YANWDW Sharpmaker

[Swedge]

I don't rotate the blade. I put a slight amount or rotational pressure either clockwise or counterclockwise depending on left or right stone.

So the blade still stays straight up and down but there is more pressure against the stone on the bottom of the blade than the top?

[losabio]

So the blade still stays straight up and down but there is more pressure against the stone on the bottom of the blade than the top?

Your blade tapers to a point if you look at it from the top. If you hold your arm perfectly perpendicular to the stone when viewed from the top, you'll probably just hit the corners of the triangle. You want the blade perpendicular to the table top, yes. You may or may not be perfectly square from the top when you're facing the sharp maker. From the top, angle your arm and the blade (like the hand of a clock) until you're contacting the flat of the stone for the entire sharpening stroke.

I'm a newb at the SM too, but I was sharpening my Urban less than 10 mins ago, so the memory's still fresh and I happened to pop into this thread.

[trucker1964]

Yes! I think thats exactly what I am trying to say. Sorry I'm not good at writing.
Yes by putting what I call rotational pressure I am twisting the edge and edge only to the stone. The muscles I use to do this have very fine control compared to say my shoulder muscles which I could use to move my whole arm toward the stone. I am then able to work against the stone to keep the blade straight up and down its sorta like a balance. The muscles used to do this have fine control and do not become fatigued.

If you can develop a way of controlling the blade so that it stays straight up and down you will get a perfect edge and it will not take long at all.

I had trouble clamping my Paramilitary blade in my lansky so that it was straight up and down. The angle on each side of the blade did not match because of this. When I first took the Paramilitary to the Sharpmaker on the 30 degree setting I would get a very fine micro bevel on the right side of the blade and on the left I would be hitting way up on the shoulder. I knew I was holding the knife well so I took the diamond sticks and in about 10 minutes took the left side down to 15 degrees. Now my blade is set up to maintain on the Sharpmaker.
Hope this helps.

[mbhanzo]

Something I've noticed recently: destroying a burr by using a more obtuse angle using a very coarse stone seems to also destroy the edge quite badly, requiring quite a bit more swiping to get an edge again.

From now on, when I get a burr, I'll destroy it by using my Fine stone at a higher angle and then go 1-1 and raise a proper edge again.

When you get your burr dont raise to a higher angel.. You end up shortening your edge making it more rounded.. You are correct in using the finer abrasive but you should slightly lower the angle for some of your strokes to polish the shoulder of the edge and then ideally you match the same angle as with the coarse stone until it has the same polished finish you created on the shoulder.. When you have the edge polished with the fine stones you may have a slight burr... There are different schools of thought on the best way to remove this burr.. If you use a stone you will slightly raise the angle but this is ever so slight.. The amount of pressure you are using on the knife against the abrasive also has to be much lower or you end up creating a larger burr and destroying all of your hard work... The other school is that you strop the edge until the burr is gone... This is easier and more foolproof for most users... You use a loaded strop so that you gently polish and abrade the burr away.. I use both methods depending on several factors and what type of edge I'm trying to achieve... Practice Practice Practice.... :D

[Swedge]

When you get your burr dont raise to a higher angel.. you should slightly lower the angle for some of your strokes

I'm not clear on what you mean by lowering the angle. If I am sharpening with the Sharpmaker, do I tilt the spine of the blade more toward the stone I am using to sharpen or more toward the opposite stone?

[mbhanzo]

I'm not clear on what you mean by lowering the angle. If I am sharpening with the Sharpmaker, do I tilt the spine of the blade more toward the stone I am using to sharpen or more toward the opposite stone?

More toward the stone you are using.. You're on the right track... :)

[mbhanzo]

Depending on what knife and what steel you may be best to finish your blade on the flats of the mediums and then go into stropping.. This usually leaves a semi polished edge that will easily shave hair and is still a bit toothy.. This toothy or micro serrated edge is a very good overall daily use edge for many plain edge knives..

[THG]

When you get your burr dont raise to a higher angel.. You end up shortening your edge making it more rounded..

Yes, that's what I do. I shorten the edge; there is then a microbevel. Then I grind again and raise an edge with no burr, or minimal burr at the most.

[Swedge]

OK, I decided to take another crack at sharpening a knife, this time a Henckels kitchen knife. This knife is about 25 years old. It was steeled from time to time, but it was never sharpened. The composition of the steel is unknown beyond being stainless steel. The blade is marked Friodur. The spine of the blade is thin.

First I tried sharpening it at 40° but I noticed via the Sharpie markings that the bevels weren't even. I figured I would rebevel at 30°. I remarked the blade with the Sharpie and had at it with the Spyderco diamond stones for the Sharpmaker. Man, I don't know what it is but it seems to take forever to rebevel with the diamond stones. (And I'm sure glad I'm not trying to do it with the coarse (brown/grey) stones!) I am sure that I spent over an hour using just the corners of the diamond stones. Eventually, I got the edges so that there was no marker at all on the back side of the blade and just a smidgen on the obverse side.

Here is where I think I made a mistake. In the interest of not raising a burr, I tried to sneak up on the edge by coming close but not too close (such that it raised a burr). But that I believe that I may have left too thick an edge.

I switched in the coarse (brown/grey) stones, and polished the edge (first using corners and then the flats). I even did a little with the fine (white) stones (also using corners and then the flats) but not much.

Here is where I think I made my second mistake. I failed to observe Vampyrewolf's admonition to polish the 30° edge as finely as possible. I was perhaps a bit too eager to be done with the project. I only polished a little.

I switched over to the 40° angle on the Sharpmaker and made a microbevel with several strokes on the coarse (brown/grey) stones and then on the fine (white) ones. I did more on the 40° than Vampyrewolf recommended.

Next time I am going to re-read the posts here first and then sharpen (not sharpen first and then re-read).

In the end, I had a reasonably sharp edge but not as sharp as it could be.

Comments welcome.

[THG]

First I tried sharpening it at 40° but I noticed via the Sharpie markings that the bevels weren't even.

Most of the time bevels AREN'T even on knives, at least from what I've experienced. On my Leatherman Blast's blade (which I just sharpened for the first time on my Sharpmaker, also the first time I've used this system "properly") one side was < 30˚, and the other was a little bit over. I was able to get it shaving-sharp in about 15 minutes, to my surprise.

I figured I would rebevel at 30°. I remarked the blade with the Sharpie and had at it with the Spyderco diamond stones for the Sharpmaker. Man, I don't know what it is but it seems to take forever to rebevel with the diamond stones. (And I'm sure glad I'm not trying to do it with the coarse (brown/grey) stones!) I am sure that I spent over an hour using just the corners of the diamond stones. Eventually, I got the edges so that there was no marker at all on the back side of the blade and just a smidgen on the obverse side.

Using the corners will take longer because there is less surface area of the stones touching the blade. Rebeveling in general takes a long time already by nature.

Here is where I think I made a mistake. In the interest of not raising a burr, I tried to sneak up on the edge by coming close but not too close (such that it raised a burr). But that I believe that I may have left too thick an edge.

You're going to have to get to the edge one way or another. If not, you're gonna have a dull edge.

Here is where I think I made my second mistake. I failed to observe Vampyrewolf's admonition to polish the 30° edge as finely as possible. I was perhaps a bit too eager to be done with the project. I only polished a little.

You mean the back bevel (not the primary, the one that leads to the edge)? I don't think it needs to be polished. That isn't going to be part of the edge, so it shouldn't affect the sharpness. I finish all my edges with a microbevel with my Sharpmaker's fine stone, but my backbevel is only finished with my DMT Fine (which happens to be much coarser than the white sharpmaker stones).

I switched over to the 40° angle on the Sharpmaker and made a microbevel with several strokes on the coarse (brown/grey) stones and then on the fine (white) ones. I did more on the 40° than Vampyrewolf recommended.

Whenever I do a microbevel, I just use the finest stone I have. If not, then you're going to be grinding away too much metal, imo. It's a microbevel because it's supposed to be so small you can't see it, but it's there.

Personally, I don't see any reason in using a coarse stone again to make a microbevel; I'd just jump right into the finest available stone.

[mbhanzo]

Most of the time bevels AREN'T even on knives, at least from what I've experienced. On my Leatherman Blast's blade (which I just sharpened for the first time on my Sharpmaker, also the first time I've used this system "properly") one side was < 30˚, and the other was a little bit over. I was able to get it shaving-sharp in about 15 minutes, to my surprise.



Using the corners will take longer because there is less surface area of the stones touching the blade. Rebeveling in general takes a long time already by nature.



You're going to have to get to the edge one way or another. If not, you're gonna have a dull edge.



You mean the back bevel (not the primary, the one that leads to the edge)? I don't think it needs to be polished. That isn't going to be part of the edge, so it shouldn't affect the sharpness. I finish all my edges with a microbevel with my Sharpmaker's fine stone, but my backbevel is only finished with my DMT Fine (which happens to be much coarser than the white sharpmaker stones).



Whenever I do a microbevel, I just use the finest stone I have. If not, then you're going to be grinding away too much metal, imo. It's a microbevel because it's supposed to be so small you can't see it, but it's there.

Personally, I don't see any reason in using a coarse stone again to make a microbevel; I'd just jump right into the finest available stone.

Using the corners is faster and removes more material faster because of the reduced surface contact giving the ceramic more bite.

There are no shortcuts in sharpening.. There are ways to do the job fast sometimes on certain blade and edge types.. Some knives can only be sharpened correctly by hand on stones... Polished primary shoulders on cutting edges always reduce drag and improves cutting.. Polished edges can cut better and longer sometimes and othertimes you will find a polished yet sligtly toothy edge will work better.. This will all depend on blade steel, heat treatment, blade geometry, and the material being cut...

Creating a micro bevel is only a good option if you have a very wide primary edge or you will end up making the knife more blunt and less sharp..

You really should do yourself a favor and get a set of good bench stones...
The sharpmaker is a great tool to touch up and resharpen knives that have overall good edge condition with little damage other than just being a bit dull... If you are trying to take very dull knives and make them sharp you can get it done with a Sharpmaker but you would be much better off with a few more tools to work with...

[Swedge]

I did some more work on the Henckels kitchen knife. I decided to go back to the 30° angles on the Sharpmaker. I thought that the diamond SM stones might leave too ragged an edge, so I used the coarse (brown/grey) stones. Once again, it took a lot longer than I expected. OTOH, it's kind of therapeutic.

I continued until I raised a bit of a burr. Very tiny. I knocked off the burr and did a number of alternating strokes. It's interesting, but after that, even with a 10x loupe, I couldn't see a burr, and I couldn't detect one with a fingernail. But dragging the blade across (and away) from my fingertip, I could feel one side was smoother than the other. I stroked until both sides felt equally smooth. I can't say that I knocked the burr back and forth, but I ended up with a reasonably sharp edge with no apparent burr.

I did a little polishing at 30° with the fine white SM stones. Once I get it as polished as I can, I will try the ultrafine stones.

The front 2/3 of the edge can slice hanging newsprint on a diagonal. Not push cut; I have to using a slicing motion. But nonetheless much sharper than before. The back 1/3 of the edge, near the choil, is not as sharp. I assume this is because the part near the choil gets pulled off the stone right away and doesn't get as much abrasion. How do I the part near the choil sharp with the SM?

[Swedge]

You really should do yourself a favor and get a set of good bench stones...
The sharpmaker is a great tool to touch up and resharpen knives that have overall good edge condition with little damage other than just being a bit dull... If you are trying to take very dull knives and make them sharp you can get it done with a Sharpmaker but you would be much better off with a few more tools to work with...

I agree entirely. I had heard the same advice before, but then I saw posts about how the diamond SM stones really removed metal, and I figured they would solve the problem. To some extent they do, but not enough.

For me, the question is how far do I go investing in equipment. I really don't have that many knives to sharpen.

So another question is what is the poor boy method of reprofiling? Adhere a sheet of sandpaper to a flat surface, like glass or polished granite? What type of paper, grit, etc., and how to adhere it?

[vampyrewolf]

Sandpaper on a mousepad will work well on a blade to convex it, or on glass or granite to give a smooth flat surface for a normal edge... but you'll be working a while.

I convexed my ss dragonfly over about a week in 2002 and have long since thinned the edge down (as well as the blade thickness). Silicon Carbide (SiC) sandpaper will last longer than Aluminum Oxide (AO) but also costs more.

The "best" way to reprofile an edge is to get either a course DMT or AO stone, a hunk of non-slip surface (rubber drawer liner works well), and go at it. Depending on steel, thickness, and how much you want to drop the bevel... probably take 30-45min to turn a 40deg edge into a 20deg edge on most knives. I usually take about 10-15 to turn a 40deg into a 30deg with my 200/300 combo stone and close to an hour before I'm done that edge with it popping hair.

I'm still in favor of power tools though :p

[Swedge]

Sandpaper on a mousepad will work well on a blade to convex it, or on glass or granite to give a smooth flat surface for a normal edge... but you'll be working a while.

More time or less time than with the diamond SM stones?

[Swedge]

The "best" way to reprofile an edge is to get either a course DMT or AO stone

What are the pro's and cons of DMT vs. AO stone?

[Swedge]

I usually take about 10-15 to turn a 40deg into a 30deg with my 200/300 combo stone and close to an hour before I'm done that edge with it popping hair.

After you're at 30°, what are you doing for the rest of the hour?

[vampyrewolf]

For me, the question is how far do I go investing in equipment. I really don't have that many knives to sharpen.

stones don't have to be expensive.

I have:
200/300 combo AO stone
500/800 combo AO stone
spydie 204MF
spydie 303MF (with 2.0 and 0.5 micron paste on the case)
hanging strop with 0.5 micron paste (veritas green)
1x42" beltsander with 8" disk on the side, and a wide assortment of belts (80-1200 grit)
dremel
dual 6" bench grinder (80 and 320 grit I think)

The belt sander itself cost me more than everything else together. Think I spent about $5 for each of my AO stones, and the 204 doesn't get used unless I have to set a bevel or work on serrated edges. The 2 benchstones and 303MF do 90% of the work.

[vampyrewolf]

After you're at 30°, what are you doing for the rest of the hour?

polishing out the scratches and getting my main bevel to a mirror finish before putting on the microbevel.

[vampyrewolf]

What are the pro's and cons of DMT vs. AO stone?

besides the obvious price?

a DMT stone should last a LONG time, and can be used easily dry. The grit remains at a fixed value over the life of the stone

AO stones are cheap, last about 5years in my hands, and both the surface and grit change over time. The 800 grit stone gets dust on it turning it into a 1200grit if you don't clean it off (if used as a wet stone with oil, you want that slurry of finer grit).
I have managed to wear out a 1200 grit stone and break an 800 grit stone (bottom of backpack + rock)