Liner Locks

[noddy]

(Military 2?) I hope he considers putting the compression lock on it, a la Paramilitary.

Wouldn't that be a thing :)

[FLYBYU44]

I don't have a problem with liner locks. I've never owned a Spyderco one, but I've owned several Kershaw and a Emerson with liner locks, they all worked very well.

[JCMED]

I don't personally mind liner locks. That being said, I don't think they are the best locking mechanism there is out there. They are just easier to close. I have found though that the caged ball lock, with a tiny bit of practice, is just as easy to close and far more powerful lock with less chance of wear as the liner lock. I don't necessarily disagree with you Jay_Ev about the Millie II having a comp lock but how about a caged ball lock?

[The Deacon]

Somebody might have mentioned this before (...maybe even in this thread) - anything requiring such a positive lock probably merits a fixed blade.

Problem is, carrying a fixed blade is not always legal. Even where legal, it's not going to be as convenient since, for any given blade length, a fixed blade will be longer than a folder. Then there's the counter argument that with a fixed blade there's always some risk of the blade puncturing the sheath. Even with that, out in the wilderness, a fixed blade often is the most sensible choice. But in more civilized settings there's a lot to be said for a good folder. One which stays open when you expect it to, and stays closed when you expect it to.

[catamount]

Being left-handed, I used to dislike liner/frame locks. The problem is, :spyder: keeps coming out with great designs that use them (Barong, Sage, Rocklobster, Chokwe).

I found that closing them left-handed isn't a problem. I just flip the knife over in my hand, and press the spine against my leg or some other convenient surface. Having said that, I am very much looking forward to the Lefty Milli.

[RazorSharp86]

I've had some bad experience with Emerson liners and some Benchmade liner-locks. Otherwise, my Spyderco liners are all top notch. The Military model can rival many framelocks and backlocks for strength.
I also am a lefty, and find NO problems to operate a linerlock.

Spyderco, keep 'em coming!

[Clawhammer]

Just my opinion, but there seems a trend of people getting the Military despite it's linerlock. Maybe a 'Millie' sized folder with a lockback would fill a niche? :)

[FLYBYU44]

Just my opinion, but there seems a trend of people getting the Military despite it's linerlock. Maybe a 'Millie' sized folder with a lockback would fill a niche? :)

Probably not since one of the main benefits of the Military design is a big knife in a lightweight package. Putting a backlock in it would make it significantly heavier then it is now.

[markg]

I had a CRKT M-16Z close on my hand and I came pretty close to loosing a finger some years ago.

I was cutting bicycle inner tubing to use as grips and the slight sideward force placed on the knife by the rubber and a slightly worn lock caused the knife to close and bite, and bite hard it did.

It closed so hard that it binded and I needed a pair of pliers to get it off me so I could go to the emer room. Took some stitches and a little physical therapy but it's all good now.

For years after this I SWORE off the liner lock. I have leaned up on that though and realized that just like anything, it can be executed poorly or done well. I feel the liner locks provided by Spyderco fit the bill of well executed and I feel safe using them. YMMV.

The above post points out the double whammy of liner lock failure. What causes liner locks failure is more than likely going to also cause a catastropic failure that can lead to serious injury. Poking, stabbing, twisting of the knife. This is often done under significant force and little room for correction when things go wrong.

Because of this, if I carry a liner lock, I limit blade length. 3 to 3.25 is about the max I like to carry. Four inch and over simply magnifiies the mechanical forces at work that causes lock failure, and simple blade inertia if the lock fails.

Liner locks are simple locks that can be made by custom and semi-custom knife makers and companies. More complex locks require out source machined parts that would no longer make the knife a "custom."

They are also simple and cheap enough that they are the choice for "cheap" imports. These lesser quality knives flood the market with the knives that give the lock such a bad rap. As noted there are good liner locks and bad ones.

If you carry a liner lock know how it works, when it is worn, if it is broken in, and how to safely monitor lock health

[noddy]

I quite agree - and tend to only use longer folders for making dinner when away or out and about - or for cleaning

Because of that I actually prefer a feebler feeling knife, with some flex in it, so I am permaently reminded of the possibility of it going wrong. I am very squeamish about this

[Blerv]

I've had some bad experience with Emerson liners and some Benchmade liner-locks. Otherwise, my Spyderco liners are all top notch. The Military model can rival many framelocks and backlocks for strength.
I also am a lefty, and find NO problems to operate a linerlock.

Spyderco, keep 'em coming!

I completely agree.

With much of the bad rep from poor liner locks from other companies at least with Spyderco makes solid ones. My Lum Chinese Folder and Captain are impressive. The Lum is obviously lighter duty and is probably the easiest lock to disengage of my knives but still locks up very secure. The Captain is extremely beefy and while may not be a ball/compression lock it's sure not a slip joint. One hand closing is a breeze but as with all liner locks you just have to think before you out-run your thumb. :)

I'm less picky on the lock with Spyderco and more picky on the blade/handle philosophy. If a $50 Delica's lock will hold over 100 pounds/inch of torque then a Military, Barong, etc (regardless of it's lock design) is over engineered for my hands.

[v8r]

I think the key to a good liner lock is the way the lock surface is ground.I have noticed that the militaries I own have a arc on the lock surface.My Impala also has the same.I feel this is a better design than the typical flat angled grind.It seems like the knives that I have that have the flat angled grind seem to wear more quickly than the ones that have the arc grind.I don't know if I am right, but it just seems this way to me.I can't stand it when the lock is nearly touching the opposite side scale.There is no room for wear at this point.I like to use my knives, not just look at them.It is important that they last a while, because I will be honest in that I don't really gravitate towards the cheaper models.So to this point I want a well engineered lock with good strength and wear resistance.It may not make a real difference in the real world, but sometimes piece of mind isn't such a bad thing. ....Liner locks are still not my favorite. :)

[Halfneck]

My biggest complaint on most liner locks is the large cut-outs to access them. Why do I need a half-quarter size area for my thumb to close one? I've had only a few situations where I needed a knife open fast, but don't foresee any where I'll need to close one fast.

As for liner locks failing, I've only had one that had that happen to - and only if the pivot was loose. My old (circa 2000) Emerson CQC-7 started to close on me while I was sawing through some heavy cardboard while moving in a curving pattern. Combination of the movement and a loose pivot, tightened it up and no problems. Of course I later sent it off to be modd'ed with thicker liners & green canvas Micarta.

I have a Strider GB that the liner is so thick & well fitted, it's like a frame-lock. Love that knife, but it's a beast & not always practical to carry. I also have an Emerson EDC Tanto that I love the fact that the liners are almost flush with the scales.

The past Spyderco liner locks I have own have all been well made & I had no worries about them failing. Usual reason a liner lock fails is it is not well made or fitted - something I don't sweat with Spyderco. The only reason I don't have any Spyderco liner locks now is personal preference & the models that interest me have a large cut-out. Only reason I have never owned a Military is because of the large cut-out. Granted I have been tempted to get one & have it modd'ed with custom scales with a minimal cut-out. Now that a frame-lock is coming out I will get that. My favorite Spyderco liner lock was the Jot Singh Khalsa, I just liked how the liner access was unobtrusive.

Of course most of my daily cutting chores can be done with a slipjoint - and I have done them with an Wharncliffe Urban. :D Maybe it's just the Scout in me (Be Prepared) that just wants to make sure my knife is up to whatever emergency task I might need one for. :spyder:

[Jay_Ev]

My biggest complaint on most liner locks is the large cut-outs to access them. Why do I need a half-quarter size area for my thumb to close one?

I take it you haven't handled the Captain :D
It has almost no cutout to access the lock.
Very cool knife though

[yowzer]

I take it you haven't handled the Captain :D
It has almost no cutout to access the lock.
Very cool knife though

The Barong doesn't have a cutout either.


Personally, while I wish all of Spyderco's liner lock models used compression locks instead, the ones I've used have all been nice and secure.

The only liner locks I've had fail have been in very cheap knives. In one notable case, the liner wouldn't even spring into position on its own...

[NoFair]

Never had a bad Spyderco liner lock. It is probably my favorite lock type (Millies, CF Sage, Viele) along with the framelock on the RIL Sage. The main reasons are how quickly and easily I can close it and easy of cleaning.

Some of the newer Spyderco liner locks are harder to use (barong) and won't be bought.

[jezabel]

I had a similar experience with a small CRKT M16 a couple of years ago. Which luckily didn't result in any serious injury although it did seriously hamper my confidence in liner locks. Never again I said.

After reading countless reviews about the Millie and it's locks reliability I eventually caved in and purchased a second hand SE 440V Millie. At the time I wasn't overly impressed, while the the blade was in near perfect condition the lock felt sloppy like it had been subjected to a lifetime of constantly being flicked open. After a teardown and a small adjustment of the eccentric pivot the lock was as good as new again.

Still a bit concerned about handle flex of this single liner version I needed to test this lock out before it saw any serious work duty. Having just done the grocery shopping earlier that day I decided to test this out on a medium sized pumpkin which needed to be quartered to fit in the fridge.

Holding the the knife vertically I pushed the blade straight down into the center of the pumpkin, then while "white knuckling" the handle with a "fair amount" of force applied I pushed the blade around to 90 degrees. At this point the blade was firmly lodged in the pumpkin, no give, wiggle or any other tell tale sign of lock problems could be detected. I pushed the blade though the rest of cut with no problems. The second cut cut was done in the same fashion but with one stroke. On opening up the pumpkin it was a joy to see the pumpkins seeds all perfectly split in two.
This Millie was definitely coming to work with me. :D

Any way all this is far from scientific testing, however this was enough proof for me that Spyderco produces a good liner lock.
Since that first test ( only a few months ago), this SE Mille has seen literally thousands of cuts (sometimes several hundred in a day), it's regularly caked up in mud and soil, sees multiple rinses in water throughout the day and every night is washed in hot and soapy water then gets sharpened and oiled.
Not once has this lock ever hinted at failing.

My 2cents

Jezabel

[Jazz]

Farmerbrown, in the CITY that I live, I would look like a doofus AND a psyco if I carried a fixed blade - honestly, who CAN carry one - I'd like to know. Not dissin' you or anyone, but a fixed blade stands out too much (in this here day and age) in the city (and Lethbridge, Alberta isn't that big)... hence the need for a RELIABLE locking folder. Simple as that. :)

- best wishes, Jazz.

[RazorSharp86]

Jazz, I carry a fixed blade at all times, in addition to my large folder.
Even though I live in Toronto.
Some fixed-blades out there are very light, comfortable to carry and conceivable.
Although I trust all locking mechanisms made by Spyderco, all locks are mechanical devices, and all mechanisms may and will eventually fail, break or wear down. Can't say the same about a fixed-blade.

[The Deacon]

Jazz, I carry a fixed blade at all times, in addition to my large folder.
Even though I live in Toronto.
Some fixed-blades out there are very light, comfortable to carry and conceivable.
Although I trust all locking mechanisms made by Spyderco, all locks are mechanical devices, and all mechanisms may and will eventually fail, break or wear down. Can't say the same about a fixed-blade.

Sure they can, although it's reasonable to say it happens less often. The failure modes are just different. Really cheap fixed blades, and in some cases expensive but poorly made customs by makers who assume their knives will be wall hangers, occasionally break at the tang. But the more common failure mode would be sheath failures which expose the edge, and the user to injury by the edge. For example, a neck knife which falls out of it's sheath and is roaming around loose inside your shirt.