Community Sharpening Journal

[kennbr34]

How do you guys feel about uneven bevels?

I was looking at a Kershaw knife I did years ago when I was first getting into free-handing. I added a "relief" bevel that I convexed, but it wasn't very even. On one side of the blade, about the mid-point from heel to the tip, the relief bevel's width kind of drops. It's a lot more even on the other side, and so I just kind of left it because I didn't want to bother sacrificing more steel. Yet, every time I look at it, it bugs me.

The thing is, I feel like it really doesn't affect the performance at all. I have heard people talk about uneven bevels affecting the straightness of cuts, but frankly, I think most people don't have a steady enough hand to be able to discern such things. Especially when it comes to a pocket knife that you're doing general cutting tasks with. I mean, I could see where needing that kind of precision and evenness might matter when doing something like craft-cutting where you might more likely use something like an Exacto knife, but when it comes to everyday cutting tasks you're going to do with a pocket knife, I have never been able to actually perceive uneven bevels in the performance, despite the fact that I can see the unevenness.

However, outside of practical considerations, I also think there's something to be said for aesthetics in certain circumstances. Especially when you consider a knife like this, whose characteristics are certainly supposed to lend themselves to be aesthetically pleasing. This is a San Mai construction with VG-1 core, and layered 420J2 and 15N20 laminate. Instead of correcting this botched job, I actually just purchased a second version to keep pristine, so that I also wouldn't feel bad about using this one. Yet, despite that, I still can't help look at this botched-job and think, "I should really fix that." The big issue is that, I feel like if I tried, I would grind into the layered-clad part of the blade, and so I have forced myself to just live with it. Ironically, it is one of the sliciest and performant cutters that I have in my collection, and so I use it a lot more than I probably would have otherwise.

I dunno... Perfection vs pragmatic? You tell me

[Traditional.Sharpening]

How do you guys feel about uneven bevels?

I was looking at a Kershaw knife I did years ago when I was first getting into free-handing. I added a "relief" bevel that I convexed, but it wasn't very even. On one side of the blade, about the mid-point from heel to the tip, the relief bevel's width kind of drops. It's a lot more even on the other side, and so I just kind of left it because I didn't want to bother sacrificing more steel. Yet, every time I look at it, it bugs me.

The thing is, I feel like it really doesn't affect the performance at all. I have heard people talk about uneven bevels affecting the straightness of cuts, but frankly, I think most people don't have a steady enough hand to be able to discern such things. Especially when it comes to a pocket knife that you're doing general cutting tasks with. I mean, I could see where needing that kind of precision and evenness might matter when doing something like craft-cutting where you might more likely use something like an Exacto knife, but when it comes to everyday cutting tasks you're going to do with a pocket knife, I have never been able to actually perceive uneven bevels in the performance, despite the fact that I can see the unevenness.

However, outside of practical considerations, I also think there's something to be said for aesthetics in certain circumstances. Especially when you consider a knife like this, whose characteristics are certainly supposed to lend themselves to be aesthetically pleasing. This is a San Mai construction with VG-1 core, and layered 420J2 and 15N20 laminate. Instead of correcting this botched job, I actually just purchased a second version to keep pristine, so that I also wouldn't feel bad about using this one. Yet, despite that, I still can't help look at this botched-job and think, "I should really fix that." The big issue is that, I feel like if I tried, I would grind into the layered-clad part of the blade, and so I have forced myself to just live with it. Ironically, it is one of the sliciest and performant cutters that I have in my collection, and so I use it a lot more than I probably would have otherwise.

I dunno... Perfection vs pragmatic? You tell me

I've done a few blades that had uneven primary grinds enough to make the edge bevel width uneven no matter what I may have tried. Are you sure it's not the knife itself causing it or were you definitely sloppy in grinding?

[TkoK83Spy]

Funny you mention this. I went through my knives just a few weeks ago after getting called out that "most of my knives still have factory edges" which is definitely not true (only 5 out of 24)...I really enjoy putting my own edges on my knives and see how the steels react to the abrasives. My 4V Manix has a slightly wonky edge up near the tip on the show side. But even so, it still performs just as well as any of my knives that are "perfect".

I used the 4V Manix, as well as my Rex45 Manix a few days each while I was down in the warehouse at work again. I didn't notice any difference at all in use between the two, even though the Rex45 Manix is more even and pretty across the entire edge.

I've actually sharpened a friend of mines Kershaw Leek a couple years ago and it had a worse looking edge than what you're showing here (I'm NOT throwing any shade at you! I've seen your work, this must have been a one off) His blade did have a few spots on it that were a bit sharp, just not even throughout the entire edge. I fixed it up to the best of my ability. It still didn't look the greatest...but man, that thin blade sliced incredibly well!

Unless someone is looking for Instagram glamour, I think as long as it performs the task well and is safe, then that's all you REALLY need.

[kennbr34]

I've done a few blades that had uneven primary grinds enough to make the edge bevel width uneven no matter what I may have tried. Are you sure it's not the knife itself causing it or were you definitely sloppy in grinding?

Good catch!

I never actually considered that it could have been the knife, because this was one of the first free-hand jobs I did... But I just put the blade up against a pair of calipers to check it for squareness, and its got a definite warp.

Very interesting because this happened to me recently with a Kizer blade that I ground down, and that was far from one of the fist I had done, so I couldn't understand how I ended up with that narrow point in the center of the blade. Someone on Reddit pointed out to me that if the blade is warped such that it's concaved, that the center of the bevel will be narrower in the center than at the heel and the tip. Sure enough, the Kizer was also warped in the same way.

This Kershaw was a little tougher to check because of the distal taper, but I can definitely see a warp when I put the ricasso flush against a square edge. I can't believe I never thought to check! But, yeah, I just assumed that it was down to sloppiness for years.

Well, on the one hand... I'm kind of happy it's not my fault. However, on the other hand, I'm kind of bummed that this knife has got such a manufacturing defect. I'm afraid to check the "pristine" copy I bought.

The question I have... How do they make the bevels even from the factory despite the warps? The Kizer had an even bevel grind, and so did the Kershaw (actually produced by Moki). But both blades show a definite concave warp when put up against a straight edge.

Funny you mention this. I went through my knives just a few weeks ago after getting called out that "most of my knives still have factory edges" which is definitely not true (only 5 out of 24)...I really enjoy putting my own edges on my knives and see how the steels react to the abrasives. My 4V Manix has a slightly wonky edge up near the tip on the show side. But even so, it still performs just as well as any of my knives that are "perfect".

I used the 4V Manix, as well as my Rex45 Manix a few days each while I was down in the warehouse at work again. I didn't notice any difference at all in use between the two, even though the Rex45 Manix is more even and pretty across the entire edge.

I've actually sharpened a friend of mines Kershaw Leek a couple years ago and it had a worse looking edge than what you're showing here (I'm NOT throwing any shade at you! I've seen your work, this must have been a one off) His blade did have a few spots on it that were a bit sharp, just not even throughout the entire edge. I fixed it up to the best of my ability. It still didn't look the greatest...but man, that thin blade sliced incredibly well!

Unless someone is looking for Instagram glamour, I think as long as it performs the task well and is safe, then that's all you REALLY need.

Yeah, I mean, this is far from my worse job. Yet, even some of the most uneven, wonkiest looking blades I've done, cut like lasers. Sometimes I have felt like not trying to get perfectly even bevels is kind of just trying to make excuses for bad craftsmanship, but to be perfectly honest, a lot of my "beater" knives don't get any extra special attention, and they cut just as well as the ones that do. From what I have observed, as long as you get the edge apexed, your bevels can be wonkier than a sidewalk next to a grove of trees, and it will still cut through most stuff without you being able to tell the difference between that and a perfectly uniform bevel. However, at a purely logical level, you kind of know there's a performance difference imparted because of the unevenness that's kind of hard to overlook.

[vivi]

if it cuts alright I don't worry about it too much.

If it were my knife though, I'd try to bring the relief bevel down to the apex.

Uneven bevels in general don't bug me if the knife cuts ok, but having two bevels at the edge does for some reason (like in your secone photo). I like one clean looking bevel on either side.

At the end of the day if the tool does its job I wouldn't stress over it. my stretch salt has kind of an ugly edge, but its cutting good, so I'll even it out whenever its time to erase the microbevel and give it a fresh apex.

[Wandering_About]

I don't worry too much about uneven bevels. I do try to keep them pretty close, but unless things get majorly uneven, and I mean really bad, a knife will still cut fine. The thinner you take an edge the more exaggerated any slight differences get, and I go thin so its rare I dont have at least small visible "flaws" to my edges. And as has been pointed out, primary grinds aren't all perfect either. Long as the edge is all sharpened evenly, things are going to be fine. I do all freehand and there is no perfection there, at least not with my hands.

[TkoK83Spy]

I don't worry too much about uneven bevels. I do try to keep them pretty close, but unless things get majorly uneven, and I mean really bad, a knife will still cut fine. The thinner you take an edge the more exaggerated any slight differences get, and I go thin so its rare I dont have at least small visible "flaws" to my edges. And as has been pointed out, primary grinds aren't all perfect either. Long as the edge is all sharpened evenly, things are going to be fine. I do all freehand and there is no perfection there, at least not with my hands.

Oh stop it!! You're edges are some of the best I've ever seen around here, especially always being done free hand. I've seen worse from fixed sharpening systems around here (myself included) It's ok to toot your own horn haha.

[Wandering_About]

Oh stop it!! You're edges are some of the best I've ever seen around here, especially always being done free hand. I've seen worse from fixed sharpening systems around here (myself included) It's ok to toot your own horn haha.

Thanks for the kind words! Unfortunately I still see the flaws in my own edges. Some days I do better than others. They do all get sharp and cut though, and that's plenty good enough for me.

[Traditional.Sharpening]

The question I have... How do they make the bevels even from the factory despite the warps? The Kizer had an even bevel grind, and so did the Kershaw (actually produced by Moki). But both blades show a definite concave warp when put up against a straight edge.

They do this by using very obtuse edge angles and narrow edge thickness. Any change to lower the edge angle or thicken the edge will make it more obvious that there's a blemish there. As I'm often saying there are many benefits to a factory edge angle being very obtuse. It's much quicker to apply and much easier to apply in a way that looks nice enough at the end of it. It also limits returns for gross damage to the edge. There are always benefits and tradeoffs, the tradeoff with that is that the cutting geometry is terrible and it makes for a very user unfriendly knife in many ways beyond simply cutting ability.

[Ramonade]

I threw some money by the window to test something out, I'll report on how well it behaves once I've sharpened a couple of knives on it.

I found a resin bonded diamond stone on aliexpress. Supposedly 1000 grit (lowest they had...) and 20cm long, so good benchstone size. It was only 35€, that's what made me want to try it out. I'm sure that, for this price, the granulometry will be heterogenous but eh, you can't know for sure until you try.

If this is a relatively good stone for the price, I'll be happy.

[RustyIron]

Thanks for the kind words! Unfortunately I still see the flaws in my own edges. Some days I do better than others. They do all get sharp and cut though, and that's plenty good enough for me.

It's a poor craftsman who doesn't see the flaws in his own work. It's what drives us to continue, to improve. If we ever achieved perfection, it would be the end. Learning stops, life becomes boring.

[Wandering_About]

It's a poor craftsman who doesn't see the flaws in his own work. It's what drives us to continue, to improve. If we ever achieved perfection, it would be the end. Learning stops, life becomes boring.

I've definitely found that continuous learning is a key to a more fulfilling life. But I'd love to be able to put on a perfect edge with freehand sharpening!

[TkoK83Spy]

Thanks for the kind words! Unfortunately I still see the flaws in my own edges. Some days I do better than others. They do all get sharp and cut though, and that's plenty good enough for me.

It's a poor craftsman who doesn't see the flaws in his own work. It's what drives us to continue, to improve. If we ever achieved perfection, it would be the end. Learning stops, life becomes boring.

That's deep, but well said Rusty

[Guts]

It's a poor craftsman who doesn't see the flaws in his own work. It's what drives us to continue, to improve. If we ever achieved perfection, it would be the end. Learning stops, life becomes boring.

I've definitely found that continuous learning is a key to a more fulfilling life. But I'd love to be able to put on a perfect edge with freehand sharpening!

As I've gotten better at sharpening in general I've gone back and checked out some of my much older sharpening jobs on other knives before I learned to freehand, and I cringe at how bad my bevels were . Not saying they're perfect now, far from it, but they'll pass a cursory inspection. That said I've gone back and resharpened most of the uneven stuff I've done in the past because it bugs me so much.

[vivi]

ordered some silicon carbide grit to attept re-conditioning my old sharpmaker stones. I've been replacing them on average of every 5 years, so I've got 4 sets at this point.

I ordered 1,000 grit for the fines and 500 grit for the mediums. Also got some 300 grit to try and get a medium set extra coarse.

[horzuff]

I threw some money by the window to test something out, I'll report on how well it behaves once I've sharpened a couple of knives on it.

I found a resin bonded diamond stone on aliexpress. Supposedly 1000 grit (lowest they had...) and 20cm long, so good benchstone size. It was only 35€, that's what made me want to try it out. I'm sure that, for this price, the granulometry will be heterogenous but eh, you can't know for sure until you try.

If this is a relatively good stone for the price, I'll be happy.

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but these stones are not diamond unfortunately. I've seen micrographs of this exact product with some electron analysis or something like that and they turned out to be either Alumina or SiC

ETA:
https://scienceofsharp.com/2021/02/03/a ... -purchase/

Still, SiC is a decent abrasive, harder than most other carbides

[Ramonade]

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news, but these stones are not diamond unfortunately. I've seen micrographs of this exact product with some electron analysis or something like that and they turned out to be either Alumina or SiC

ETA:
https://scienceofsharp.com/2021/02/03/a ... -purchase/

Still, SiC is a decent abrasive, harder than most other carbides

Well, I'm sad I missed that article ! It brings every answer I'd want about that stone . Thanks for the information, I knew it would not be the discovery of the century, but I had some hope that it could be decent.

Well, it'll perform worse than any good SiC stone !

[Wallach]

Figured I'd write some notes after my second day of learning how to sharpen with a guided arm style system (Worksharp Professional Precision Adjust). I am a pretty novice sharpener overall, generally just using either a Worksharp Field Sharpener or having a more skilled sharpener clean up my knives as needed (I did not own more than a few knives up until a couple years ago).

The first knife I tested my WPPA with was my Civivi Conspirator in S35VN. I set the angle for this to 17dps, and started with 220 grit as I wanted to go through the entire set of plates (which I wound up doing for all 3 of these first knives). With this one, I used sweeping strokes from heel to tip, while pushing the arm upwards as I swept. Final result was an extremely sharp knife, however both the heel and the tip were not as sharp as the rest of the blade. The bevels seemed to communicate this, as they are slightly thinner on both sides at the heel and tip, though overall the bevels were somewhat even.





The second knife up was a Hogue Deka I recently received from r/KnifeSwap in MagnaCut. I set this angle to 17dps as well, and quickly learned a valuable lesson after examining the knife after finishing the 220 grit profile - knives with thumb studs need to be minded more when it comes to sharpening angle. With this knife, I used a "saw" motion for the 220 grit to reprofile, then strictly upward "push" motions from 320 up until the stropping. Strangely, the bevels for this knife came out noticeably more uneven than the first; I suspect that with the pushing motion, I need to be more mindful of the amount of pressure and number of strokes I use, as it is easier to take uneven amounts of material off compared to sweeping across the entire edge. The tip especially came out quite uneven, which I suspect has to do with the tip being in a more natural position relative to my right arm on one side, and then much closer to my center when flipped over. The knife did still come out quite sharp, but the tip needs to be corrected at some point, and I suppose I need to consider getting new thumb studs...







The third knife (which I just finished about an hour ago) was my favorite knife of last year and probably my favorite knife ever, the Guardian 3.2 in MagnaCut. I didn't want quite as steep of an edge on this one, so I set the angle to 20dps, and this time I wanted to try the "sawing" style motion across the entire set of stones. With the lessons learned from the Deka, I was able to get a much more even tip and bevels, though I did still wind up with a slightly wider bevel on the belly that narrowed slightly at the tip on one side compared to the other, which again I think is probably a failure to compensate for the tip moving towards my center on that side. This knife came out the sharpest of all three so far, and was able to cleanly slice paper towel, which I don't think I've ever had a knife be able to do prior to this.





Overall, I'm quite enjoying the system, though it does have a bit more learning curve than I expected (though I don't mind). I did get a laugh out of seeing my thumb studs chopped down; makes me a bit thankful that my Spydercos won't have any such problem when I get to sharpening those.

Apologies in advance for the medicore photos. My iPhone was not very cooperative when trying to auto-focus on these edges!

[vivi]

sure is a pain having to remove thumb studs to sharpen. as much as i've been enjoying some cold steel folders I hate that aspect of them.

you could probably get away with a thinner edge on that bradford. I took my scrapyard dogfather down to about 10-12dps with a 20dps microbevel and it just held up great during a 4 hour chopping session earlier today.

viewtopic.php?p=1757227#p1757227

[TkoK83Spy]

I have a Precision Adjust as well. I find the sawing motion much more effective and easier to keep the same pressure throughout the entire edge while sharpening, vs the sweeping motion. You don't need to use any pressure, basically the weight of the stone on the blade is all you need. Let that 220 grit do the work.