MBC Slipjoint

[grimlock]

Another victorinox option would be the bakers knife. It is used for scoring the bread dough before baking. It is serrated, super thin and lightweight. Here is one compared to a delica. I am lucky, locking blade knives are legal where I live.

[yablanowitz]

Friction folders with tang extension stop are one hand opening, so probably illegal in the places where OHO is forbidden. Something I learned (the hard way) long ago is when you thrust with a knife such as a wharncliffe, the edge will cut while the spine will not. This produces closing force on the blade which can overcome the spring tension holding a slip joint open, causing it to close on your fingers.

[grimlock]

ouch!

[vivi]

Friction folders with tang extension stop are one hand opening, so probably illegal in the places where OHO is forbidden. Something I learned (the hard way) long ago is when you thrust with a knife such as a wharncliffe, the edge will cut while the spine will not. This produces closing force on the blade which can overcome the spring tension holding a slip joint open, causing it to close on your fingers.

Yep.

I've been thinking about this thread. I was wondering, maybe if you created an upswept blade with the tip above the handle, it could be used for some stabbing without folding despite being a slipjoint.

But then again, it'd probably work in controlled situations like piercing a cardboard box, but a hectic self defense scenario is a different story.

I'm just glad I live somewhere that I can openly carry a .45 and a fixie. self defense with a slipjoint.....geeze. dark times.

[Kissaki]

OP here. Thanks to Mike and everyone who have shared their thoughts. I really didn't expect as much interest in this topic and greatly appreciate the new knowledge gained.

For me, an ideal MBC slipjoint would have these characteristics:

- Grippy, ergonomic handle in blue or some other non-tactical color. Subdued color clip and handle screws - not shiny. Clip placement and type facilitates an efficient out of pocket draw. Handle is designed to easily index for deployment when carried unclipped in a pocket. Handle design allows the closed knife to be used for punyo strikes.
- 2.5 to 3" Wharncliffe blade (not black), with the spine ground in a manner that prevents the sheaaring effect Yablanowitz described above.
- Strong detent (93mm Alox Victorinox-ish - I personally feel the super heavy, detent system on the Nidhug/Lansky is overkill).
- Enough exposed blade for easy, two-hand, pinch opening.
- Lightweight and affordable.
- Available trainer (perhaps a dulled training blade you could swap in and out).

Basically, a practical, innocuous, neutral-looking EDC knife, that's legal to carry in most places. But, one that could easily be pressed into an MBC role if necessary. To me, this is a tactics and skill oriented defensive knife for an experienced practitioner. The lack of a lock and required two-handed opening requires a different mindset and set of tactics. That's intriguing to think through...

K

[Stuart Ackerman]

Mike Janich. Is that Fiskars Hawkbill the K62 ?

[Stas]

Mike Janich. Is that Fiskars Hawkbill the K62 ?

If that’s the one, I’m buying two — just out of curiosity.

Been thinking about the easiest way to keep it Spyderco :
1) Delica Wharncliffe with a two-euro-cent coin welded inside the Spydie hole (how symbolic) — for Germany, where locks are allowed but OHO knives aren’t.
2) Tasman Salt converted to a slipjoint — for countries that allow OHO but non-locking knives. If a hawkbill is safer as a slipjoint. You could increase the spring tension too. Example: https://tacticalreviews.co.uk/?page_id=301
3) A combo: Tasman Salt with the Spydie hole removed and turned into a slipjoint — for the rest of “safe old Europe”.

[Michael Janich]

Hey, All:

Thank you again for the lively discussion.

Stuart, yes, it is the K62. Its spring is stout enough to make it a non-one-hand opener. Since it doesn't have a clip, I typically carried it by itself in my right back pocket.

Grimlock, I also carried the Victorinox baker's knife, which I received as a a gift from Fred Perrin. It's a bit small, but wickedly sharp.

I've played with the idea of two finger choils or a finger choil and a subhilt on a friction or side-detent non-locker. Although you lose edge length, it provides more stability against accidental closure than a single finger choil.

For countries where lock-blade, two-hand openers are/were allowed, I've often wished for a standard Delica 4 with an undersized Trademark Round Hole--like the Spy-DK. That maintains its Spyderco identity, but doesn't provide a purchase for one-handed opening. It could even have a narrower blade. Since that didn't exist, one of the knives I used to carry in Germany was an old-school Spyderco Jot Singh Khalsa that I ground down to a straight spine, totally removing the hole. Unfortunately, recent changes to German knife law are now even more restrictive.

Stay safe,

Mike

[Jim Malone]

In the case of Germany another option is a single edged small fixed blade smaller then 12cm.

But....as in most European countries you still need a legitimate purpose: A "legitimate purpose" is required for carrying in public. This can include professional use (e.g., a chef carrying a kitchen knife to work) or specific hobbies, but self-defense is not considered valid.

A knife with a lock in Belgium is not persé illegal. There are unlawfull knives like butterfly knives etc but a basic Spyderco knife is not illegal in Belgium but the legitimate purpose makes carrying any knife completely legal as in " i know my rights, mr police officer" not possible.
Most European cops will confiscate the knife (without a report to the district attorney if you are lucky) and a judge will decide in a trial.
Now in Belgium this hassle is solved by the police giving you a sort of a "administrative fine" so the courts don't get involved of 250€ and confiscation of the knife.
If you are smart you will cut your loss. Lets just say in Europe police forces and the law are not really focused on upholding your citizen rights.

Just being polite and not look like what they call eufimistically "youth" can get you a long way in Europe.

[JoviAl]

Mike Janich. Is that Fiskars Hawkbill the K62 ?

If that’s the one, I’m buying two — just out of curiosity.

Been thinking about the easiest way to keep it Spyderco :
1) Delica Wharncliffe with a two-euro-cent coin welded inside the Spydie hole (how symbolic) — for Germany, where locks are allowed but OHO knives aren’t.
2) Tasman Salt converted to a slipjoint — for countries that allow OHO but non-locking knives. If a hawkbill is safer as a slipjoint. You could increase the spring tension too. Example: https://tacticalreviews.co.uk/?page_id=301
3) A combo: Tasman Salt with the Spydie hole removed and turned into a slipjoint — for the rest of “safe old Europe”.

Hey Stas, have you considered just filling the Spydie hole with a blob of metal JB Weld? I use it all the time when porting 2 stroke engines and it’s mega easy to get a nice finish on while being extremely strong (especially if you rough up the interior of the hole before filling it in).

[Kissaki]

Delica with a Roadie XL style blade for the win.

Somewhat related, I feel the Squeak is one of Sal's most overlooked and underrated designs. The CoPilot DNA just shines. For me, the choil and spine jimping work fabulously to prevent accidental blade closure. And I can get a four finger grip on the handle with my size L (albeit slender) hand. Definitely worth considering if you're in need of a pint-sized slipjoint for non-permissive or very legally restrictive environments. If Spyderco ever entertained the idea of an MBC slippie, Maniago production would seem logical.

K

[Michal O]

Anyone mentioned Saca Tripas? Fred Perrin made some friction variants in the past.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Michael and Vivi and others, if you don't mind while we are on this topic, how do Opinel, Antonini Old Bear, French Nontron, and other Ring Lock Hawkbill type folders fare for this use?
An online person said under intense stress the Ring Lock may pop off and fail?

[SpyderEdgeForever]

I messed around with the same idea for a bit but gave up. When I travel in Europe I usually bring a proper flashlight — Nitecore EDC25 or 29. I live in the Czech Republic where you can basically walk around with a katana and nobody cares. Cross a border into Germany and only non-one-hand opening knives might be technically allowed (the lock itself is not a problem), but lots of cities ban any knives on public transport or in main public areas. Laws keep getting stricter, so I just don’t bother. I do bring a Vic RangerGrip when I travel, zipped inside the pouch in the bag to avoid problems, but only for cutting fruit or cheese.

Btw Victorinox larger, full-handled models are mostly liner locks, not slipjoints.

Edit: Revised for clarity

I like the Ranger Grip line and wondered how strong the liner locks are. Spyderco and Victorinox are the only liner lock folders I trust to be reasonably safe. Like the Tenacious.

I also asked a European fellow knife guy about the laws. Exactly what you said. He carries a slip joint pruning knife for self protection and said Czech Republic and Austria, Poland and some others are more pro knife, but Germany, UK, etc are not.


He said the larger pruning knives are razor sharp and their animal claw like look gives a psychological effect to would be attackers.
Nobody in their right mind wants to get ripped open by a tiger's claws.

[Michal O]

In Poland you can carry a sword and nobody cares. If they ever make knife law like in Germany, 95% of my knife collection is stuck in box forever. Anyway in Germany you can't have folder but I think they still allow fixed blade no longer than 12 cm. Of course they have now very strict zones in public places. There was a case of older women who had their small SAK Victorinox confiscated on Christmas fair (German Police searched random purses), meanwhile some men who often were not born in Germany, IYKWIM, are walking free with forbidden items and bad intentions.

[Stas]

Hey Stas, have you considered just filling the Spydie hole with a blob of metal JB Weld? I use it all the time when porting 2 stroke engines and it’s mega easy to get a nice finish on while being extremely strong (especially if you rough up the interior of the hole before filling it in).

That sound like a good idea!

In Poland you can carry a sword and nobody cares. If they ever make knife law like in Germany, 95% of my knife collection is stuck in box forever. Anyway in Germany you can't have folder but I think they still allow fixed blade no longer than 12 cm. Of course they have now very strict zones in public places. There was a case of older women who had their small SAK Victorinox confiscated on Christmas fair (German Police searched random purses), meanwhile some men who often were not born in Germany, IYKWIM, are walking free with forbidden items and bad intentions.

From what I understand, you can carry a folder in Germany, but it must not be openable and lockable with one hand — so NO one-hand opening mechanism and a lock on the same knife. That means either a slipjoint that can be opened one-handed (UKPK) or a locking knife that lacks one-hand opening (like traditional Buck 110 or Magnum Most Wanted). Fixed blades over 12 cm are allowed, but self-defence isn’t a lawful reason to carry a knife — so I wouldn’t bring my Ronin 2 or Swick to Germany and claim it’s “just EDC.”

And as you say, many big cities have Waffenverbotszonen (public places and on public transport), especially after a few recent incidents, so you can not carry any knife there. When I travel to Germany in a big city I instead carry a 6,500-lumen Nitecore and pepper spray — the spray must be labelled for the purpose of defense against animals to be legal to carry.

[Stas]

Nice coincidence — I was on eBay last night and spotted a Spyderco model I’d never paid attention to before: the Terzuola Slipit. What a great design. I watched a few videos and the blade "locks" really secure with the fingers. Now I’m dreaming about a sprint run of the C131CFP!

https://www.arizonacustomknives.com/products/1082475/

[Michael Janich]

Michael and Vivi and others, if you don't mind while we are on this topic, how do Opinel, Antonini Old Bear, French Nontron, and other Ring Lock Hawkbill type folders fare for this use?
An online person said under intense stress the Ring Lock may pop off and fail?

Dear SpyderEdgeForever:

Any of those knives would work fine--if you are talking about a place that allows the carry of lock-blade knives. Although they are designed for two-handed opening, I have successfully been able to inertially open some twist-lock knives, so that would also be both a practical consideration and a potential legal concern. The think I like least about them is that the lock design requires a roundish handle, which doesn't allow easy edge orientation. Many of them must also be carried in a pouch to remain closed.

Stay safe,

Mike

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Michael and Vivi and others, if you don't mind while we are on this topic, how do Opinel, Antonini Old Bear, French Nontron, and other Ring Lock Hawkbill type folders fare for this use?
An online person said under intense stress the Ring Lock may pop off and fail?

Dear SpyderEdgeForever:

Any of those knives would work fine--if you are talking about a place that allows the carry of lock-blade knives. Although they are designed for two-handed opening, I have successfully been able to inertially open some twist-lock knives, so that would also be both a practical consideration and a potential legal concern. The think I like least about them is that the lock design requires a roundish handle, which doesn't allow easy edge orientation. Many of them must also be carried in a pouch to remain closed.

Stay safe,

Mike

Thank you so very much for the thoughtful and helpful answer, sir.

Be well and I appreciate you greatly.