off on a bit of a rant about Spyderco's catalog. Although he had long been a die-hard fan of our products and had sold lots of them to his clients, he felt that the artistic look of our main catalog made it difficult for him to give focused sales presentations to his audience.

This distributor had worked with Spyderco for many years and we respected their feedback and insights, so Sal and Eric decided that Spyderco should have a dedicated catalog and marketing approach to meet that need. The only provision was that we couldn't call it "tactical" because the term was so overused and misunderstood. Kristi and I were tasked with driving the project and after lots of discussion and trial and error, we came up with the term "OpFocus." Short for "operational focus," it represented a focus on our products from the perspective of someone who had an operational interest or obligation (not an "operator," which is another overused, meaningless term). We considered "operational" to be first and foremost duty-bound people like military and law enforcement personnel, security professionals, and first responders. However, we also felt it effectively represented the interests and priorities of survivalists/preppers, martial artists, and those who carry knives as part of their personal-defense plan.

If you look closely at the OpFocus catalog and our consumer catalog, you'll see that about 85% of the products are the same. That's because the vast majority of Spyderco's products are just as functional in a tactical or operational context as they are in a general utility context. What you won't see in the OpFocus catalog are non-locking folders and artistic knives. You also won't see the byrd line, since the OpFocus catalog is used as a primary reference for GSA purchasers, who cannot source Chinese-made products.

In simple terms, Spyderco already has a "tactical" product line. It's represented in our OpFocus catalog. Since Sal single-handedly invented the modern tactical folder more than 30 years ago, "tactical" is in our DNA.

Stay safe,

Mike