I think that much to the chagrin of both CEOs... Cold Steel and Spyderco have developed something of a rivalry. This is odd... insomuch as (other than the fact that both companies make knives) I doubt the two companies take much market share from each other. Cold Steel focuses more on tactical and heavy use equipment... which is probably what gives them the unfair rep as being the supplier to the "mall ninjas" of the world. Spyderco, I think, tends to market more towards people who don't require a knife designed for "tactical" purposes. For the record, my personal definition of tactical in this context is "a knife or tool designed for military or law enforcement personnel", not "a knife designed for use as a magical special forces throat slitting super ninja minikatana chainsaw" :p . The cold steel products that I own, admittedly mostly fixed blades, perform exceptionally to the tasks required by my work. The Spyderco products that I own on the other hand, perform exceptionally to the tasks required by my day to day life. Not to say that there isn't ANY crossover, of course, but that is pretty much the case.
Both companies do have one thing in common. They both have extraordinarily dedicated customers... a fact that probably has more to do with the friction between them than any advertising method. In my mind, that is a great thing. After all, the knife business would hardly be profitable without consumers that fervently believe in the products they support. If LT's advertising methods please his fan base, then they are good advertising methods... the first rule of the free market, that which works, is good. Those of us that disapprove have lots of other companiess to choose from whose business practices and advertising motif's differ.
Doc, for the record, I'd say the smart money is on you if you ever take the fellow up on the mortal combat... if you need a second, and Micheal Janich isn't available, I'm down :cool: .
As for the original inquiry... I think that Cold Steel tries as hard as they do to sell their knives because LT and his employees believe in their products, simple as that. They may seem a bit too... enthusiastic... by many standards, but from watching their videos and reading articles written by LT and his employees, it seems to be an enthusiasm borne of actual faith in the products mentioned therein. I admire that level of enthusiasm and confidence, and I would imagine that it is wonderful to work for a company that sells products that you believe in. I tip my hat to Cold Steel, it's founder, and it's employees for it. I, also, could do without being proselytized to... but that hasn't stopped me from buying those products of their's that I felt I could use.
Just my two cents :)
Cold Steel Knives, why so much hype?
I don't see how one can fault a company for being salesmen of their own products. They don't use all the exotic steels and materials that attract buyers to certain brands so they have to base their selling point on design, build and performance. Cutting off pig faces and stabbing car hoods may not represent real world uses for a pocket knife but it does make an impression when you see the over-the-top abuses they put their knives through. I think it also helps out in their more unconventional designs like the huuuge Espada or Rajah 2 because they are showing people that they aren't selling truck stop fantasy knives that you hang on the wall and never use. I'm personally not a big fan of several designs (ti-lite, voyage, spartan) but I have great respect for the recon1, AK and American Lawman 2010 designs.
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Franciscomv
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Their videos work on a certain crowd, most of the guys I train with love them. They see knives more as weapons than tools, and love the variety of SD designs Cold Steel offers. Since they consider their knives weapons, long term edge holding isn't much of an issue for them. Most of them aren't true knife junkies, only the instructors are (and they've got Spydercos, Benchmades, ZTs, etc. as well as CS knives).
Hotsoup, I hate the teflon coating as well. Luckily it takes all of 5 minutes to get rid of it. I used a Stanley knife and some paint remover. It removed the coating but didn't affect the markings on the tang. I didn't bother polishing up the blade, since my AL is a beater and the finish was good enough for this.
Hotsoup, I hate the teflon coating as well. Luckily it takes all of 5 minutes to get rid of it. I used a Stanley knife and some paint remover. It removed the coating but didn't affect the markings on the tang. I didn't bother polishing up the blade, since my AL is a beater and the finish was good enough for this.
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Fred Sanford
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I agree with a lot of the folks here. I never really get into the 'hype' of anything. I will say that I've owned a few CS knives and they make **** good solid lockback knives. Their Tri-Ad lock is really nice too. The blade coatings (if they are black) sorta don't stand up to much, but that doesn't bother me.
Personally I think the Cold Steel Voyager series in any size is a really good knife. Same with the Gunsite.
The only thing I don't like is that the clip screws are threaded into the FRN and strip out like mad. However I have a medium Voyager Clip point and I just removed the clip and throw it in my pocket. Great little knife.
Personally I think the Cold Steel Voyager series in any size is a really good knife. Same with the Gunsite.
The only thing I don't like is that the clip screws are threaded into the FRN and strip out like mad. However I have a medium Voyager Clip point and I just removed the clip and throw it in my pocket. Great little knife.
"I'm calling YOU ugly, I could push your face in some dough and make gorilla cookies." - Fred Sanford
Or as Carl Childers says "I like the way you talk" mmhuuh :DDr. Snubnose wrote:Seems like they don't like me talking bad about their products or should I say telling the truth about their products, cause I call em as I see em, and sometimes the truth hurts....That is not to say that I don't say good things about their products when I see they are warranted...but they like to hang on to the negative comments I make on the internet about their products, I guess negative things hold more power then positive things for most people. Hey If I don't like what I see or test that comes out of the Spyderco Factory, I open my mouth and say so, but the difference is Sal and Company listen, they may not agree with me 100%, but they process what I say and think about it logically without getting defensive. If they see merit in what I say, they go about improving their knives, if they don't agree or don't see any merit in my comments which might be negative, they ignore what I say and going about their business of making knives the way they want to. Never had I have anyone from Spyderco post a challenge on the forum for me to come down to Golden Colorado and duel it out in mortal combat with Sal, to prove my points, as was done by a CS employee on this forum in a related thread just about one month ago. So I can safely say that CS hates me, or at the very least thinks there is no value in anything I say...either positive or negative about their products. They just want me to keep my mouth shut and all is good....problem is...I'm not going to do that...so it creates a little tension or lets call it a bump in the road sometimes.....Doc :D
V8R
Opinions are like belly buttons most people have one:p
Opinions are like belly buttons most people have one:p
By saying "they made a quality knife" are you say, consciously or otherwise, that they no longer make a good knife?
I've owned a couple/few of their fixed-blades in the past and have had no problems. However, I think one can tell a lot about a company through their advertizing. In the case of cold steel, I feel as though I'm watching a Sham-Wow commercial. For me, this isn't appealing. Perhaps in my younger, more naive, days it would have appeal to me, but maybe that's why it's taken me so many years to developed the preferences in knives I now have.
It has been said that a man who lives in the swamp is often covered with mud. In my mind, the way CS conducts their advertizing is, in essence, like throwing mud on their own company image. In other words, I see their advertizing a hokey, and as such, am left to assume that their company is much the same. This might not be the case, but I'm not willing to put my hard earned money down to see for sure. I mean come on, , they sell a baseball bat named the "Brooklyn Smasher," and a battle-ax called the "War Hammer." Last I checked, the smasher isn't used in professional baseball, and this isn't the 13th century so there is no need for a 'war-hammer.' So are they marketing something for a genuine need, or to a thug who wants to beat someone with a bat or a mall ninja wanting to fantasize about medieval combat? On the other side of the coin, they are selling them, so I guess people are buying them.
I've owned a couple/few of their fixed-blades in the past and have had no problems. However, I think one can tell a lot about a company through their advertizing. In the case of cold steel, I feel as though I'm watching a Sham-Wow commercial. For me, this isn't appealing. Perhaps in my younger, more naive, days it would have appeal to me, but maybe that's why it's taken me so many years to developed the preferences in knives I now have.
It has been said that a man who lives in the swamp is often covered with mud. In my mind, the way CS conducts their advertizing is, in essence, like throwing mud on their own company image. In other words, I see their advertizing a hokey, and as such, am left to assume that their company is much the same. This might not be the case, but I'm not willing to put my hard earned money down to see for sure. I mean come on, , they sell a baseball bat named the "Brooklyn Smasher," and a battle-ax called the "War Hammer." Last I checked, the smasher isn't used in professional baseball, and this isn't the 13th century so there is no need for a 'war-hammer.' So are they marketing something for a genuine need, or to a thug who wants to beat someone with a bat or a mall ninja wanting to fantasize about medieval combat? On the other side of the coin, they are selling them, so I guess people are buying them.
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Dr. Snubnose
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Well, the triad looks like a cool lock, but the new knives i've handled were such a PITA to unlock that i wouldn't want to EDC one, unless it really breaks in and becomes easier to use over time. All the folders i've handled felt like they over tightened the pivot just to eliminate any blade play, which made the opening action anything but smooth, and forget about opening it with your thumb alone.
I'd say it's your typical "Ford vs. Chevy" thing with knife brands. CS fans are CS fans because that's what they have and that's what they love. Then there are people who buy based on hype and word of mouth. I won't lie, Spyderco is what i have and mostly all i'm interested in buying at this point, but that's based on what i've handled and the features i look for in a knife and not so much about the brand. I have owned a slew of other brands in the past, just not anything from CS. They just don't have much that interests me aside from one lock design, which by itself isn't enough to tempt me to buy a knife.
I'd say it's your typical "Ford vs. Chevy" thing with knife brands. CS fans are CS fans because that's what they have and that's what they love. Then there are people who buy based on hype and word of mouth. I won't lie, Spyderco is what i have and mostly all i'm interested in buying at this point, but that's based on what i've handled and the features i look for in a knife and not so much about the brand. I have owned a slew of other brands in the past, just not anything from CS. They just don't have much that interests me aside from one lock design, which by itself isn't enough to tempt me to buy a knife.
~David
There's a suit place in my neck-O-the-woods with this motto" " An educated consumer is our best customer". If you are a disciplined hunter of value who researches their purchases, you don't even look at the marketing/advertising shtick. IF YOU DO THAT, you'll see parts of their wide product line are outstanding values.ClusterFlux wrote:I recently received a Cold Steel catalogue with their promotional DVDs. I was astounded how hard they try to sell their knives, and how they rant about some amazing feature that no other knife can even come close to matching. I always feel like they're like a car salesman. I know everyone has different styles of selling stuff, but their approach has really put me off of their product. Does any one else have experience with Cold Steel knives? Do they really Live up to all the hype? :confused:
Buy the way, I don't mean this thread to be any sort of flame-fest against Cold Steel...
I think their hype approach stems from the big ticket item (swords) sales philosophy: To move product, you have to generate excitement plus prove why the price is justified. I think it's partially that plus wanting to get young or new to knives buyers (e.g. appeal past the traditional market) as advocates early on, so return sales come in.
All companies have a target market(s) and a marketing mix that they present to that market: Spyderco focuses on elitist/geek triggers in their marketing mix. By no means is that a knock, it's a smart identification of their target market and moves product, thus hitting great channel sales numbers. Think about it & think about a knife as a tool: A sub 3" blade like a Delica carries a MSRP of nearly $100, yet so many of us will bypass functionally equal "tools" at a fraction of that price to buy it! :D
No worries mate! :D
Elitist = wanting materials at the top of the performance charts
Geek = knowing what is at the tops of the charts and the charts themselves
Triggers = a combination of the above two that motivates a buy or at least a lusting for!
It's why we buy Spyderco (that build philosophy).....even when they deviate slightly (Example: I own & have gifted Cara Cara 2 in G10 and think it's a tremendous value)
Elitist = wanting materials at the top of the performance charts
Geek = knowing what is at the tops of the charts and the charts themselves
Triggers = a combination of the above two that motivates a buy or at least a lusting for!
It's why we buy Spyderco (that build philosophy).....even when they deviate slightly (Example: I own & have gifted Cara Cara 2 in G10 and think it's a tremendous value)
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delicafreak
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to me, cold steel is kinda like a "bang for the buck" kinda thing. (400$ swords excluded) i have a 4.5 in spartan that i got for 50 dollars. ands its a great knife. I will be buying more CS products in the future
it all started november 2010.. now Im up to 16:spyder:'s and 2 BYRD's and still, theres many more to come. thanks sal :p:D HUGE thanks to my dad for my newly accuired Orange manix 2!:D
I despise cold steel serrations. I love my 2-handed Kukri machete, and the old voyager line were all very good knives IMO, the 5" clip point plain edge voyager is my favorite "large" folder (5" and up I consider large). They make some really nice Bowie Knives and large fixed blade kukri's. I have yet to really try a triad lock but I am looking for a decent price on a Rajah I (like my brothers which I used to cut my wedding cake)
Some of their "proof" videos are silly but some are impressive. I've tried and like the cold steel warhammer, bad axe, and boar spear...the torpedo might be the easiest throwing weapon in the world and the true flight thrower is my favorite throwing knife ever. They make the most deadly throwing stars I've seen produced. Thats some of what I "know" about cold steel.
No they aren't the best, but there are few companies that cater to the large folder crowd, and all that I've used have been quality products in my experience.
But there's a reason you'd find about 2000% more spydercos in my knife box than any other brand... :)
Some of their "proof" videos are silly but some are impressive. I've tried and like the cold steel warhammer, bad axe, and boar spear...the torpedo might be the easiest throwing weapon in the world and the true flight thrower is my favorite throwing knife ever. They make the most deadly throwing stars I've seen produced. Thats some of what I "know" about cold steel.
No they aren't the best, but there are few companies that cater to the large folder crowd, and all that I've used have been quality products in my experience.
But there's a reason you'd find about 2000% more spydercos in my knife box than any other brand... :)
Let's please keep this clean! :)
The best answer is that is the sales tactic Mr Thompson uses. Obviously it works very well for them! Despite some opinions of it they are actually quite innovative and aggressive in the approach.
Personally I can't get behind many of the products. That's just a personal choice just like I don't dig Harley bikes. I think they make some very cool fixed blades but for the money I'd prefer Spyderco.
The best answer is that is the sales tactic Mr Thompson uses. Obviously it works very well for them! Despite some opinions of it they are actually quite innovative and aggressive in the approach.
Personally I can't get behind many of the products. That's just a personal choice just like I don't dig Harley bikes. I think they make some very cool fixed blades but for the money I'd prefer Spyderco.
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jabba359
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MEAT BIKE!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
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But seriously, I just discovered that they're having a parking lot sale (like Spyderco's seconds sale) in May and it's only 40 miles from where I live. I may have to see if I can get a good deal on a Gurkha Kukri or the cheaper, plain ol' Kukri. I wouldn't feel bad about destroying the cheap one in the woods. A Trail Boss might be a nice low-cost camping ax as well.
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But seriously, I just discovered that they're having a parking lot sale (like Spyderco's seconds sale) in May and it's only 40 miles from where I live. I may have to see if I can get a good deal on a Gurkha Kukri or the cheaper, plain ol' Kukri. I wouldn't feel bad about destroying the cheap one in the woods. A Trail Boss might be a nice low-cost camping ax as well.
Those G4 skit goofs are classic!! :D
Let's face it - Thompson became a viral video superstar with the vid on their version of a Claymore sword ( the hand and a half). A beer barrel sized middle ager in a shirt & tie cutting carcasses with a huge sword!?! :eek: Gen Y lives for that stuff!
The swords are actually high value & quality - I own a katana. Don't forget that there are "competitive cutters" out there looking for real swords, martial practitioners and just "geeks" who want a real one not a wall hanger. To cut green bamboo and the type of tatami ( diff. sizes & some with a core to simulate bone), you need a real tool.
Their Kukri machete is the best....it made short work of trees on my property that my heavy axe was a hump to use.
Let's face it - Thompson became a viral video superstar with the vid on their version of a Claymore sword ( the hand and a half). A beer barrel sized middle ager in a shirt & tie cutting carcasses with a huge sword!?! :eek: Gen Y lives for that stuff!
The swords are actually high value & quality - I own a katana. Don't forget that there are "competitive cutters" out there looking for real swords, martial practitioners and just "geeks" who want a real one not a wall hanger. To cut green bamboo and the type of tatami ( diff. sizes & some with a core to simulate bone), you need a real tool.
Their Kukri machete is the best....it made short work of trees on my property that my heavy axe was a hump to use.