Spyderco/Farid K2

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Johnnie1801
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#201

Post by Johnnie1801 »

Thanks for the input Sal, I'm sure once testing gets underway attention will be 100% on the knife and not other issues. Judging by the photo's Farid has already shared, I ,personally, am quite excited to see the results and conclusions that arise from the testing. Maybe you could do a few tests yourself and give us a 5th set of results? :)

I'm glad that there are no restrictions on these guys, although part of me feels sorry for the knives and what they are about to go through, lol. It's not every company that will allow independant individuals to evaluate their products so kudos to Sal and Spyderco for stepping up to the mark.

The idea of a Mini K2 sounds pretty cool also.

Oh and all this talk of hatchet's, any chance my Gransfors Bruks will ever have a Spyderco buddy? :p
I do a stock cardboard run as part of a base set of checks
Thanks Cliff, I'm looking forward to your testing and results. I hope the other testers will chip in with their plans as well :)
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#202

Post by Laethageal »

Cliff Stamp wrote:
Laethageal wrote:... for sure I'm gonna thin it to .006-.008 to see how it fare.
Do you do that manually? If so with what?
I'm mostly using my home made "edge-pro" with cheap chiness stone for low grit and finishing on diamond lapping pad I applied to 3/4 wide glass piece. I really should get myself a good stone and manage something to hold it.


By the way Farid, I find it bad seeing how you respond in this thread. I appreciate your knife but you should leave your hate of Cliff elsewhere.
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#203

Post by Cliff Stamp »

Laethageal wrote: I'm mostly using my home made "edge-pro" with cheap chiness stone for low grit and finishing on diamond lapping pad I applied to 3/4 wide glass piece.
When you note you are thinning the edge do you mean by applying a transition/relief bevel or are you planing down the primary grind? 10V is really resistant to grinding especially when ran fairly hard. If you want to get an idea, take that Elmax blade I sent, work with it for awhile until it has a strong secondary edge bevel, then grind that bevel off by planing down the flat. Now comparing 10V to that is like comparing that to 420J2. I am not saying you can't do it. I do it all the time with steels even harder to grind than 10V, but prepare for some work.
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#204

Post by WorkingEdge »

Cliff - regarding your 10v delica comment, why clad? I thought you mentioned in past clads tend to be weaker than solid pieces (unless the "core 10v" is so much more brittle than the clad steel?)

Would love to see a Cliff / Spyderco collaboration , but would worry about ensuing drama : )
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#205

Post by Cliff Stamp »

WorkingEdge wrote:Cliff - regarding your 10v delica comment, why clad?
A clad should allow you to get the properties in the edge to make the cutting tool and then put the properties elsewhere to get the toughness up, grindability and maintenance up, and even possibly add corrosion resistance (not easy).

A big issue with really high carbide steels is getting them sharpened in a reasonable amount of time without having to resort to fairly specialized equipment. If the steel is cladded this is made much easier as you can modify the primary grind much faster.

Now of course you could ask, "Ah, how many people besides you actually do that?" . I don't know, but there is no harm in suggesting it though I would not oppose the argument that not a lot of people would utilize it by thinning the primary.

However I do think you would see the toughness/tip effect though, just try prying with a ZDP-189 tip or using a ZDP-189 blade with very pointy serrations and look at the point durability vs H1 serrations.

(try it with a friends knife, just tell them it is in the name of science if they get upset, that is what I do)



I thought you mentioned in past clads tend to be weaker than solid pieces (unless the "core 10v" is so much more brittle than the clad steel?)
Yes the clad would be weaker but it doesn't need to be overly so, it only really is if you do Japanese style clads but you don't need to do that extreme. For example do a 3V-class steel/10V clad, or even some kind of stainless. The trick is finding a steel which will respond to the same HT cycle and won't pull itself apart by having different expansion properties.
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Ankerson
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#206

Post by Ankerson »

sal wrote: So, with Farid's permission, I'm sending a K2 to Mastiff, Jim and Cliff to invite their thoughts. I've carried and used one quite a bit. We think it's a very fine tool and unlike anything we make, but if we can make it better, why not. Rebecca will send them out next week.

sal

Hi Sal,

OH, this is going to be a fun one to test, looking forward to this one. :cool:

Will run it through my normal testing battery on rope, cardboard and wood. :)

Need to get more cardboard this week I suppose, I have plenty of rope. :D

Jim
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#207

Post by Ankerson »

sal wrote:Actually the samples going out are 4, not 3. I've added Phil Wilson to the list. (Now that he's chosen to join the discussion) In my mind, and I'm sure also in the minds of the recipients, they are not "free knives". The discussion is about a very uinque model that is a departure for us and we'd like to get discussion on the model. That includes design, materials, function or anything else that proves to be interesting about the model. Also a bonus that the designer is involved. Something we all like to see. I've been badgering Cliff to design a "Spyderco" model for a while (Then we can question him). :p

I have been working with Joe (Mastiff), Phil, Cliff and Jim for a long time and I trust they will be honest and knowledgable in their testing. It is also how we refine and improve our pieces.

It is unfortunate that we have a personality rift involved in the discussion, it is my hope and goal to get it sorted so that we all may enjoy the discussion of the Farid / Spyderco creation. I don't think that anyone is trying to hurt anyone here. I believe that we as a group are above that. Perhaps we are being too sensitive and it's time to bury the hatchet.


sal
Hi Sal,

I hope that the discussion focuses on the knives once we get them and start posting our results. :)

Should be interesting to see what Cliff, Joe and Phil have in mind and what they are going to do.

I hope we can get a lot of good information out of it. :)

Jim
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#208

Post by Ankerson »

Johnnie1801 wrote:Thanks for the input Sal, I'm sure once testing gets underway attention will be 100% on the knife and not other issues. Judging by the photo's Farid has already shared, I ,personally, am quite excited to see the results and conclusions that arise from the testing. Maybe you could do a few tests yourself and give us a 5th set of results? :)

I'm glad that there are no restrictions on these guys, although part of me feels sorry for the knives and what they are about to go through, lol. It's not every company that will allow independant individuals to evaluate their products so kudos to Sal and Spyderco for stepping up to the mark.

The idea of a Mini K2 sounds pretty cool also.

Oh and all this talk of hatchet's, any chance my Gransfors Bruks will ever have a Spyderco buddy? :p
I do a stock cardboard run as part of a base set of checks
Thanks Cliff, I'm looking forward to your testing and results. I hope the other testers will chip in with their plans as well :)

I don't plan on beating on it as it's a folder and I don't beat on folders anymore and not for a long time.

I am not going to baby it either though...
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Ankerson
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#209

Post by Ankerson »

Philo Beddoe wrote:
Ankerson wrote:
paladin wrote:
Ankerson wrote: I have another fixed blade coming soon in CPM 10V that will be in the 64-65 range with very thin geometry in the .005" range behind the edge that I will be testing....

Jim
No cardboard box is safe when Jim is in test mode... AND he has 10V...ahh the humanity!!! :eek:
Yeah. LOL

Well we will see how it goes once it gets here, will see how it fares compared to my K294 blade at 64.....
Is K294 Bohlers version of 10V?
Yes it is. :)

Here are the current A11 Knives I own:

I have another A11 Fixed Blade coming in CPM 10V, larger than the bottom one, 5" blade or so and .005" behind the edge.

K294 top and Z-A11 bottom.

Image
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paladin
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#210

Post by paladin »

Johnnie1801 wrote:Without knowing what Mastiff and Jim have planned, how about you all do a similar cardboard test? Cardboard can be had for free from most supermarkets. It might not be the most scientific of tests but it will give us an idea about the edge retention and performance of the 10v.

The fact is, it's not everyday we have 3 different people with different idea's testing the same knife and it will be interesting to see at the end if they come to the same conclusions.
You know Jim is gonna shred mile upon mile of cardboard to examine sharpness and retention, that is a given...

I only imagine that Joe will first blunt the edge with a bastard file and then let his dog use the K2 as a chew toy to test toughness and rust resistance ( I have heard Mastiff slobber is very corrosive, but I don't have the data on that )...
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#211

Post by paladin »

sal wrote: I've been badgering Cliff to design a "Spyderco" model for a while (Then we can question him). :p

sal
Wow, this should be in the bombshell thread...

I hope I live to see the day this comes into being...

I can wait and I've got the patience of Job, but unfortunately I lack the lifespan of Methuselah.
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#212

Post by Stuart Ackerman »

A folder by Cliff ?

...call it Quintessence...
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#213

Post by Bugout Bill »

A Cliff folder would be boring, it would wind up being a zero ground delica. I'd rather see a chopper.
" Two guns, flashlight, two 12-gauge cartridges, and a knife because—just because—every little boy should have a knife.." -- Louis Awerbuck on his EDC
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#214

Post by GoldenSpydie »

I'm glad to see that this thread has settled down a little. I don't know what it is about Ti frame locks that brings out the worst in people. :rolleyes:
sal wrote:The discussion is about a very uinque model that is a departure for us and we'd like to get discussion on the model. That includes design, materials, function or anything else that proves to be interesting about the model. Also a bonus that the designer is involved.
Sal: I hope to be able to provide a different aspect of testing.

I will hopefully get a K2 when it comes out. I would like to test (and report about) one of these in a bushcraft/woods environment. I understand that this is not what it was designed for, but I am now very curious about this steel, so I would like to see if it is really as "chippy" as everyone says. This is my typical knife testing environment, and I think that it would provide interesting data in addition to that from extended and heavily scientific rope and cardboard cutting.

(BTW, no, I'm not asking for a free one. ;) )
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#215

Post by Studey »

GoldenSpydie wrote:I'm glad to see that this thread has settled down a little. I don't know what it is about Ti frame locks that brings out the worst in people. :rolleyes:
I love them! :D

Excited to check out this knife.
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#216

Post by Ankerson »

GoldenSpydie wrote:I would like to test (and report about) one of these in a bushcraft/woods environment. I understand that this is not what it was designed for, but I am now very curious about this steel, so I would like to see if it is really as "chippy" as everyone says. This is my typical knife testing environment, and I think that it would provide interesting data in addition to that from extended and heavily scientific rope and cardboard cutting.

(BTW, no, I'm not asking for a free one. ;) )

Who is saying it's chippy?

I haven't found it to be chippy from my testing and yeah on wood also....
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#217

Post by The Mastiff »

I only imagine that Joe will first blunt the edge with a bastard file and then let his dog use the K2 as a chew toy to test toughness and rust resistance ( I have heard Mastiff slobber is very corrosive, but I don't have the data on that )...
Maybe not. As Sal has already noted these aren't free knives so I try to be careful with others property. Only honest knife use from me. That's what I do with my own knives too so it won't mean anything unusual. I have pry bars, saws, axes and whatever else I need so it won't be difficult keeping from using it like a knife.

Finn has ate the grip off a knife I had when he was a pup and mad at me for leaving him alone but he's pretty much a geriatric old guy now and not prone to do foolish stuff. Besides his Mastiff dignity he's half blind, mostly deaf and in his last days/weeks/months. If he makes December, it will be 13 years. My last mastiff his size didn't make 6 years. Very rare for a 35 inch/over 200 lb dog! His vet is amazed ( and sending her kids through college) with Finny.

Sal, thanks for the opportunity. More $300 injections for finny and this is the only way I'll get to play with this knife and it's going to be a knife that there will be people looking high and low for in a few years, throwing money around for them. It's another step up in the world we swim in here and not something I would have ever anticipated even 3 or 4 years ago.

Once again congratulations to Spyderco and Farid. In a large way we are the legacy we leave behind and it seems like I've seen a lot of that over the years here. :)

Joe
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#218

Post by Cliff Stamp »

Bugout Bill wrote:A Cliff folder would be boring, it would wind up being a zero ground delica. I'd rather see a chopper.
Who says those two aspects are incompatible.
Stuart Ackerman wrote:
...call it Quintessence...
That is a seriously cool name, I am going to pretend I thought of that.
GoldenSpydie wrote:
I will hopefully get a K2 when it comes out. I would like to test (and report about) one of these in a bushcraft/woods environment.
There is nothing inherently unscientific about that. I would be curious of your impression of that steel for wood work vs traditional steels for such tools like 1095, A2 and on the far upper end White/Blue and M2/M4. These are all very well respected chisel/plane steels.
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#219

Post by GoldenSpydie »

Ankerson wrote:
GoldenSpydie wrote:I would like to test (and report about) one of these in a bushcraft/woods environment. I understand that this is not what it was designed for, but I am now very curious about this steel, so I would like to see if it is really as "chippy" as everyone says. This is my typical knife testing environment, and I think that it would provide interesting data in addition to that from extended and heavily scientific rope and cardboard cutting.

(BTW, no, I'm not asking for a free one. ;) )

Who is saying it's chippy?

I haven't found it to be chippy from my testing and yeah on wood also....
Cliff said that, and that's where pages of "discussion" came from. I would like to judge it for myself, because it seems that a lot of people say that it isn't.
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Re: Spyderco/Farid K2

#220

Post by Cliff Stamp »

GoldenSpydie wrote: Cliff said that, and that's where pages of "discussion" came from.
If I said it was "chippy" it would be response to a fairly specific question as otherwise that is a pretty vague term. I did note it was brittle and it has extremely low apex stability. These are terms with specific meanings. A brittle steel will absorb very little energy in impact and tend to show clear fracture with almost no deformation.

The only steels more brittle than 10V in cutlery are a handful of steels which are so high carbide they are transition materials to pure carbide/ceramic; 121REX, 15 V etc. . Saying 10V isn't brittle is like saying 420J2 has high abrasion resistance, it makes little sense because either the terms are not being used as how they mean or there are some odd reference points being used.

Would there be any exception to saying 52100 has poor corrosion resistance and rusts very easy? That is the same thing as saying 10V is brittle.

As always, if the property is actually a negative or positive depends on the knife and the requirements of the user. If someone is using a knife in a manner where corrosion resistance isn't a concern then the low corrosion resistance of 52100 isn't going to be a drawback, but this doesn't mean you would argue it has high corrosion resistance.
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