Deleted the Tuff thread, have a good one yall.

[spydie777]

I thought a few people were a bit far reaching in their accusations of why the knife failed and some were a bit combative. I would be mad at some of the responses too, but to take your ball and go home and end it the way he did makes him look even more foolish. Oh well, I guess we'll never know if it was out of spec, a bad mod, faulty design, or user error. I wasn't going to buy a Tuff in the first place but the old thread sure had my interest nonetheless.

[Blerv]

Delivery is a huge part of conversation. I don't think the OP did the worst job possible but it was far from the best job possible.

I know some folks who could get in a fist fight at a retirement home. Others that could probably talk themselves out of an encounter with an LA Gang. If you take the podium I believe you have the responsibility to:

1. Present a compelling point and/or
2. Present an empathetic stance and/or
3. Care less about how people respond

The world is full of calculated debate champs, charming sympathy magnets, and apathetic folks. If you don't succeed at one (or more) of those typically it's going to be a rough discussion.

[Cheddarnut]

We need a better smilie selection to offset the lack of tone in written comments :D :)

[DRKBC]

It was a painful thread. I didn't disagree with the post or his right to post it and I understand the frustration. I think as many people have said that when Spyderco offered to solve the problem that’s likely where it should have stopped until the results were in. That being said blogging and texting is a strange way to communicate and it is always interesting to see the many paths something like this can take as things get misconstrued, twisted around and generally head off to points unknown. It’s not any one person’s fault but it probably wouldn’t happen in a face to face conversation.

Just as a side bar - My own experience with Spyderco's warranty has been really positive and free of drama; I had an issue with a knife that was out of production, first I called the people I bought it from they said to get in touch with Spyderco which I did and they asked me to send in the knife. As the knife was no longer in production and they couldn't replace they gave me the option to take any knife in current production of the same value (even a sprint). I felt they were more than fair solved the problem and I left a happy customer. In fact in the end I missed the knife I returned so much that I found a dealer that had some old stock and I bought another one.

[sal]

DC,

Sorry about that. Seems like much was avoidable. You do have a role in this, like it or not.

To those that "attacked" DC, It certainly isn't behavior we like on our forum. Perhaps you need to evaluate your reasons? We prefer a civil forum.

As far as the model goes. We shipped 1156 pieces before we stopped shipping so we could evaluate the 3 that claimed defeats. Certainly it's important for us to inspect the models and determine the problem so we can solve it. To date we have not received any Tuff's in customer service for any reason. We believe we have one that might be coming back. "Tis a puzzlement.

sal

[Bladekeeper]

Just viewing this thread I can say I 100% agree with evild things get lost in translation when typing as sal said being derogotory is serving to lower your own image.
Standing up for yourself against bullying is a different subject though however the post by the op of the thread in question wishing folk " bad tidings" sums up the attitude and contradicts everything they said , regarding people jumping on them.
There is a hierarchy on these forums and in a sense if they have spent many hours contributing to the good of the site then respect.
But the same folk can take a I was here first attitude , again one of the things mentioned is the Internet is faceless and as a result people troll to fill the lack of contribution to actual society .
A quote from a Wordsworth poem sums it up for me "it saddens me to see what man has done to man" .
What's wrong with being nice it seems to be looked upon as blowing smoke when compliments are made and kindness is a weakness me I ain't gonna join em if I can't beat em I just pity them.

[araneae]

I read the Tuff thread and could tell it wasn't going to be pretty. However, Sal and Co did as they always do and acted respectfully and attempted to resolve things. The OP apparently opted to not resolve the problem.

It's generally sad to see someone leave the forum. To leave in such a manner (his last words were wishing ill towards forum members) certainly makes you wonder though. I guess I've been around a while and I do remember a friendlier atmosphere than there has been as of late. We all need to remember that even though we are typing from behind a computer screen, we are still talking to other human beings and should treat each other with respect. Think before you post. And remember not to take anything too seriously here, after all its just a knife forum.

[Slash]

I didn't read, nor cared to read the whole tuff thing. For what it's worth, good luck with the outcome of your knife.
IMHO, deleting a thread is none constructive though.

Thicker skin is all that's needed here.

[Cheddarnut]

I think this sums it up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg3vzl_V ... ata_player

[KardinalSyn]

Issues with Spydie folders can and will come up. I think the best method would be to contact Spyderco W&R direct when one knows that there is a definite issue and later once the matter is concluded, to post on the forum.

Of course, help and assistance will always be offered to those that ask for it on the Spyderco Forum.

[ricechrispy]

DC, I'm going to miss seeing your ambitious mods and the great information and enthusiasm you've brought to this forum. Sorry that your participation has come to such a dramatic end. Like others, I encourage you to look deeper into how you set a combative tone from the beginning in the thread in which your feelings got hurt. Honestly, I think your outcry against the way some people treated you in that thread is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black (see the last sentence in the OP of this thread for more of that). A good idea would be to compare your original post in the "Tuff Not So Tuff" thread (if you can still access is since it's deleted) to Jet B's post describing a similar issue. You'll notice that Jet B didn't get much heat from others because he was never sensationalistic, he posted picture evidence, and he made clear his intentions to send the knife in. Just the name of the thread, "Tuff Not So Tuff," was inflammatory and sure to attract eyeballs and strong reactions. Anyhow, if you read this, I hope you reconsider and come back to the forum with some greater self-awareness.

[Cliff Stamp]

Thicker skin is all that's needed here.

As a general comment, if it is required to have "thick skin" to participate in this forum then the actions of the more zealous forum members are causing Spyderco to lose customer by their actions as lots of people are not going to participate in a forum where this is required as there are actually friendly places to discuss hobbies and they will simply do there.

Of what value is attacking a customer of Spyderco who looked forward to talking about his knives and enjoyed it to such an extend that he no longer enjoys it. Not only is he not going to participate here it likely left him with a bad taste which will influence commentary he has outside of the forum.

There is no benefit in attacking customers who discuss knives, leave the moderation to the professionals like Sal who have the experience, mentality and simply level of class required to respond to customers in that manner. No one is helping Sal or Spyderco by aggravating customers in that manner and it degrades the forum and promotes the perception that this is a forum for shills and not open discussion of the products.

[ricechrispy]

Of what value is attacking a customer of Spyderco who looked forward to talking about his knives and enjoyed it to such an extend that he no longer enjoys it. Not only is he not going to participate here it likely left him with a bad taste which will influence commentary he has outside of the forum.

Agreed.

[nullity]

As a general comment, if it is required to have "thick skin" to participate in this forum then the actions of the more zealous forum members are causing Spyderco to lose customer by their actions as lots of people are not going to participate in a forum where this is required as there are actually friendly places to discuss hobbies and they will simply do there.

Of what value is attacking a customer of Spyderco who looked forward to talking about his knives and enjoyed it to such an extend that he no longer enjoys it. Not only is he not going to participate here it likely left him with a bad taste which will influence commentary he has outside of the forum.

There is no benefit in attacking customers who discuss knives, leave the moderation to the professionals like Sal who have the experience, mentality and simply level of class required to respond to customers in that manner. No one is helping Sal or Spyderco by aggravating customers in that manner and it degrades the forum and promotes the perception that this is a forum for shills and not open discussion of the products.

Good post, Cliff. :)

With text being such a lacking way of communication, I think thick skin is a requirement if you're participating in any online forum.
With so much miscommunication and misinterpretation we can't let our emotions run wild.
Though, I'm sure there are times when people purposely mean to offend, and "thick skin" helps there too. (Thick skin = +5 to troll resistance? :p )

[The Deacon]

There's a difference between suggesting someone needs or should have a thick skin to participate here and suggesting that someone who has demonstrated they have an extremely thin one might find this and other online forums less stressful with a somewhat thicker one.

[Blerv]

I know Sal's team should not have to babysit us but there are multiple moderators. Sal, Kristi, Mike Janich, etc. Let's assume if they see someone who is out of line. Perhaps even more than once and it's less than provoked. What is stopping them from handing out warnings or banning them completely?

We all know that brazen personal attacks, vulgarity, and all that is clearly wrong. Additionally we should all be somewhat cautious of how the written word can be taken, quick to apologize (even if not "wrong" but for words taken as "hurtful").


Edit: Cut out the last whimsical bit.

[Cliff Stamp]

I think thick skin is a requirement if you're participating in any online forum.

Here is what I would ask, would you want this forum to become known for a place that people should come only if they have a thick skin? I would ask the following question as well, is it really necessary or even useful for forum members to attack, criticize or even imply character defects in other members?

Lets assume you make a post about a knife and based on its performance you reach a conclusion. There are only two possibilities, your conclusion is supported by your data or it isn't. Now I can respond to either of those discussing each. However if the conclusion isn't supported by the data is there any value in me making character inferences on you because of that?

That is the part I would argue has no place in these kinds of forums, discuss the data, discuss the conclusions, have fun, but there is no need, purpose or even use in discussing the supposed character defects of other members unless the specific intention is to degrade the forum and cause loss to Spyderco as that is the direct result.

[nullity]

There's a difference between suggesting someone needs or should have a thick skin to participate here and suggesting that someone who has demonstrated they have an extremely thin one might find this and other online forums less stressful with a somewhat thicker one.

Ooooohhhhh. I think I see what you're saying.

I still think thick skin is a requirement. I don't want someone to think I'm attacking them personally simply because I disagree with what they say.
When the debate becomes emotionally charged, it can easily spiral out of control.
Then again, I guess someone can be offended and still post a respectful reply.

I could be wrong, and I'm willing to accept that without being personally offended. :)

PS - In response to Cliff's post, I never meant to imply that personal attacks are acceptable.

[defenestrate]

DCDesigns,
Sorry to see you leaving. I appreciated your contributions here. Good luck with future endeavors, and hope to see you back again in time, should you have more time/feel more like doing so.

[BAL]

Take care DC.