- how did you make your scales fit 100% flush with your handle without scratching off the DLC? ..... Thats the only way you could do it without scratching the coat.
Any pictures for proof? Id like to see a DLC'd mule!
(1) I understand what you meant now. Yes, I sanded off the coating around the scales. The "two tone edge" does not bother me.
(2) Better yet, see a # 10 post titled "PICS and Thoughts: Caly 3.5 Super Blue Steel and Chaparral" on 08-09-2011 of my coated MT converted to a folder. If you need to see more pictures, let me know. I will try to post them. ( I am just not good in getting these pictures from my camera to here, sorry.)
Paul
:spyder: Sage1, Stretch II CE-sold, S35VN Mule,Manix 2 CTS-XHP, Delica BRG ZDP-189 PE, Manix 2 CPM M4, Para 2 CTS-20CP :), M390 Mule, #Southard Flipper, Left Hand Millie, Para 2 204P :D, Delica Super blue It is a mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle
datoudaw wrote:(1) I understand what you meant now. Yes, I sanded off the coating around the scales. The "two tone edge" does not bother me.
(2) Better yet, see a # 10 post titled "PICS and Thoughts: Caly 3.5 Super Blue Steel and Chaparral" on 08-09-2011 of my coated MT converted to a folder. If you need to see more pictures, let me know. I will try to post them. ( I am just not good in getting these pictures from my camera to here, sorry.)
WHAT< you converted it into a folder!? this I have to see, looking it up now.
hunterseeker5 wrote:Damnit I was just about to suggest 9V :P
Or 15V?
15v seems to tick all the boxes in high carbon and high carbide content. I sort of assumed it might be to hard to machine for spyderco to mess with. Id love to know more about it though.
Elmax as I would like to see what Spyderco can get it's hardness to(61???) and seeing the reviews, easy to touch up, tough and maintain an edge close to that of M390 if it is 61HRC, sounds like a winner to me- M390 being my favourite from a maintenace point of view- I would put Elmax first on my wish list for the mule.
S110V as you just have to have it- would relish the challenge to work it, reprofile and maintain it.
10V- same reasons as S110V, and Mr Ankerson rates it(enough said).
great thread, as I carry my Mule as an EDC, just started collecting millies, I currently have 3mules in M390, love them.
DCDesigns wrote:good god what is that? sounds like a scifi show or something...
I think it is SciFi by the sound of things :D
And here is what Des Horn has to say about it. (Same Des Horn that has the collaboration with Spyderco)
Des Horn wrote:As can be seen from the chart posted NITROBE 77 has almost no Carbon (0.1%) which has been replaced with Nitrogen at 0.9%.
Being the local sole agent for Damasteel I received an experimental batch and have been using it for the last year .
It is absolutely stainless and can be put in a dishwasher!
It is tougher than RWL 34 at a hardness of 62HRC .
Its most impressive feature is its super sharpness. As a result of the size of the molecules it has a much finer edge geometry than RWL34 making it sharper.
It machines, grinds and polishes fantastically but it does have drawbacks for the maker.
There is de-nitrogenisation of the surface during heat treating.
Still in the experimental stage we do not know exactly how deep this is so I am heat treating at full thickness and grinding hard.
The heat treating is complex with four (yes 4) cryogenic quenches in liquid nitrogen between hardening at 1100°C and three 1 hour tempering cycles at 480°C .
Nitrobe 77 shows more potential as the ultimate knife steel than anything I have worked with to date.
There are a number of excellent blade steels available but Nitrobe 77 is harder sharper and tougher than anything I have ever used.
Des Horn wrote:NITROBE 77 is available at this time but only in 2mm thick.
I must stress we are still in the experimental stage !
I am expecting a batch of 3.2 and 4mm thick within 2 months.
Another concern is that some folks will try and cut corners and not heat treat to factory specifications.(The Liquid nitrogen cryogenic treatment is absolutely vital.)
One option considered is that blades be heat treated by me.
Des Horn wrote:The original idea was to use NITROBE 77 for mechanical cutters and commercial blender type machines.
Samples were sent to manufacturers in Europe who after some months replied almost unanimously that they were extremely impressed and that blades tended to last 3 times longer than the steels currently in use
BUT..............the heat treating was too complex for them and they would also prefer to sell 3 blades than only one!
"If you wish to live and thrive, let the spider run alive" "the perfect knife is the one in your hand, you should just learn how to use it." If you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything at all
Elmax as I would like to see what Spyderco can get it's hardness to(61???) and seeing the reviews, easy to touch up, tough and maintain an edge close to that of M390 if it is 61HRC, sounds like a winner to me- M390 being my favourite from a maintenace point of view- I would put Elmax first on my wish list for the mule.
S110V as you just have to have it- would relish the challenge to work it, reprofile and maintain it.
10V- same reasons as S110V, and Mr Ankerson rates it(enough said).
great thread, as I carry my Mule as an EDC, just started collecting millies, I currently have 3mules in M390, love them.
There is really nothing like S110V, 10V and K294 done right (Around 63 HRC and Sub Zeroed), they are all so far ahead of S90V in edge retention it would be mind blowing for some.
Ankerson wrote:There is really nothing like S110V, 10V and K294 done right (Around 63 HRC and Sub Zeroed), they are all so far ahead of S90V in edge retention it would be mind blowing for some.
Thank you Sir,
It is a daunting prospect for me, as these steels I would purchase to experiment with maintenance only, personally I do not see myself using them for EDC if Sal pulls it off- having said that the millie would be worth getting though for the kitchen...???
You guys sure must be rich to talk about such highly alloyed steel mules. Some will run into costs equaling top of the line 2012 Spyderco models.
I've been happy getting steels like Super blue, Cobalt special, and cruware. These are exotic enough for me. I think the super alloys should be low volume, custom one offs for max performance.
I learned the difference by having a production blade in S110V at around rc 59, and then found what S110V really was with a custom Phil Wilson S110V at rc 63.5. It's all the difference in the world, to be honest. Might as well be a different steel. There again it's my opinion Spyderco could do it better than RC 59, along with the mule blade would put it at or above many $5-600 custom hunting type knives I see getting sold at shows with various home made Damascus and home rolled tool steels from backyard barbeque grills. I'm not putting those knives down, rightly I believe Spyderco does it better in the laser slicing, comfortable mule design.
Steels like 52100 at rc 62, or the super blue mules at something similar are perfect for the mule team IMO. Getting to see these steels stretch their legs for me was nice as the knives I had in them weren't as high performing for different reasons.
Try to think of what the Mule team does very well and stick with that would be my vote. IMO, the best so far have been the 52100, CPM M4, S90V, Super Blue. These are not exceeded by any production manufacturers I've yet found, and I've been looking.
My opinion anyway.
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
hunterseeker5 wrote:Isn't 110v just backing off from 125v though?
I doubt anyone will get any S125V in quanties for a production run and if they did it would be VERY expensive.
Then they would have to find someone to work with it and HT it the way it really should be.... Around 64-65 HRC and Sub Zeroed...... In a production run.....
There are reasons why we only see it in Customs and very few at that....
Guy Vanderveken wrote:Thank you Sir,
It is a daunting prospect for me, as these steels I would purchase to experiment with maintenance only, personally I do not see myself using them for EDC if Sal pulls it off- having said that the millie would be worth getting though for the kitchen...???
Cheers,
Guy
Any of those steels is well worth it IMO, they are at the top of the food chain as user steels go IMO. :)
The Mastiff wrote:You guys sure must be rich to talk about such highly alloyed steel mules. Some will run into costs equaling top of the line 2012 Spyderco models.
I've been happy getting steels like Super blue, Cobalt special, and cruware. These are exotic enough for me. I think the super alloys should be low volume, custom one offs for max performance.
I learned the difference by having a production blade in S110V at around rc 59, and then found what S110V really was with a custom Phil Wilson S110V at rc 63.5. It's all the difference in the world, to be honest. Might as well be a different steel. There again it's my opinion Spyderco could do it better than RC 59, along with the mule blade would put it at or above many $5-600 custom hunting type knives I see getting sold at shows with various home made Damascus and home rolled tool steels from backyard barbeque grills. I'm not putting those knives down, rightly I believe Spyderco does it better in the laser slicing, comfortable mule design.
Steels like 52100 at rc 62, or the super blue mules at something similar are perfect for the mule team IMO. Getting to see these steels stretch their legs for me was nice as the knives I had in them weren't as high performing for different reasons.
Try to think of what the Mule team does very well and stick with that would be my vote. IMO, the best so far have been the 52100, CPM M4, S90V, Super Blue. These are not excelled by any production manufacturers I've yet found, and I've been looking.
My opinion anyway.
Yeah S110V at 59 HRC is a waste of good steel, IMO the best stainless knife steel to date to ever hit the knife industry IMO.... Done right there is nothing else like it or even close in the way it performs overall.
It's a tragedy at the very least and I just can't post the words for it in the forum for how I really feel...
Other than who ever gave the order to do it at 59 HRC should be castrated...
Why even bother hardening it at all, just leave it in the annealed state and sell it like that if all they are going to do is 59....
I'm pretty sure Niagara has S125V in stock. What sizes are unknown. It's a beast of a steel but very brittle and so carbided it doesn't produce the fine slicing, savage edges of the lower carbide steels, nor the edge strength and stability found in even 10V. Practically speaking that ( A11 class including 10V) is for now probably the pinnacle of performance. More wear than S110V, tough as D2 and more stable ( excellent for high carbide steels).
Still , we do like to play mad scientist. I'm going to get a custom in CPM 15 even though I think 10V/A11/K294 is the better all around steel.
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
Why even bother hardening it at all, just leave it in the annealed state and sell it like that if all they are going to do is 59....
I think the first batch of S125V came near rc 50 annealed supposedly. I believe some makers were able to get it down further with more work. It also had a bunch of surface cracks and needed blanchard grinding amongst other things that were learned. I think the new batch is better, but no one wants anything to do with it.
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
SQSAR wrote:That's a good idea. As much as I love the new "super-steels" I'd take at least one in 1095. That's a classic steel if there ever was one.
Yeah! An old beater steel for a Mule you could truly abuse. Cost would be dirt cheap too, sort of like the Chicom steel of the MT05. Heck, maybe they'd even parkerize them for us! :spyder:
I'm serious--I'd buy another low cost Mule.
Not Forgotten:
LCpl. John Dewey Killen III
MSgt. Timothy Roy Bodden
Don't the sun look angry through the trees?
Don't the trees look like crucified thieves?
I doubt anyone will get any S125V in quanties for a production run and if they did it would be VERY expensive.
Then they would have to find someone to work with it and HT it the way it really should be.... Around 64-65 HRC and Sub Zeroed...... In a production run.....
There are reasons why we only see it in Customs and very few at that....
My point wasn't that you can't get it, and if you can you can't work it. My point was that 110V is just backing off from 125v. So if maximum wear resistance and high hardness is the name of the game why not cut the foreplay? Will spyderco do it in a mule run? I'd bet you eight million dollars that we won't see a mule in anything like that steel for at least three years. (there has to be an arbitrary cutoff for when uber plasma carbon fiber laser turbocharged kevlar X grinders come out) So in the famous words of someone..... "if I'm #1 why bother trying?" :P
I missed out on the CPM-M4 mule so a mule in Bohler S690 would be another chance for me.
After reviewing the posts practicality is getting to me and I am thinking 3V should have gotten my vote.
Overall though it looks like people are really interested in the A11 stuff. I would prefer Bohler K390 as it is supposed to be tougher with close to the same edge holding.
