some manix 2 sprint runs

[Blerv]

They have a few old models too. ZDP-189 Jess Horn L/W's for example at $150.

I'm holding out for the Superblue laminated FRN knives. Or trying... :D

[senorsquare]

I want it super bad (orange is my favorite color) but am I wrong to be hesitant to enter my password into a tab that wants access to my friend list? I do not want to spam anyone.

I entered via the email option.

[Pockets]

Jeff at Cutlery Shoppe has been more than generous to the Spyderco fan community over the years. He has had the best, or nearly the best, pricing on most items for quite awhile. The prices on these sprints are not far off market value (i.e. via E-bay) from what I can tell (although they are not cheap, I realize). It pains me to think that folks think that Jeff is gouging. He has taken it in the shorts more times than most people realize to provide great deals and good service.

Jeff could have sold the orange Manix 2 exclusive for much more than he did. The secondary market brought quite a bit more than he originally sold them for, as an example.

I agree. I've only ever had good experiences with Cutlery Shoppe.

[Evil D]

Wow...$400 for a S90V Manix 2...if I had the cash I might pay it, but I would have to buy two so I have a backup.

[xceptnl]

Those Jess Horn LTWTs are calling me, but I can't do it. The blood bank has stopped taking my calls and refuses to see me.

[senorsquare]

Wow...$400 for a S90V Manix 2...if I had the cash I might pay it, but I would have to buy two so I have a backup.

He also has an S90V Para 2 for $450. Not a Manix, but would serve as a nice backup :)

[Popsickle]

guys Jeff is a great guy who has done nothing but help us get spydies at a cheaper cost than the other guys. as for the pricing on those knives... I have seen an s90v manix 2 sell for 550+ on the big auction site plus I think he has every right to do these mark ups. if you don't like it, just don't buy it and leave it alone. about a year ago I would have bought all of them.... the s90v para, s90v manix 2, xhp manix 2. But I've come to realize that s30v is just fine for me, so instead I purchased a matching satin pair manix XL and Manix 2 in s30v :) .

[mikerestivo]

This is an example of what the open market is bearing right now (for another Manix 2 sprint):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221224788381?ss ... 1438.l2649

I think I paid about $117-ish for mine when I bought it.

[xceptnl]

This is an example of what the open market is bearing right now (for another Manix 2 sprint):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221224788381?ss ... 1438.l2649

I think I paid about $117-ish for mine when I bought it.

That is a steal. I believe I paid more than that for mine second hand (used condition).

[MachSchnell]

I don't understand how you consider this gouging. These are discontinued items and as such they are no longer available, and have not been for years, in some cases. As xceptnl said, these are probably knives from Jeff's personal collection. If he is charging what the market bears, how is it gouging? An item is "worth" what the market says it's worth, right? And the scarcity of these items, along with demand, have driven up the value. In a way, I think you are saying that if I have a mint-condition, showroom new, Model-T Ford, I am gouging by selling it for what it's worth now versus original MSRP.

When I reference E-bay I am not referring to buy-it-now listings, but auctions. Fees aside (which agreed, stink), auctions are the purest form of what an item is worth because we (the buyers) determine the price. A lot of the buy-it-now prices are crazy high.

The Manix 2 sprints and others listed at CS are more than I would be willing to pay, but I as noted, I feel compelled to defend Jeff versus charges of gouging. Based on his history, he has done more for the Spyderco fan base than most of us combined.

It's not even plausible to compare this to any auto market...
And if you'd like to, here's one that's way more relevant:
Honda dealer selling a brand new 2010 Civic ($15,000 in 2010) today for $20,000.
But both the Model-T and the Civic each had millions of units sold, so it's not even a remotely compatible comparison (granted there's no real demand for either.)

This, and my previous posts were not attempts at attacking Jeff, just an opinion. And no doubt has he generally had the best deals around the net (and I've spent plenty at his store, A+ every time.) It's just that you don't expect a reputable dealer to charge over MSRP regardless of what the current supply/demand/market value is. If you want to put it that way, any knife dealer could do this from the get go and get away with it, especially with sprints or anything limited production (which is exactly what those "secondary market" dealers/flippers do. And once they are all pre-ordered, bought, and spoken for, the sellers set the market; and the unlucky seekers pay the premium just to get a piece.)

Again, to be clear, these are priced under the current "free market" value; and I applaud His generous offering of some fine discontinued cutlery. But, I wholeheartedly disagree with sales of anything production at over MSRP, regardless of the demand. And in the same right, how would this be any different if a vendor jacked up the price of something regular production in times of scarcity (think PM2 around holiday season.)

[FCM415]

Again, These are obviously from his own collection as they have long been sold out. I surely wouldn't expect him to sell his personal stash at original prices at this point. I can't imagine going to any online dealer and seeing these priced at $200, no way, no how. Comparing him to flippers like they are one of the same is a bit harsh. He's a knife nut like the rest of us, I suppose he could sell it on a forum exchange somewhere, but that wouldn't make much sense either because he has his own store. It would be generous of him if he sold it at below msrp, but I wouldn't hold him to it. That is how much they are going for now. I don't look at him any less for not pricing his very own S90v PM2 for $200, I don't think anyone else would sell it for below msrp including other dealers if they had it. It's not about it being scarce and him taking advantage of the situation, he sells new PM2's at bargain basement prices to this day while flippers you are making a comparison to, I'm seeing $160 prices from them. What would be different with your PM2 scarcity jacked up prices example is that CS sells the PM2 at $104 shipped, still probably the lowest around, weather they are scarce or not. When the Southard came out and it was hard to come by, he had it for $223, best deal around and guess what? Its still that price to this day.

Could you go to a violin shop and buy a Stradivarious at original price? Extreme comparision, but prices change and again, these are dicontinued, its not like he just received a sought after knife fresh off the factory as a dealer and gouged prices on it. If my local knife shop got their hands on a S90v Para2, I'm quite sure it's price/trade value would be close to $400 also.

Simply put, I do not see anything wrong with what he is doing. That is how much they are now. We often see greed in this hobby, but I couldn't view Jeff in the same light as them like you are. In the end, he is running a business and who wouldn't want to see it below msrp, but it isn't realistic.

[BAL]

And also FCM415, if they were priced at MSRP, they would have already sold and some
people would have been mad that they missed it. Now they are there if you really want
one. Too high for me personally, but hey, probably worth it to someone.

[endgame]

If you like it buy it might be expensive to some but not to others.it just shows you how these sprint runs go up in price.I just got thev manix 2 carpenter steel flat grind with hollowed out lineres from bento I don't no the original price but I no paid more so if you buy these knives moth ballem and let them grow in price.the knife that got me into spyderco is a perfect example.the spyderco"s".started in the $ 50 range and now selling for $170 pluss and they were discontinued only 3 years ago.I no its not a sprint run but when I saw it it was a must have and $170 wasn't a problem maybe to others but not me.

[akaAK]

He can sell them for any price he wants, whether people buy is a different story.

When did people start getting sensitive about what others do with their own personal property? We aren't taking about hoarding water and then price gouging in an emergency. This is about someone selling a luxury item (yeah I know they are tools but there are numerous equivalent options which eliminates the absolute need for this item). If you absoultely need (as opposed to want) this item then $400 isn't too much to spend.

I thought about it but the $400 is too steep. No hard feelings, just the way the market works.

[mikerestivo]

It's not even plausible to compare this to any auto market...
And if you'd like to, here's one that's way more relevant:
Honda dealer selling a brand new 2010 Civic ($15,000 in 2010) today for $20,000.
But both the Model-T and the Civic each had millions of units sold, so it's not even a remotely compatible comparison (granted there's no real demand for either.)

This, and my previous posts were not attempts at attacking Jeff, just an opinion. And no doubt has he generally had the best deals around the net (and I've spent plenty at his store, A+ every time.) It's just that you don't expect a reputable dealer to charge over MSRP regardless of what the current supply/demand/market value is. If you want to put it that way, any knife dealer could do this from the get go and get away with it, especially with sprints or anything limited production (which is exactly what those "secondary market" dealers/flippers do. And once they are all pre-ordered, bought, and spoken for, the sellers set the market; and the unlucky seekers pay the premium just to get a piece.)

Again, to be clear, these are priced under the current "free market" value; and I applaud His generous offering of some fine discontinued cutlery. But, I wholeheartedly disagree with sales of anything production at over MSRP, regardless of the demand. And in the same right, how would this be any different if a vendor jacked up the price of something regular production in times of scarcity (think PM2 around holiday season.)

The Honda Civic is still readily available, and there are still millions of them on the road.

The car comparison is quite valid, as is any other item that is rare, desirable, and no longer made.

As far as the Model T - from Wikipedia:

The standard 4-seat open tourer of 1909 cost $850;[32] in 1913, the price dropped to $550 and $440 in 1915. Sales were 69,762 in 1911; 170,211 in 1912; 202,667 in 1913; 308,162 in 1914; and 501,462 in 1915.[27] In 1914, an assembly line worker could buy a Model T with four months' pay.[27]

And currently (from Yahoo answers):

"depends on the condition, I imagine you would have to take a cherry one to auction, because they are RARE. Poor and mediocre examples sell all the time for 5000 - 30 or 40,000." So you would say it was gouging to sell a pristine Model T for any more than MSRP? Or more than 4 months pay for an average auto worker via today's dollar?

The sellers do not set the market on anything that is not a need, in my opinion. We, the buyers, do. The sellers are not putting a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to shell out $400.00 for an S90V Manix 2. Folks are freely paying that for what is a luxury item. It's not a product like gasoline, where we are sort of stuck with the price that is set. You can look at any pocket knife and freely say "no thanks - too steep for me". You contradict yourself in your post by blaming the pricing problems of the secondary market on the sellers, and then, in turn, say that Jeff's knives are priced under current free-market value.

The fact that you said that your previous posts were not an attempt to attack Jeff is reassuring and appreciated. The post that caused the groundswell of chatter is the one where you said "Ouch, talk about a gouging...". That is certainly not complimentary and can be construed as dismissive, disrespectful and insulting, actually (gouging of course being a frowned-upon practice). So whether you intended to do it or not, you accused Jeff of price gouging. Being mad that Jeff is not offering these items at a price that you like does not mean that he is price gouging.

I think what has mudded the waters here is that Jeff might well be selling these knives from his own personal collection via his store site. If he's selling his personal stash, that's his business to price however he wants. And consider that if dealers wanted to "gouge", there is little to stop any of them from charging MSRP for all Spyderco knives (which again, according to your position, would not be gouging). I am thankful that almost no one ever sells at MSRP for Spyderco knives, and can cut some slack to a guy that is selling some of his own discontinued items at above it on this one occasion.

[FCM415]

There are certainly times when dealers pricing a knife over what is generally accepted or those who artificially set the market value is something of concern. I totally get what your saying. In this case though, I think it is more of what that current market is willing to pay for these that should be the focus. I was actually in the hunt for a Manix2 S90v myself awhile ago. After some looking around, I quickly found that I probably won't be getting one soon. Best I can do is to stay on top of future releases so I get mine the ideal way next time. Great knives what can I say, but these prices are crazy!

[MachSchnell]

The Honda Civic is still readily available, and there are still millions of them on the road.

The car comparison is quite valid, as is any other item that is rare, desirable, and no longer made.

As far as the Model T - from Wikipedia:

The standard 4-seat open tourer of 1909 cost $850;[32] in 1913, the price dropped to $550 and $440 in 1915. Sales were 69,762 in 1911; 170,211 in 1912; 202,667 in 1913; 308,162 in 1914; and 501,462 in 1915.[27] In 1914, an assembly line worker could buy a Model T with four months' pay.[27]

And currently (from Yahoo answers):

"depends on the condition, I imagine you would have to take a cherry one to auction, because they are RARE. Poor and mediocre examples sell all the time for 5000 - 30 or 40,000." So you would say it was gouging to sell a pristine Model T for any more than MSRP? Or more than 4 months pay for an average auto worker via today's dollar?

The sellers do not set the market on anything that is not a need, in my opinion. We, the buyers, do. The sellers are not putting a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to shell out $400.00 for an S90V Manix 2. Folks are freely paying that for what is a luxury item. It's not a product like gasoline, where we are sort of stuck with the price that is set. You can look at any pocket knife and freely say "no thanks - too steep for me". You contradict yourself in your post by blaming the pricing problems of the secondary market on the sellers, and then, in turn, say that Jeff's knives are priced under current free-market value.

The fact that you said that your previous posts were not an attempt to attack Jeff is reassuring and appreciated. The post that caused the groundswell of chatter is the one where you said "Ouch, talk about a gouging...". That is certainly not complimentary and can be construed as dismissive, disrespectful and insulting, actually (gouging of course being a frowned-upon practice). So whether you intended to do it or not, you accused Jeff of price gouging. Being mad that Jeff is not offering these items at a price that you like does not mean that he is price gouging.

I think what has mudded the waters here is that Jeff might well be selling these knives from his own personal collection via his store site. If he's selling his personal stash, that's his business to price however he wants. And consider that if dealers wanted to "gouge", there is little to stop any of them from charging MSRP for all Spyderco knives (which again, according to your position, would not be gouging). I am thankful that almost no one ever sells at MSRP for Spyderco knives, and can cut some slack to a guy that is selling some of his own discontinued items at above it on this one occasion.

Blah, auto market is not relative... and the one you're comparing to is on a mass produced 100 year old vehicle!
Cliche... I hate to do it, but apples to oranges... end of story.
(Don't even get me started on using and stating Yahoo, and Wikipedia as reputable sources... :p )

How do sellers not set the market? After the initial drop of the BBS M390 PM2 (and many other sprints) there were ones selling, and sold on the "Secondary Market" BIN at $300-400? Oh and meanwhile BBS still had them in stock, and clearly listed on the secondary market listings was the fact they only ship U.S. domestic (so the argument of international sales doesn't apply.) The initial buyers that pay those astronomical prices are likely manic and in a panic about missing out and impulsively click buy it now regardless of the price. This sets the bar high and inevitably sets a poor reference point for future sales, but those prices stick and likely rise.

There's really no contradiction as you say... just simple facts, spliced with opinion. That's unless you're confining all major distributors to the category of "secondary market," but they're our primary distributors second to the SFO.

Moreover, he probably priced accordingly to prevent someone from simply buying for a quick flip and nearly doubling their money. Which is understandable.

There's no anger towards Jeff, and actually I take offense to that accusation. But apparently free speech, and stating your opinion is frowned upon.

[endgame]

It seems he only has 1 left and no pics I was going to buy it but I need to see the pics first I sent them email.now I don't think he has any left at least I got the one with the carpenters steel flat ground I love it bento is a little pricy but great service I ordered a Damascus Persian today.

[black]

It seems he only has 1 left and no pics I was going to buy it but I need to see the pics first

Those pics at cs are always generic so it really doesn't matter if there is one or not.

[endgame]

I guess youre right