Mark,mark greenman wrote:You’re right; in hindsight I should have prefaced my post with a "IMO." My tests were far from a scientific or definitive, and they should not be taken as the final word on the SD potential of the ATR. Likewise, I agree that skill level plays a very important role- I've carried a knife for the last 15 years, but have 0 martial arts training with them. Given your high level of training and experience, I wouldn't be surprised if your results were dramatically more effective.
That being said, I test all of my folders the exact same way to asses, as best I can, their penetration and slashing capabilities. For the slash test, I just hold a thick dish towel in my left hand, and give it a straight down swipe with my right at ~15% power for me (I do perfect pushups, but I'm not super jacked or anything, I'm sure others 15% is far more significant.)
For penetration tests, I take 6 pack of paper towels, place it in a chair, sit in a chair opposite, and thrust straight forward at ~20-25% power (once again, ymmv.) If results are lackluster in that test, I'll place a single roll on the ground and try a icepick thrust at similar power to see how that fares.
Now, when I conducted these tests, I really, really, really wanted the ATR to do well, since it is a beautiful knife with unparallel construction in my collection. Unfortunately, tested against my entire collection, the ATR did the worst. It snagged violently on the dishtowels, and, try as I might, it just crushed the rolls of towels, rather than piercing it. Now, given your extensive background, I'm sure you could dispatch an opponent with a broken coffee mug or sharpened toothbrush. But, given my lack of background, I want every "edge" I can muster, and for me, the ATR's performance simply didn't cut it for EDC/SD. I really wish it did, but it doesn’t.
I value your opinion, so if there is something I'm missing here, or some sort of wrist motion/ other technique that could improve my results, I would love to know.
Take care,
Mark
For you, you may very well be better off with some of your other knives. Individual movement patterns, idiosyncrasies, and personal "feel" all come into play. In general, I prefer plain edge knives for SD myself. That being said, there are probably quite a few technical points that could help you. It really isn't all in the wrist, but the wrist, elbow, shoulder, spine, and pelvis all have parts to play. There are multiple methods of generating power on a cut and many methods of increasing "edge contact" (i.e. making the most of the edge by making sure it spends the maximum amount of time in contact with the target and inflicts the longest and deepest possible cut). One thing that helps with both power and edge contact is to relax the wrist a bit. Have a good grip on the knife, but do not try to choke it to death. Do not lock the wrist and tense the elbows and shoulders. Strike from a relaxed posture and tense a bit only at the moment of contact, letting the wrist roll a bit at contact if need be to maintain the edge in contact with the target as the knife continues to move in a path along the target. Good cutting technique generally involves movement and joint rotation in three dimensions, and a lot of people start out really working in two dimensions, making their techniques "flat." In fact, one of the ways to spot a "journeyman (if that)" level knife combatives teacher (and there are a lot of these guys selling videos these days) is a tendency to be "flat," to utilize a favorite angle or strike even when something else would be more appropriate, and to be a bit stiff. Their footwork usually isn't that good either. I hope this helps a bit.
I suggest trying some of this with empty hand (slap instead of cut) on a heavy bag and then maybe use a training blade, if it wasn't too unintelligible, that is. In any case, your question has given me an idea or two. I really think I am going to go do a more "slow and instructional" video for my site on accessing a folder, deploying the blade in various ways and from various grips, and then get into the mechanics of some cutting and thrusting. This ties in with a recent request to do some basic work with Ed Schempp's Kris, as I can "kill two knife videos" with one.
Oh, by the way, I don't need a sharpened toothbrush to take out a bad guy, a standard, blunt brush works just fine :p . Granted, when I find the guy who takes me out using just one bristle from the toothbrush, I'm going to study with him for the next 20 or so years... :D