My thoughts on the "hard use" trend.

[tr4022]

Leave the other folks to their choices without the snarkiness.

Gentlemen, gentlemen, please! I beg you to reconsider! Without the snark, what are we left with? Oh, the humanity!

Tod

[Blerv]

Paul has a good point.

It becomes frustrating when pop culture starts to put pressure on a company to change up the entire model line. Spyderco is pretty resilient to this it seems. However, if a knife doesn't have jimping, drilled liners, and a flat grind people start wondering if they are dropping the ball.

"I like the Manix2 but wish it had drilled liners and a flat grind. Maybe a good steel too."
"The Delica is nice but I wish it had a strong lock. Can Spyderco slap a compression lock on it?"
:rolleyes:

[tvenuto]

"I like the Manix2 but wish it had drilled liners and a flat grind. Maybe a good steel too."
"The Delica is nice but I wish it had a strong lock. Can Spyderco slap a compression lock on it?"
:rolleyes:

Now the drilled liner requests are understandable. If you can lighten a knife without compromising strength/rigidity then it's a win-win that I'll pay a little extra for. Spyderco has let us get a bit spoiled with steel selection.

However, when it comes to changing my beloved Delica...them's fightin' words. I agree that Spyderco has struck an impressive balance between listening to their customers, and losing control of their product line. Not the easiest line to walk.

Back to the thread: I'm a big fan of knowing the intended use and limitations of any tool. That said, I'm also a fan of knowing just how far you can push something if you absolutely needed to. If I can gain this knowledge by watching someone else break their stuff? Even better. So in the end I can understand people discussing their opinions on "the toughest folder." It's just a discussion, and most everyone involved understands that a folder will never be a fixed blade.

[C.L.L 97]

I would never consider "batonning" any of my Spydies. However; it's something I need to do every once in a while. Some situations just don't lend themselves to a large fixed blade, they need a good whack on the spine with a hammer. That's what $2 gas station knives are for. When it breaks, I get another. But not my Spydies.

+1 I would never baton with one of my :spyder: , if I ever needed to I would get my P.O.Crap Winchester fixed blade and baton with that. Now if I had a mule,bushcraft,temperance, or any of the Hossom Forrester line of fixed blade knives then I would definitely baton with those and do some major "hard use" tests with those, but just not with my folders.

[Blerv]

Now the drilled liner requests are understandable. If you can lighten a knife without compromising strength/rigidity then it's a win-win that I'll pay a little extra for.

It's really all personal opinion as you said.

I don't know how much of an impact it makes on MSRP whether 3% or 30%. Since I don't food prep with folders the extra crevices where dirt and gunk can sneak into aren't a bother. The weight savings of a fraction of an ounce isn't much of a boon though.

I'm at least 20 pounds in the wrong direction no matter how you define "stocky". That's 320 ounces and who knows how many drilled liners. :D

[Popsickle]

the hard use "trend" is all about peoples needs. For my normal cutting duties i always have a nice spyderco with me (para 2 m390).... anything more than normal use my Striders get that action(usually have an SMF with me). I just ask "why can't they do more?" I guarantee you a beefier folder with a thicker stock, larger pivot, strong lock, and a high strength steel can take the abuse you throw at it and shrug it off. This doesn't make other knives obsolete, but just creates a new tier for others to look in to.

[nullity]

Whatever type of knife you choose, simply know how to use it and it will never fail you.
Most of us don't even NEED a knife for everyday activities. (Open taped boxes with a key, open mail with your hand, etc.)
We carry a knife because we like knives.
Carry whatever makes you happy.

I like DRAMA as much as the next person, but even I am tired of this topic... :)

[dbcad]

I enjoy the topic :)

When a 3 or 4" folder becomes beefy enough to replace a fixed blade it must become very heavy. My examples are the Bradley and PPT which can be pretty beefy in the pocket. For me the PPT seems to carry a bit easier?? Lionspy must be the same. For me it's OK :)

The Superleaf seems to contradict a lot of that thinking. Hollow construction, skeletonized liners, great construction, and very nice choiled grip help it feel very rigid and strong while maintaining the 4mm blade width and keeping it relatively light :) Mine serves better as a rigid slicer :D

However if whatever the "hard use" might turn out to be involved torque on the pivot I would opt for the modified damascus Mule or another suitable tool :)

[Halfneck]

The hardest I ever uses a folder was a period of 6 years in my life working as an EMT and an Army Medic. My go-to folders involved a Spyderco Delica, Spyderco Remote Release, Benchmade CQC-7, and a Production Emerson CQC-7B. Lockbacks & liner-locks and never had a failure of any sort. In my day-to-day activities now I cut open envelopes, cord, and an occasional box. Even in all my years of camping I've never had a reason to baton a fixed blade, much less a folder. I have baton'ed a Mora Craftsman, but only to show the technique to someone. The tough overbuilt folders are cool, and break back some fond Army memories, but 1st & foremost I want my knives designed as cutting tools - all else is secondary.

[defenestrate]

My point is, knives are just inanimate objects. They're designed a certain way, and then the user decides to push the design to do a particular task. If the knife fails, i say the user failed the knife not the knife failed the user. I don't go around my house swatting flies with a sledge hammer, and i don't plan on batoning with my Ladybug any time soon.

I think you underestimate the satisfaction pursuant to the feeling of deanimating a pest with a sledge hammer.

[Spook410]

The real question is what are the real requirement that should flow to knifemakers? I don't really think there is as much need for long term wilderness survival and knives-as-weapons as would be indicated walking around the average knife counter.

OP wasn't snarky at all. We could have a lot more snarky fun with this topic than this.

[jvarn81]

We carry a knife because we like knives.
Carry whatever makes you happy.

This is it for me. Some days I don't even open the knife I carry. And I rarely have need for a hard use folder, probably a mini trapper slip joint would do 90% of what I need to do, that being said I have a Demko AD-10 ordered..... :p :D I just love knives.....the craftmanship, design, looks, pride of ownership, and just having it with me IF I need it.....I have the eternal knife fever. :)

[kbuzbee]

I think you underestimate the satisfaction pursuant to the feeling of deanimating a pest with a sledge hammer.

We're still talking flys here, right

Ken

[Sonny]

I don't "need" hard-use knives. I am carrying my Umnumzaan. Today I used it to cut open the thin plastic on a loaf of bread. I used it to cut open a multi-pack of beer/pop/water. Could almost use my fingernails to do the same thing. Almost. I have a new ZT 0550 and a new HEST 2.0 which are nice, but completely foreign to my needs. They'll go on the block soon. I've figured out that any folder that has a blade thickness greater than about 0.140" or a handle thickness greater than about 0.500" is not something I'll use a lot. I'm becoming more reasonable, but it takes some of the fun out of it.
Sonny

[Holland]

when i was just getting into knives i put a large emphasis on the hard use factor when buying knives. that changed fast after watching people try to slice food and whatnot with striders

[Exile.]

I don't mean to cause any dissent with this, :rolleyes: just putting my opinions out there for the heck of it. I totally agree with just about everyone on here btw. My feeling is just that "hard use" has almost become a requirement among many people. Spyderco is a company I've gravitated toward because they make a product that feels amazing in the hand and inspires confidence without bleeding my bank account dry and curling their Snydley Whiplash mustaches :D
And I know all the things I listed can be accomplished with a Ladybug. In fact almost all those things were accomplished by me with an absolutely garbage Gerber about the same size as a LB. However, I would expect neither knife to hold up to a steady diet of tough materials. I think alot of build quality and "toughness" comes down to how confident the user feels. And whether or not you like it.
The Axis lock is super strong, but I just listed my 551 Grip on CL because frankly I just don't dig the darn thing. I hate carrying it and it feels cheap and fake to me. Go figure haha.
I hope I'm not coming off as confrontational here, I just like to discuss these things. And if anyone thinks I'm full of you-know-what, feel free to say so. We're all friends in the knife world, right? :cool:

[chuck_roxas45]

when i was just getting into knives i put a large emphasis on the hard use factor when buying knives. that changed fast after watching people try to slice food and whatnot with striders

Why would you be slicing food with a strider? Kitchen knives work better for food.

Kitchen knives are cheaper too. :)

[Evil D]

When you have a headache, do you go to the pharmacy and ask for "the most mediocre lowest strength dose that might take this pain away"? No, you reach for "MAXIMUM STRENGTH". Who wants to carry around a knife that's labeled as "delicate use" when they can have "hard use"? The reality is, i can pick splinters and open mail and trim loose threads and cut a sandwich in half just as easily with a 1/4 inch thick slab of steel as i can a dainty 1.5mm blade, but can i stab a car door with that dainty blade? Nope. Sometimes in life, we just need to know that when the circumstances call for it, i can stab the crap out of that car door and not have to worry about it. It's door stabbing peace of mind.

[tvenuto]

It's door stabbing peace of mind.

Quote of the day.

When it comes to drugs, I go with the lowest effective dose. When it comes to door stabbing, I take no chances.

[dj moonbat]

Sometimes in life, we just need to know that when the circumstances call for it, i can stab the crap out of that car door and not have to worry about it. It's door stabbing peace of mind.

It's so true, what you say. I am interested in your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.