S90V Military!!

[Holland]

pretty cool combo, but im also not a fan of BBS and will avoid giving them my business

[Cheddarnut]

FCM415 et al,
We are addicts. As addicts we don't like to be separated from our fix. The good news is pain is growth. The pain of not getting what we want leads us to growth in other areas.
We feel that everyone should aspire to spydercos ethical nature. This is true in life as well. Some parties will be generous and more will be greedy. We become slaves when we compromise our ethics for satisfaction. We have enough already, but we fear losing what we have, which up till now in this example has been seemingly underpriced goods. We have been slavering over the value we've gotten accustomed to and now feel entitled to. Its at times when things are seemingly unobtainable that we get to look at ourselves: do we want this tool because we need another *&^%ing knife, or because we too are greedy, like the people we are attacking. Its called projection. I do it all the time, and luckily have the self awareness to smack myself down when i catch a glimpse. I am greedy, and greed in the right place can be good-greedy for improvement, greedy for health and well being, greedy for enlightenment. We just have to make sure its creative and not destructive. Some one here had a tag that read "more of what does not work will not work" and i keep that in my head every time i expect a knife to change my life. Sorry for the sermon. I like to find the reason beneath the symptoms.

[Cheddarnut]

Also forgive me if i was plagiarizing michael douglas on the greed exerpt. Unintentional.

[FCM415]

Thank you for taking the time. So the look at yourself before you judge others sermon comes out complete with intricate descriptions on the inner workings of the human psyche. That we are all inherently greedy. My only concern here is BBS and their pricing. Nothing less, nothing more. We can all do a better job in life, that is never in contention. What you basically said is boohoo for you, you can't afford something because of wrongly placed principles, get over it. It can be perceived that way sure, but I have a desired end result that you fail to consider.

Here's a scenario, what if all exclusives and sprint runs went the way of this Millie and was sold through BBS under their terms and pricing? Should we just go ho hum about it like what you are alluding? I am speaking "loudly" about this because someone has to. As I said on my first or second post, I know I will catch heat but it's worth it. And it turns out, many feel the same way. Sal himself has warned a dealer because of pricing. Consumers aren't the only ones who has concerns it turns out.

[Orangeneck]

Hi Guys,

I started this thread to give people a heads up on an interesting/desirable spydnie. It was never meant to bash a dealer who was willing to put up the money to commission an exclusive. If you don't like the the price and sales practices, do not buy it. Let's get back into the 'shining footsteps' path.

[FCM415]

Hi Guys,

I started this thread to give people a heads up on an interesting/desirable spydnie. It was never meant to bash a dealer who was willing to put up the money to commission an exclusive. If you don't like the the price and sales practices, do not buy it. Let's get back into the 'shining footsteps' path.

It's really just me that needs to stop. Most everyone else just says they won't buy it for a couple of reasons and its not because of the knife. Sorry for hijacking both of your threads, nothing personal and I never desired to leave shiny footprints and I dont think that I did, I was discussing issues in a forum.

[TomAiello]

So if you pay and they don't have enough knives to fulfill all their paid orders, they won't refund you?

I'm sure Paypal would refund you if that were the case. "Did not receive merchandise" is almost an automatic transaction reversal on Paypal.

Seriously, if that's really the case, I could put up a website advertising s110v PM2's and just take pre-orders with no guarantee of delivery. And then I'd just take peoples money and never deliver. Surely that can't really be what's going on there?

Has anyone actually paid BBS money and never received either merchandise or a refund?

[shunsui]

Well, thanks for making me feel like an idiot, guys. :D

At least I won't get too high tonight or too low tomorrow when buyer's remorse sets in.

I didn't check the forum until 6pm and when I saw the news about the S90V Blue Millie I thought they'd all be gone by then. Then I started reading the thread and everyone was very negative. YES !!!! SCORE !!!

Not saying you guys are all wrong, just happy to pick up a Blue Millie in S90V. Expensive ? Very. After Ca taxes it was a bit over $300. As it turns out my $320 ZT560CFCB order was oversold and cancelled. I passed on the Survive knives S90V email special this week, and passed on a no stamp Sebenza 21 on the exchange. God works in strange ways, a Blue G10 Millie is exactly what I wanted and S90V sealed the deal.

How to rationalize ? Was thinking of buying a second South Fork, but this works ok for me. May pass on the Cruwear Millie and the S90V Manix2 XL. Gotta say I hate the grey G10 and I'm not a big fan of the ball lock.

As for BBS, this is just the M390 Para2 all over again and they're looking pretty good on that one. Be interesting to see if they have multiple runs of this Military and what that does to the ebay prices on the old CF model.

Ok, play nice, we don't want the thread locked.

[Gunslinger]

Is this the first Spyderco with S90v and no carbon fiber? I would love this one but I'm waiting for the CF s90v Yojimbo 2 from Knifeworks. I don't have the funds for both.

[shunsui]

The S90V mule didn't have scales, and the South Fork is G-10, but I don't recall any S90V folders that weren't carbon fiber.

[Orangeneck]

It's really just me that needs to stop. Most everyone else just says they won't buy it for a couple of reasons and its not because of the knife. Sorry for hijacking both of your threads, nothing personal ...

No problemo; no need to apologize. This is just a fun hobby for me. when it stops being fun, I will take up something else.

[FCM415]

Be interesting to see if they have multiple runs of this Military and what that does to the ebay prices on the old CF model.

Interesting to see what this will do to prices of other exclusive/sprint runs as a whole in the future for that matter. If this continues, I won't be able to keep up, it's an expensive enough hobby as it is. I'll have to make do without some of most desirable variations.

[shunsui]

You and me both. Luckily we seem to have hit the sweet spot the last few years on knives. Knives are trending higher in price already and you can be sure there's going to be a round of world wide inflation in a few years when interest rates trend higher.

[Senate]

i'll pass on the dealer...

[chuck_roxas45]

Interesting to see what this will do to prices of other exclusive/sprint runs as a whole in the future for that matter. If this continues, I won't be able to keep up, it's an expensive enough hobby as it is. I'll have to make do without some of most desirable variations.

I do probably have more knives than I can use in a lifetime. I'm sure there are others too.

[Pomelly]

I can only consider that this time is an International sale! What's going on Bento :p ?!

[JNewell]

Yeah ok, it's their right to sell it for $1000 each I suppose. But I'm saying that Spyderco should offer these exclusives to other dealers first, if they did already and BBB was the only one willing then sorry it's my fault but I look at it this way, they sell their Para2 AND Military sprints for drastically more than any other dealer. I hope that there will be many like me who will vote with my wallet and pass. Lack of comparables? The recent green PM2 sprint sold for $140 from KW, while the Blue PM2 is over $200 after shipping and taxes. Want more comparables? The Grey Millie sprint will be $140, the BBB S90v Millie will be $300 after taxes and shipping. Yeah yeah yeah, S90v is more expensive but this is obscene. I'll catch heat for this but someone has to speak up. Can't wait for more defending of their pricing on their entire website. "Don't like it don't buy it" That's right, I don't.

I understand that their turnaround is much smaller than other dealers, but we shouldn't have to suffer because of that, especially when it is their fault that they don't get much traffic on their site with those prices.

Evil D, in regards to your post, I have a thought to humbly offer: If they are able to squeeze in a few sprint runs of these hot knives, they should make those few slots available to someone else first. Not demanding or telling anyone what to do... Just an idea.

Nothing inherently wrong with whatever a site charges for their wares but it is still a douchebag move. I've paid for highly sought after disco'd knives before at market value, I know how it works but still...

You're missing the distinctions in how sprints and exclusives work. Exclusives are initiated by dealers or distributors who pony up for the production and take all the economic risk. Normally, there isn't a lot of risk. On the other hand, with production in Golden running well behind demand, it is a little surprising to see production diverted to exclusives rather than standard production, but we don't know the back story and we should give Spyderco the benefit of the doubt. For all we know, this knife may have been pending for several years.

As far as selling knives for MSRP goes, remember that Spyderco will only sell you knives at MSRP. The more relevant question is just exactly why MSRP on this knife is what it is, but I believe that the market will discipline BBS here. What should be a no-risk knife may in fact take quite a while to sell out. I have no plans to buy one, and I tend to pick up at least one or two of every knife like this...but the price is, as you've already said quite a few times, how to say this politely, an obstacle. :rolleyes:

BDBlue, would you complain as much about KW if you actually were able to secure one from them? Your sentiments may be the same, but you wouldn't be so outspoken about it. I had a feeling someone was going to try to make correlations between this and the green Para and its no surprise that its you as you've been going on an extended rant since you missed out on the limited amount they had for the backup list. People complained that it was a pre-order, now people are complaining that it won't be for preorder. Could they be faulted for offering the knife at such a good/realistic price? Whatever the case, it's getting hard for me to comprehend what your central message is as these (the BBS, and KW) are two are entirely separate matters. We're not talking about flippers, we share a similar sentiment regarding them but the subject is BBS. If you want to throw KW into the fray for a comparison, you may be alone on who you find as the more desirable dealer.

I'd rather take a shot at KW's EXCLUSIVE offerings that sell out fast but priced ideally than paying BBS prices on EXCLUSIVES and highly sought after knives that I will definitely not buy from the get go. I WOULD LOVE TO GET ONE OF THESE NEW MILLIES, but sadly, no. Dealers have the right to sell them for $1000, the goal here is for these prices NOT to become the norm by voting with our wallets.

I think you're on target here...

Interesting to see what this will do to prices of other exclusive/sprint runs as a whole in the future for that matter. If this continues, I won't be able to keep up, it's an expensive enough hobby as it is. I'll have to make do without some of most desirable variations.

Another interesting question. The pricing is obviously driven by crazy recent aftermarket prices; whether it will have the effect of furthering that trend is an interesting question. Here's a way to think about it that may not make you mad: :) this will be an interesting experiment in supply/demand relationships and pricing. We get to watch the movie without having to buy a ticket; it's BBS's investment that they have bet on this race. :spyder:

[JNewell]

I do probably have more knives than I can use in a lifetime. I'm sure there are others too.

Sadly, this is true. :) Then again, maybe it's not sad... :confused: :cool: Maybe the way to think about it is that I"m helping keep Sal & Co. in business. :D

[FCM415]

You're missing the distinctions in how sprints and exclusives work. Exclusives are initiated by dealers or distributors who pony up for the production and take all the economic risk. Normally, there isn't a lot of risk. On the other hand, with production in Golden running well behind demand, it is a little surprising to see production diverted to exclusives rather than standard production, but we don't know the back story and we should give Spyderco the benefit of the doubt. For all we know, this knife may have been pending for several years.

As far as selling knives for MSRP goes, remember that Spyderco will only sell you knives at MSRP. The more relevant question is just exactly why MSRP on this knife is what it is, but I believe that the market will discipline BBS here. What should be a no-risk knife may in fact take quite a while to sell out. I have no plans to buy one, and I tend to pick up at least one or two of every knife like this...but the price is, as you've already said quite a few times, how to say this politely, an obstacle. :rolleyes:

Hey bud! I actually am not missing the fact that exclusives are initiated by dealers who pony up for them, well aware of it which is why I am careful to call it an exclusive and not a sprint. My point was that if there are a few slots available to squeeze in an exclusive or two out of their already full plate, I was humbly suggesting that in the future, they forego BBS's orders and give "the honor" of exclusives to other dealers instead if they are gonna turn around and charge these prices when comparatively, what other dealers charge have been very stable. True, we do not know how long this was in the works, but KW's Yo and Manix XL sprints were announced a year ago, S90V and CF and are priced very differently comparitvely, also I have emailed Jeff from CS and he has exclusives on queue as well. I've said time and again already that I acknowledge the fact that BBS can sell one for a billion dollars, it is their right. But WE ALL would appreciate the end result in which these knives remain stable price wise from primary dealers. Like I said, what if all future exclusives end up like this Millie? Then what? A bunch of standard black G10 S30v's for me is what. :p

As far as MSRP, many companies from all walks go by MSRP if they sell on their site. Could be a means to not undermine dealers, who knows but the concern here are a particular dealer and not Spyderco. I would never buy a standard knife available to dealers direct from Spyderco, that's just the way it is and is by design.

I am quite pleased that many will vote with their wallet, it is hard I know as this is such an awesome knife.

[FCM415]

Just a recap:

Preorder non refundable, sucks but par for the course.
Preorder is pay 100% up front with NO guarantees, if they oversell you are on your own. (what does that mean?)
Charging $270 with shipping $7 extra, who charges for shipping when over $100-150 purchases?
Insurance extra? WTF happens if USPS loses it and you don't pay insurance?
Absolutely no returns. No customer service.
Price is over $300 after taxes and shipping and insurance if you live in CA.

Don't agree with the terms, don't buy it.