Boston Municipal Code 16-45

[brandonreed2008]

I didnt see anyone post on the "what have you cut today" a response saying: "another human being" !

It's not everyday you have to defend yourself. Some drunk came at me with a broken bottle for absolutely no reason and all I had to do is pull out my endura wave. He didn't hesitate to leave. Just seeing the knife is enough (most of the time). I say always be prepared, there are some crazy people out there. I'm not in Boston but if I were I would still have a knife on me out of sight mainly because I'm not old enough to conceal carry yet (don't know the gun laws over there) But that's just me.

[The Deacon]

I don't mind laws like this too much, it's enforcement that will make it a bad or good thing. (And I know I'm going to take some heat for this one but: if I can't come up with a good reason to carry a millie... maybe I shouldn't carry one...)

What strikes me as funny is that is code could be read as "so long as the knife is less than 2.5", you can carry it whenever you like." I know that you wouldn't be able to use the municipal code in that way in a courtroom, but it's an example of the backward way a criminal justice system works: rather than setting out a standard of reasonable behaviour, it only tells you which things specifically you can't do--and when they get tired of trying to figure out all of the specifics, the laws turn into generalities. (Like "don't carry knives" and "never exceed the posted limit" and "no open flame in this apartment.")

I tend to agree. We are talking a city, and densely populated areas often have rules which sparsely populated ones do not.

As for your reading, that's pretty much what it is saying. A knife with a blade 2.5 inches long, or less, which is not illegal under state law requires no justification in Boston. Above 2.5 inches, even if it's "state legal" you need a reason to have it on your person or readily available in your vehicle while in Boston. That's where enforcement can make the difference between it being reasonable or unreasonable.

[noddy]

[quote="iwolf81"]

Got to be Mitchum's best film. It is the one that made me watch all his other films :)

btw - 2 1/2" is stupid

[Clawhammer]

"b) In going directly to and/or returning directly from such activities, or..."

That's the clincher right there. Regardless of what this municipal code says, you are actually allowed to stop and buy fuel, bait, food etc along the way and going home. If an officer were to ask, then that's what you're doing. We live in Liberal Democracies, not police states!

As we've seen here in Australia, although those that ENFORCE such laws may disagree, it's those that APPLY these laws whom have the final say, and are generally less passionate, more even handed and better educated in matters of justice.

But the main point is to not get noticed in the first place... if you're not behaving like a clown or scaring people or otherwise attracting attention to yourself, you could just as easily be walking around with an AK47 or a teddybear up your jumper (well, nearly as easily).

[feeny]

It's not everyday you have to defend yourself. Some drunk came at me with a broken bottle for absolutely no reason and all I had to do is pull out my endura wave. He didn't hesitate to leave. Just seeing the knife is enough (most of the time). I say always be prepared, there are some crazy people out there. I'm not in Boston but if I were I would still have a knife on me out of sight mainly because I'm not old enough to conceal carry yet (don't know the gun laws over there) But that's just me.

I hear you and understand - and I'll bet on that very day of such an unfortunate incident, that there would have been a whole lot of other things you might have also used your endura for too - which were in fact the more likely reason for carrying it in the first place - on the balance of probabilities of course !

[brandonreed2008]

the balance of probabilities of course !

I agree with that but I just like to consider every situation. Even if I am going somewhere that I know forsure I won't need to defend myself I bring a knife because who knows I might come across an accident or maybe be in one myself. Cut the seatbelts if I need to or maybe clothing is snagged on something so cut that. I carry a small SE for everyday tasks and have a big knife lurking around my back pockets kept super sharp that is strictly for self defense. But anyways I feel sorry for the people of Boston. Seems these laws always start out this way and eventually move to no knives at all

[JacksonKnives]

...you are actually allowed to stop and buy fuel, bait, food etc along the way and going home. If an officer were to ask, then that's what you're doing. We live in Liberal Democracies, not police states!

I think that's a bit of a contradiction, though: in a (fairy-tale) liberal democracy, people behave in a more-or-less benevolent way at all times, because they understand that what's good for everyone else is also good for them. Laws are only required to prevent people from abusing one another.

As soon as we say "I can get around this unreasonable restriction because of a technicality," we've given up our freedom and accepted legalism in its place. Legalism of the worst kind, too: we trade freedom to do what we need to do for legal power to get around the things that hold us back.

That's the first step toward a police state. The other step is when the law enforcement/military starts playing the same game from the other end--both in permitting people to break the rules, and in breaking the rules themselves. Again, trading freedom for power: "I have the power, as a police officer, to make this ticket go away because I'm being nice today" rather than "you have the freedom to drive in a responsible manner, and I recognize that you are doing so."
Knife carry restriction is on the bleeding edge of this line. If we agree with size limits, we've agreed with people who say "big knives are more dangerous" (and as devotees of the Little Big Knife we all know how wrong that is.) If we agree that we should be able to carry knives when we're going to and from "certain jobs or tasks" then we've agreed that any other kind of knife carry is unreasonable (and I'm pretty sure most of us here would like to continue EDCing.) Skirting these laws by making smaller blades that do the same things as big blades will keep us on the "legal" side of the line, but it doesn't do anything to change the flawed premise of the law. (And I mean no disrespect to Sal or anyone at Spyderco; I appreciate the slipit philosophy for what it is. In a perfect world, though, we shouldn't need it.) Breaking the law by using false excuses actually makes the problem worse--you've changed yourself (in the eyes of the law) from someone who was breaking the law to someone who is evading enforcement of the law he is breaking. I have to admit that I'd come up with a dozen reasons I was carrying a knife if I were required to (and thank God we don't in Canada yet) but the feeling that came along with that wouldn't be "freedom."

[Clawhammer]

Jackson Knives, I totally agree with you. These laws are the thin edge of the wedge! They are an assault on your freedom, particularly in a country that was built on such. The practical problem is that these laws are springing into 'being' without a vote or public debate. Furthermore, there is no uproar whe they are inacted. Apathy reigns supreme.

The general population are now less educated than their parents and grandparents, sure they can program a DVD recorder and order online products through Amazon, but they can't recognise through history, the ramifications of such laws. They're just mindless tax paying consumers, zoned out on their laz-e-boy recliners watching daytime TV like zombies, pacified.

This is the same populace that have been brainwashed into BELIEVING that global climate change is their responsibility... that bailing out dodgy companies with federal tax dollars is right, that printing trillions of new dollars will fix the economy, that 9/11 was conducted by Afgani sheep herders...

Can you wait for them to wake up?... have you got the energy to waste getting them on their feet, re-educating them? In the meantime, life will be passing you by ... and all you had to do was not attract attention to yourself. And yes, I know it's a cop out, but what can you do about it?

[Dr. Snubnose]

I wonder how much the late Ted Kennedy had to do with these restrictive Bostonian laws on the books these days...well If I ever go to Boston I'll quess I'll have to drive off that bridge when I get to it....opps...must remember my shiny footprints thingy..... :o Doc :o

[feeny]

isn't this forum great in so many ways! [not a trace of sarcasm at all - i'm serious!]

[Clawhammer]

isn't this forum great in so many ways! [not a trace of sarcasm at all - i'm serious!]

I can't tell, are you being sarcastic about not being sarcastic? :p

[brandonreed2008]

The great people on this forum make it a great forum! :)

[LorenzoL]

I guess that's why it's called New England.

[JacksonKnives]

The practical problem is that these laws are springing into 'being' without a vote or public debate. Furthermore, there is no uproar whe they are inacted. Apathy reigns supreme.

Another problem is the "quick fix" attitude of the people who *do* get angry enough to act.

Last year we had a rash of stabbings in Edmonton, and the mayor started talking about having his lawyer "look at possible solutions" to the "problem" of "large knives." He then suggested that kitchen knives be blunted... Luckily there are enough sane people around that he was forced to shut up about it within a week. That wasn't a solution to the problem, though, just the elimination of one easy/false solution.

The real solutions will involve *everyone* taking responsibility for the state of our communities--that is, for the care of the people around us. It feels like pie-in-the-sky when you look at how far we have to go as a neighborhood/town/city/region/nation/world, but if you stop to think about how you can make a difference for individual people around you you might be surprised at the extent of the change you can make.
(Okay, that's sounding preachy again...)

You guys are right, this is a great forum! Keep EDCing, keep using your little big knives to make a difference! Sooner or later, you'll prove to someone that it's better to be a rational being than a sheep.

[MCM]

Funny, it seems the most violent places have the most strict laws.

To me, just the opposite makes more sense.

But what do I know...........

[JNewell]

Funny, it seems the most violent places have the most strict laws.

To me, just the opposite makes more sense.

But what do I know...........

You are right.

Probably more than you think, or realize...certainly more than some other folks who consider themselves smart, very smart, smart enough that they will tell you what is best for you...

[feeny]

The ludicrousness of these laws is ... thus:

Today I was out with a group of friends.. no-one had any EDC today, it was a mixed group, few couples, babies, kids etc. Lovely day, lovely weather, free trade festival.

Then:
- a clamshell needed to be opened
- a kid wanted a balloon cut from its nylon tether to a post
- Someone wanted to cut the crossword from the paper
- An old lady walked into a glass wall thinking it was an exit and opened a 2" gash on her eyebrow... I wanted to cut a clean section from one of the babies cloths to make her a decent absorbing bandage... instead she made do with toilet paper that was just messy whilst we waited with her 15 mins for first aid.

Ludicrousness. Maybe the clam shell felt safer this way...

[The Deacon]

The ludicrousness of these laws is ... thus:

Today I was out with a group of friends.. no-one had any EDC today, it was a mixed group, few couples, babies, kids etc. Lovely day, lovely weather, free trade festival.

Then:
- a clamshell needed to be opened
- a kid wanted a balloon cut from its nylon tether to a post
- Someone wanted to cut the crossword from the paper
- An old lady walked into a glass wall thinking it was an exit and opened a 2" gash on her eyebrow... I wanted to cut a clean section from one of the babies cloths to make her a decent absorbing bandage... instead she made do with toilet paper that was just messy whilst we waited with her 15 mins for first aid.

Ludicrousness. Maybe the clam shell felt safer this way...

I'm not saying I "approve" of the Boston law, or any other knife law for that matter, but to play devil's advocate here, assuming you mean a clam pack and not a real clam, was there any one of those tasks which could non have been performed quite adequately by a 2.5" bladed folder? I know there aren't any I'd feel under equipped to deal with if all I had with me was a Kiwi. In fact, even if I had a larger one with me as well, I'd probably have used the Kiwi anyway.

[bluemist]

you can't have peace without morality you can't have morality without truth... and truth is that this law won't do jack **** to reduce violent crime.. any debate about it is hot air.

I'm willing to bet the strongest supporters of this restriction are exempt.

it is your choice to obey it or break it, I for one would be willing to accept the consequences of ignoring it... on principle

[brandonreed2008]

you can't have peace without morality you can't have morality without truth... and truth is that this law won't do jack **** to reduce violent crime.. any debate about it is hot air.

if anything it will increase crime. It's like they really do not care about us.