VG-10 criticism: why?

[The Mastiff]

I used to have Endura and Delica in VG10 (Gen4 both), currently only Cricket SE and Manbug Leaf in SE in my "collection". I used to have issues keeping my Delica and Endura sharp, both were purchased approximately around 17 years ago. I originally thought it was me and lack of my sharpening skills. My very good friend and knife collector, metallurgist (with university degree in it) who happens to be considered (at least by me) one of the most knowledgeable sharpeners in my vicinity took both of them and sharpened them on Wicked Edge with the same disturbing results. Long story short, he asked friend in Czech Technical University from faculty of mechanical engineering to test multiple blades, including my Delica and Endura and his VG10 pieces resulting in average 54-56 HRC. So I started to focus more on S30V and loved the heat treat more.

Those had to be fakes. That or the test was off for some reason. If you had knives that tested so low why didn't you send them back for warranty? I'm not buying this at all. I've had VG 10 Spydercos since they were released and am still using them including the Endura in my pocket as I type this . I'm as big a steel knut as anybody around here and if a steel has been commercially available in a knife I've probably owned and used it and I still regularly like and use VG 10. I typically finish mine at around 600 to 800 grit as I like it with a little bite to it. It's one of the easiest steels to sharpen well IMO and the heat treat makes the sharpening response remarkably consistent from knife to knife over years and decades in my experience.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I love VG10 for serrated edges and still like it for PE.. especially for how quick and easy it can be touched up on a Sharpmaker (very nice for a guy like me who is really not a pro-sharpener).

And: As far as I recall after all VG10 is one of the (not too many?) steels that was actually designed from scratch for high end cutting (tools)?

For a while it somehow seemed to me that Spydercos newer VG10 had better edge retention than older ones... but I seem to recall that Sal did not confirm this..?

IIRC, VG-10 was originally for knives used for horticultural purposes.

Jim

True.
One of my hobbies or interests was to find Asian knife and tool company catalogs, even if I cannot read the language I enjoyed the photos.

I saw that VG1 and VG10 and some other alloys of that stainless was used for quality horticultural tools as well as hair cutting scissors.

To my amazement one pair used by Japanese hair stylists and barbers was being sold for 300 to 400 US Dollars excluding sales tax and shipping!

One of my dreams would be for a group of us from the forum to catch sushi grade fish and test some of the good Spyderco steel on cleaning the catch.

[Skywalker]

So my question to those who dislike VG-10, have you used it? What don't you like? Is it hypothetical or practical? Are you bored of the steel? Do you like others better? Or does it just come down to plain old preference? I implore you to try it out if you haven't, you might change your mind. I respect any and all opinions.

I don't dislike VG-10 but with regular production K390 and SPY27 in most Seki FRN models, plus all the sprint runs and LEs of the last ~10 years, I'd rather pay a little more for a more wear-resistant steel.

VG-10 Endela: $103.50
SPY27 Endela: $124.50
K390 Endela: $155.25

K390 is still a significant bump but SPY27 is a no-brainer for me. I still occasionally pick up VG-10 models, most recently a Stetch 2 XL, but the performance difference with 20CV or SPY27 or K390 Seki models is noticable and with the current % upcharge I usually go for a more wear resistant steel.


A lot of the comments have also discussed S30V as well, so I'll just say I have no issues with S30V and won't necessarily go out of my way to find or wait for another option like I do for VG-10. Now that SPY27 is basically equivalent price for a lot of Golden and Taichung models I've been choosing that when available...because I like blue more than black. But I think performance-wise S30V is still quite competitive in the age of Magnacut.

My real issue with steel in Golden models is that other than the Native 5, most of the LWs are in BD1N, and there I will wait for a SPY27 or other upgrade option.

[Coastal]

Things I like about VG-10: I know exactly what I'm getting. It's usually good enough. It's quick to sharpen. It's a great way to affordably try new designs.

I would seldom purposely pick VG-10 over another steel for any reason other than affordability. I'm with Skywalker in that if it comes down to a small price difference between VG-10 and SPY27, I'll take SPY27 every time.

[Naperville]

Every magazine article. Every knife video. Every retailer. Every knife manufacturer. And especially the leading manufacturer in cutting edge knife steels, Spyderco, has been leading buyer's toward better and newer steels.

That is why VG-10 does not resonate with buyer's.

This is not a knock on new or older steels. Just an observation.

Spyderco has to keep doing what it does best, looking for untried new steels, and differentiating and testing new locks, new grip materials. Releasing models in tried and true steels with an edge over competition works too.

@sal knows what to do.

[Deadboxhero]

@sal

Could you take us back to when VG-10 was coming out and how it compared in your opinion to ATS-34/154-CM?

[PaloArt]

Double post, sorry about that…

[PaloArt]

Hi @The Mastiff , those were not fake nor the test was off - all those knives from either Lamnia or official dealer in Czech Republic. I've spent some money Spyderco and absolutely plan to spend more - love the company but the reality is that VG10 used to be softer sometimes than these days. My knives tested were Enudura and Delica, two specimen from one year, my friend had issue with his Police 3 in VG10 and I think D-fly, on the contrary my ZDP 189 Endura measured whopping 65 HRC... I had few more Delica's and currently own around 17 knives from Spyderco.

I recall more people from our local forums had issues with "soft" VG10 Spydercos and there was this funny conspiracy thread about "outlet" Spydercos being sold to EU market - of course bogus, perhaps just inconsistent heat treat - nothing unheard of in the knife world (think of Lionsteel and their incosistent heat treat). Do you Remember Simona from back in the day? Old forums? She mentioned in her thread similar concerns with VG10 SS Delica - there was definitely more of us.

Respectfully, as I do have massive respect for you since you were always very nice to me when I started on this forums in 2007, let's not jump please to "if this is not happening to me then what you claim is not true". I just shared my experience and saying my recent VG10 purchase is without problems and I want to discover VG10 more . It is like saying hard no to existence of lock rock which unfortunately exists but I learned to live with it on all my Seki knives.

Take care and stay safe Mastiff,

Pavel

[Bolster]

I have a lot of VG-10 in my collection. I avoid buying more. As a mid-grade steel it serves me well, but it needs sharpening more frequently than the up-market PM steels.

[BeggarSo]

I don't like VG10 on pocket knives at all.

I do like it on my Kitchen knives.

There're too many good models that would be better with a different steel, I have always felt that way, the steel scratches very easily and I don't care for it's odd sheen.

I also dont care for the way it sharpens nor for how short of a time it holds a truly sharp edge.

All of this is very subjective from the many models I have owned and still do. Is ita bad steel? Nope just not the type I like or will spend money on again.

Everyone has their likes and dislikes and in the end only your preferences matter to you. Thankfully Spyderco has a wide variety.

[Steeltoez83]

I like vg 10 and will continue to buy more on models i want to try out. Ive carried my LJ serrated vg10 all year.

[James Y]

If I had the choice of the same model knife in VG-10 or SPY27, I would choose the SPY27. Not because I know it's better (I don't, because I've never owned any), but to try out the newer steel. I have a ton of VG-10 already. I still like it a lot, though, especially in SE.

Then again, I'm not as big of a steel junkie as it seems most knife afis on forums are. I like some new steels, and if I ever decide to buy knives again, I want some Magnacut. But I still like my Victorinox knives and the steek they use, and I use them a lot, so ...

There are some higher-end steels, like S110V, that I ended up not liking very much.

Jim

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Mastiff, PaloArt, David, Wartstein and sal, and all:
One thing I would love to see Spyderco do is expand tgeir Ethnic Division and work with Czech, Austrian, Spanish, etc Knife people to create entire catalogues of Enduras and other models, with VG10 steel, but with their regional spin on each model.

[M_J87]

I'm just as happy with something like VG-10 as I am with 15V or REX45, etc.

I think this is ultimately the point I'm making. I can't say I would be able to tell the difference between VG-10 and any other super steel in a couple weeks of my regular use.

[Coastal]

There're too many good models that would be better with a different steel

Yes, especially old, discontinued ones that would be dynamite with a higher-performing steel. The Calypso, Large Lum Folder and Schempp Persian immediately come to mind.

[BeggarSo]

I would rather see more of the CR type steels like the upcomping 9Cr18MoV steel Retract.

The whole do it in ethnic series with VG10 has been done, some darn nice knives too let VG10 rest already is my take on it.

[Bolster]

[*]S110V: I don't think anyone outside of Spyderco used this steel in a production capacity. Another Magnacut casualty likely.

Interesting post, thanks. Was surprised to see S110V (high hardness) compared to Magnacut (high toughness).

[DansGearAddiction]

[*]S110V: I don't think anyone outside of Spyderco used this steel in a production capacity. Another Magnacut casualty likely.

Interesting post, thanks. Was surprised to see S110V (high hardness) compared to Magnacut (high toughness).

Just to be clear, I wasn't really comparing S110V to Magnacut in terms of chemistry or performance, but rather as more of a "Magnacut sucked the oxygen out of the room" as it related to steels that had yet to really propagate further (S45VN was similar IMO).

[sal]

@sal

Could you take us back to when VG-10 was coming out and how it compared in your opinion to ATS-34/154-CM?

Hi Shawn,

That's a bit of a "Talkin' story". Too busy right now. will get to it in a day or two.

sal

[Deadboxhero]

@sal

Could you take us back to when VG-10 was coming out and how it compared in your opinion to ATS-34/154-CM?

Hi Shawn,

That's a bit of a "Talkin' story". Too busy right now. will get to it in a day or two.

sal

I would greatly appreciated it, it was before my time.